Moses

It is clear from the Archive that Egypt was overlord of Canaan.    This was the state of affairs from the current dynasty, into the 19th dynasty.    When the Egyptian king Ramses II battled Muwattalis,the Hittite king at Kadesh, it was clear that Ramses had possession of all the territory to the south of Kadesh.   The evidence from the Egyptian inscriptions suggest that the Egyptians remained in possession of Canaan until at least 1200 BC.   Unlike what my debating partner would suggest, Solomon's kingdom could not have existed during the Amarna period or afterwards.   The narrative of the rule of Solomon suggests that he had a full-blown empire stretching from Egypt all the way to the Middle Euphrates river.    He received tribute from Damascus and Hamath and was on par with the Phoenicians.   This could not have happened during the Amarna Period or the time of Ramses II.   The chronology of the kings of Israel and Judah make it quite clear that the rule of Solomon occurred during the 10th century BC (at least during the period, c. 970-930 BC).  The story of Moses would have occurred prior to the Conquest which probably occurred by about 1200 BC.    Moses would have lived prior to that time during the 13th century BC.

I have tried to post some quality evidences but you always wrongly just trash/evade/ignore/dismiss/deny them. I am tired of you(s) wrongly always (lying and) making yourselves out to be all-right gods and us to be just all wrong dogs.  I have to accept that i can't beat such subtly cunning tactics /power, and so you "win" and i am leaving. You can everyone else can believe the elite's lies, you can believe/claim i am wrong/bad/dumb/inferior. Someday the "experts" will be forced to acknowledge their lies/wrongs. (Though I am aware that the elite have sometimes changed and falsely claimed/implied that the credit for the good/right was theirs, but they can't keep up evil for ever.)
You win. I can't beat you. But the liars will fall some day. Somewhere in the universe they will come up against a force/power superior to their cunning evil tactics. 




Edited by Arthur-Robin - 16-Sep-2018 at 06:14

Am trying to more better solve the Mesopotamian king lists pattern/code that we showed seems present in them.

Pairs/groups of reign years that add up to same:

Shu-Ilishu (10 years)
Iddin-Dagan (21 years)
Ishme-Dagan (19/20 years)
Lipit-Ishtar (11 years)

Sumulailum (35/36)
Zabum (14)
Apil-sin (18)
Sin-muballit (20/30)
35 & 14 = 18 + 30.

Kurigalzu II (22/25)
Nazimaruttash (26)
Kadashman-Turgu (18)
Kadashman-Enlil (11/15)
Kudur-Enlil (9/6)
25 & 26. 26 & 18 + 9. 18 = 11 + 6/9.

Meli-Shikhu/Melishipak (15)
Marduk-apla-iddina (13)
Zababa-shuma-iddina (1)
Enlil-nadin-akhe (3)
15 & 1 = 13 & 3.

Marduk-kabit-ahheshu (18)
Nebuchadnezzar I (22)
Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)
Adad-apla-iddina (22)

Nebuchadnezzar I (22)
= Enlil-nadin-apli (4)
+ Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)

Nabonassar (14 yrs)
Nabunadinzur (2 yrs)
Ukinzer & Pulu/Tiglathpileser 3 (5 yrs)
Ululai/Shulmaneser 5 (5 yrs)
Mardukappaliddin/Merodachbaladin (12 yrs)
2 + 5 + 5 = 12. 14 = 2 + 12?

Kandalanu (22)
+ Nabopolasar (21)
= Nebuchadnezzar (43)

Adad-apla-iddina (22)
= Marduk-ahhe-eriba (1)
+ Marduk-zer-..... (12)
+ Nabu-shumu=libur (8)

Enlil-nasir II (6 years)
Ashur-nirari II (7 years)
Ashur-bel-nisheshu (9 years)
Ashur-rim-nisheshu (8 years)

Ashurnadinahhe 2 (10 yrs)
+ (Eriba-adad 1, 27 years)
= Ashur-uballit I (36)

Ashur-dan II (23)
Adadnirari II (21)
Tukultininurta 1  (7)
Ashurnasirpal/Asnapper 2 (25)
Shalmaneser 3 the Great 853  (35)
23 & 21 (3 excess remainder), 7-&-25 & 35 (3 less)

Adadnirari 3 (28)
= Shalmaneser 4 (10)    
+ Assurdan 3 (18)

Shamsiadad 5 (13)
+ Adadnirari 3 (28)
= Semiramis 3 (42)

Possible reduplications/repetitions of same sequence of kings names:

Adadnirari 3
Shalmaneser 4
Assurdan 3

Adadnirari 1
Shalmaneser 1

Ashurrisheshi 2
Tiglathpileser 2

Ashurrisheshi 1
Tiglathpileser 1

Ashurnirari 3 (6)
Ashurnirari 4 (6)

Adadnirari 1
Tukultininurta 1
Ashurnasirapli/Ashurnadinapli

Adadnirari 2
Tukultininurta 2
Ashurnasirapli 2

The Assyrian king list has 5 Shalmanesers, 5 Shamsiadads, 5 Assurniraris, which i am inclined to wonder if some are same persons.

In the 2 sections of Assyrian and Babylonian lists that you posted the Assyrian one ad 26/27 kings while the Babylonian one had 42 kings which is quite abit more. In the 42 Babylonian kings list there are  3 13 yrs, 4 18 yrs, 3 22 yrs, 4 3 yrs, 3 6 yrs, 2 1 yrs, 2 8 yrs, 2 15 yrs, which surely could possibly indicate some sort of artificial pattern/code (as our lists already also showed). So the experts can not longer claim their lists totalings are valid chronological data, they now have to re-examine their lists and solve the pattern/code. It certainly looks like there are pairs (or groups) of kings through out the lists, and this may lower the totals. When the full answer is proven i can see the orthodox chronology ascribed dates being revised with David likely being about the time of Amarna like we have tried to show from evidences.

I am not "grasping at straws". I often find quite stark evidences. The problem is you/they refuse to accept or even consider any evidences and you just keep asserting that things supposedly can't/don't match in dates (according only to your lists) and playing unfair tactics and not giving any real chance consideration. (Look all through this thread you have just attacked and trash even considering possibility only because you keep asserting the dates supposedly can't/don't match in your/their artificial lists. You haven't give our possibilities any fair consideration or interest you just outright assert the dates different.)

There is only 3 possibilities either (1) i am wrong, or (2) you are lying, or (3) yous/they are wrong/mistaken.
I am certain i am not wrong about our Egyptian-Biblical-Mesopotamian chronology being much more closer to truth than yours/theirs because i have seen heaps of evidences that the orthodox dates are wrong because the times don't match evidences and sources like the bible, and other times do match.
You are either lying or wrong/mistaken. I have already given half a dozen different ways the Assyrian king lists can be wrong but you just ignore or dismiss or deny anything and everything and keep asserting that you/they are gods and i am just some dumb dog. I have tried but yous keep playing unfair tactics. So I have to accept that i just don't have the ability to prove which and how yous/they and/or their/your lists are wrong/lying. I know people always believe you/them and not our evidences. So you win i give up and accept yous rule the world and i can't beat you. I hope you are happy, and i hope everyone is happy to believe the elites lies. I am leaving because there is no hope or point to debating in forums if i am always beaten by unfair tactics and if we are just supposed to all accept the ruling views/opinions and are not allowed to investigate alternative theories.

In leaving i post this last evidence on your holy-cow lists:
I have already said that the problem with the lists are they don't prove that all the dynasties and kings reigns are all totally correct in orders and lengths without any overlaps or coregencies or reduplications etc.
You tried to dismiss by say i not proven any co-regencies. But the burden/onerous is on yous/them because there could be and is likely to be (considering Judah and Israel at the time has proven ones). Yous only consider your vertical additions of hundreds of kings reigns (which is problematic having such large number) and you ignore that the horizontal matches do not match in many places (evidencing yous have the wrong ascribed dates). My mathematics is not brilliant so i not sure i am able to figure out the solution to Assyrian kings list, but i post below an exmple that there does seem a pattern of pairs (or more) of kings throughout the Mesopotamian king lists from Uruk 1 to Assyrian 5. I checked in Egyptian lists to make sure whether it is a natural coinidence or not. It occurs a little in the Egyptian sometimes but does not seem to occur as much as in the Mesopotamian ones, and the Mesopotamian ones seem more consistent and strong.

In these lists i separated into dynasties which your list(s) deceptively hid.
My numbers and Greek letters on the right try to show you the regnal years pairs pattern and/or the kings names pairs pattern. In some places i have tried to show where two or more regnal years added together match a regnal years before or after. There does seem a pattern of pairs of kings/reigns, though i might possibly be not quite have got the correct exact pattern. So it is my own opinion that you/they can no longer assert that the king lists are reliable, because there does seem a pattern of pairs of kings which has to be fully explained.

Please note that my own added numbers (and Greek letters) on the right are only code numbers not dates or orders.  Each number and Greek letter are just way of trying to show pairs. Each number / Greek letter in each dynasty is showing pairs of years or names. Eg in Akkad dynasty two kings have 56 years and i show the pair by writing beside both of them the same code number/numeral/letter "one". Two kings have 15 years.
Everywhere where i found alternating pairs of same/close reigns years or kings names i show by giving the two a same letter/number/numeral different to others in the dynasty.
Alot of similar regnal years are 1 or 2 years out but there are tons of such pairs of similar regnal years that it must be a real man-made pattern.
So where ever you see my numbers/numerals/letters on the right you look for the other partner(s) same number/numeral/letter of the pair and then look to see that the kings with same letter/number have a same/similar years or name as each other.
For the names elements similarities/pairs note that some are cases of same first letter not whole name elements.

Akkad:
Sargon/Sharrukin (55/56 years)        one
Rimush/Alusharshid (9/15 years)    two
Manishtusu (15/7 years)        two/four
Naram-Sin (37/56 years)        one
Shar-kali-sharri (24/25 years)        three
Igigi, Nanum, Imi, Elulu (3 years)
Dudu (21)                three
Shudurul (15)            four

Uruk 4:
Urniginak (3/30)        (alpha)
Urgigirak (6/15)    two/one    (alpha)
Kudda (6)        one/two
Lugalmelam (7)    two/one
Puzurili (5)    one/two
Urutuk (6/25)    one/two

Gutium:
Erridpizir (33 yrs)
Imta (3/5)            zero/one
Inkishush (6/7)        zero/one
Sarlagab (6 years)        one
Shulme/Yarlagash (6 years)    one
Elulumesh/Silulumesh (6/7 years)    one
Inimabakesh (5 years)    one
Igeshaush/Igigi (6 years)    one
Yarlagab (3/15 years)        two
Ibate (3 years)        two
Yarla/Yarlangab (3 years)    two
Kurum (1 year)
Apilkin (3 years)
La-erabum (2 years)
Irarum (2 years)
Ibranum (1 year)
Hablum (2 years)
Puzur-Suen (7 years)        five
Yarlaganda (7 years)        five
Sium/lost  (7 years)    five
Tirigan (40 days)

Uruk 5 : Utuhegal (7 years)

Ur 3 123 yrs
Ur-Nammu/Uruashzikum/Urbagas (18 yrs)      four?    (beta)
Shulgi/Dungi (48/58 years)            (alpha)
Amar-Suen/Bur-sin (9/25 years)        one    (beta/delta)
Shu-Sin/Gimil-sin (9/16 yrs)    one/two/four    (alpha/delta)
Ibbi-sin (15/25/24)            two/three    (delta)

Isin:
Ishbi-Erra (33 years)            (delta?)
Shu-Ilishu (10 years)        one
Iddin-Dagan (21 years)    two    (alpha)
Ishme-Dagan (19/20 years)    two    (alpha/delta?)
Lipit-Ishtar (11 years)    one    (gamma)
Ur-Ninurta (28 years)        (beta)
Bur-Sin/Amar-sin (21/22 yrs)    (beta)
Lipit-Enlil (5 years)        (gamma)
Irra-imitti (8 years)
Enlil-bani (24 years)
Zambiya (3 years)        three
Iter-pisha (3/4 years)        three/four
Urdukuga (3/4 years)        three/four
Sin-magir (11 years)
Damiq-ilishu (23 years)

Larsa:
Naplanum (21)
Emizum (28)    five/six?
Samuum (35)
Zabaa (9)        four
Gungunum (27)    three/five
Abisare (11)    four
Sumuilum (29)    three
Nur-adad (16)        (gamma)
Sin-idinnam (7)    two    (alpha)
Sin-iribam (2)    one    (alpha)
Siniqisham (5)    two    (alpha)
Zilli-adad (1)    one    (gamma)
Warad-sin (12)        (beta)
Rim-sin/Eri-aku (30/60/61 yrs)    (beta)

Babylon 1 (Old Babylonian) :
Sumuabum (14/15)        four    (omega)     (Shem?)
Sumulailum (35/36)        three?    (omega)
Zabum (14)        four
Apil-sin (18)            (zeta)
Sin-muballit (20)            (zeta)
Hammurabi (30/43/55 years)    two/three    (alpha) (Abraham?)
Samsuiluna (35/38 years)    one    (alpha/delta)
Abi-Eshuh (25/28 years)     zero/six/two?    (beta)
Ammiditana (25/37 years)    zero/one    (beta/gamma)
Ammisaduqa (21/22)            (beta)
Samsuditana (26/31)        six    (gamma/delta)

Sealands 1 / Babylonian:
Ilumailum (60)            six (a)
Ittiilinibi (56)            six (b)
Damiqilishu (16/22)            four/five
Ishkibal (15)            five
Shushshi (24)            four
Gulkishar (55 years) c 1595-1575    one (b)
Peshgaldaramesh (50 years)        one (a)
Ayadaragalama (28 years)        two
Akurduanna (26 years)         two
Melamkurkurra (7 years)        three
Eagamil (9 years)            three

Kassites 1 / Babylonian: (regnal years)
( Gandhe/Gandash (16)     (Gudea?)
Agum 1 (12/22)        zero
Kashtiliash 1 (22)        zero
Ushshi (8)
Abirattash
Kashtiliash 2
Urzigurumash
Kharbashikhu
Tiptakzi )
Agum II/III c 1575 BC
Burna-Buriash I        (beta?)
<a missing king>
Kashtiliash III
Ulamburiash        (beta?)
Agum III c. 1455
<a missing king>
Kadashman-harbe I        (alpha)
Karaindash c. 1410        (alpha)
Burna-Buriash II (29) c 1365-30 bc
Karakhardash (less than a year)        one

Kassite 2 dyn / Babylon:
Nazibugash (less than a year)        one

Kassite 1 dyn / Babylon:
Kurigalzu II the younger (22/25)            two (a)
Nazimaruttash (26)            two (b)
Kadashman-Turgu (18)        three (b)
=
Kadashman-Enlil (15)        three (a) / five?
/ Kadashman-harbe (11)
+
Kudur-Enlil (6/9)            four
Shagarakhti-Shuriash (13)        five
Kashtiliash IV (8)            four/six?

Assyrian dyn / Babylon:
under Tukulti-Ninurta I of Assyria (7)    six/seven

Babylonian dyn:
Enlilnadinshumi (& Kadashmankharbe) (1/2/3)    eight?

Kassite 3 dyn / Babylon:
(Enlilnadinshumi &) Kadashmankharbe (1/2/3)    eight?
Adad-shuma-iddina/Adad-nadin-shumi (6)        seven/eight?

Kassite 1 dyn / Babylon:
Adad-shuma-usur/Adad-shumuli-nasir (30)
Meli-Shikhu/Melishipak (15)        nine (a)    (omicron)
Marduk-apla-iddina (13)        nine (b)    (zeta/omicron)
Zababa-shuma-iddina (1)        ten (a)    (zeta)

Kassite 4 dyn / Babylon:
Enlil-nadin-akhe (3)            ten (b) *

Pashe / Ur/Isin 2 /Babylonian : (regnal years)
Marduk-kabit-ahheshu (18)        twenty (a)?
Itti-Marduk-balatu (8)        eleven
Ninurta-nadin-shumi (6)        eleven/twelve
Nebuchadnezzar I (22)        twenty (b)?
=
Enlil-nadin-apli (4)            twelve
+
Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)        twenty (b)?
Marduk-shapik-zeri (13)        thirty

Aramean dyn / Babylon:
Adad-apla-iddina (22)        twenty (a)?
=
Marduk-ahhe-eriba (1)
+
Marduk-zer-..... (12)            thirty
+
Nabu-shumu=libur (8)

Sealands 2 / Babylon 5: (regnal years)
Simbar-Shikhu (18)
Ea-mukin-zeri (5 mos.)        thirteen
Kashshu-nadin-akhi (3)        fourteen

Bazu / Babylon 6: (regnal years)
E-ulmash-shakin-shumi (7/17)        fifteen
Ninurta-kudurri-usur (3)        fourteen
Shirikti-Shuqamuna (3 mos.)        thirteen/sixteen?

Elamite / Babylon 7: (regnal years)
Mar-biti-apla-usur (6)            fifteen

Babylonian 8 : (regnal years)
Nabu-mukin-apli (36)   
Ninurta-kudurri-usur II (8 mos.)        sixteen
Mar-biti-ahhe-iddina (lost)        seventeen?
Shamash-mudammiq (lost)        seventeen?
Nabu-shuma-ukin (lost)        seventeen?


Kassites 1 / Babylonian: (names)
Gandhe/Gandash (16)     (Gudea?)
Agum 1 (12/22)        zero
Kashtiliash 1 (22)        zero
Ushshi (8)
Agum III c. 1575 BC
Burna-Buriash I        (beta?)
<a missing king>
Kashtiliash III
Ulamburiash        (beta?)
Agum III c. 1455
<a missing king>
Kadashman-harbe I        (alpha)
Karaindash c. 1410        (alpha)
Burna-Buriash II (29) c 1365-1330 bc
Karakhardash (less than a year)        one?

Kassite 2 dyn / Babylon:
Nazibugash (less than a year)        two

Kassite 1 dyn / Babylon:
Kurigalzu II (22)            one?
Nazimaruttash (26)            two
Kadashman-Turgu (18)        three
Kadashman-Enlil (15)        three/four
Kudur-Enlil (9)            four/three?
Shagarakhti-Shuriash (13)
Kashtiliash IV (8)

Assryian dyn / Babylon:
umder Tukulti-Ninurta I (7)   

Babylonian dyn:
Enlilnadinshumi (& KadashmanKharbe) (3)

Kassite 3 dyn / Babylon:
(Enlilnadinshumi &) KadashmanKharbe (3)
Adad-shuma-iddina (6)        five

Kassite 1 dyn / Babylon:
Adad-shuma-usur (30)        five
Meli-Shikhu (15)            six?
Marduk-apla-iddina (13)        six/seven?
Zababa-shuma-iddina (1)        seven?

Kassite 4 dyn / Babylon:
Enlil-nadin-akhe (3)

Pashe / Ur/Isin 2 (Babylonian) : (names)
Marduk-kabit-ahheshu (18)        eight?
Itti-Marduk-balatu (8)        eight?
Ninurta-nadin-shumi (6)        nine/ten?
Nebuchadnezzar I (22)        nine?
Enlil-nadin-apli (4)            eleven/ten?
Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)        twelve/eleven
Marduk-shapik-zeri (13)        twelve
Adad-apla-iddina (22)

Aramaean/Babylonian dyn:
Marduk-ahhe-eriba (1)        thirteen
Marduk-zer-..... (12)            thirteen

Isin 2 / Babylon:
Nabu-shumu=libur (8)

Sealands 2 / Babylonian : (names)
Simbar-Shikhu (18)
Ea-mukin-zeri (5 mos.)        fourteen?
Kashshu-nadin-akhi (3)

Bazu/Babylonian: (names)
E-ulmash-shakin-shumi (7)        fourteen?
Ninurta-kudurri-usur (3)        fifteen?
Shirikti-Shuqamuna (3 mos.)

Elamite/Babylon 7: (names)
Mar-biti-apla-usur (6)            fifteen/sixteen/nineteen?

Babylonian 8: (names)
Nabu-mukin-apli (36)            eighteen/seventeen
Ninurta-kudurri-usur II (8 mos.)        eighteen/sixteen?
Mar-biti-ahhe-iddina (lost)        nineteen?
Shamash-mudammiq (lost)
Nabu-shuma-ukin (lost)


Assur/Assyrians: (regnal years)
Puzur-Ashur III (14/24 years)    thirty
Enlil-nasir I (13 years)    thirty/twenty
Nur-ili (12 years)        twenty
Ashur-shaduni (1 month)
Ashur-rabi I (0/25)                   fifty                             Ashur-nadin-ahe (0/25)    fifty
Enlil-nasir II (6 years)    thirty/forty (a)
Ashur-nirari II (7 years)    thirty/forty (b)
Ashur-bel-nisheshu (9 years)    forty/thirty     (a)    (alpha)
Ashur-rim-nisheshu (8 years)    forty/thirty     (b)    (alpha)
Ashurnadinahhe 2 (10)
+
(Eriba-adad 1, 27 years)
=
Ashur-uballit I (36) (Amarna)    thirteen
Enlil-nirari (10)        twelve
Arik-den-ili (12)        twelve
Adad-nirari I (32/33)        eleven/thirteen?
Shalmaneser I (30)        eleven
Tukulti-Ninurta I (37)
Ashur-nadin-apli (3/4) (during)    ten
Ashur-nirari III (6)        ten

Asshur 2 dyn:
Enlil-kudurri-usur (5)        ten

Calah/Assyrians/Ashur 3: (regnal years)
Ninurta-apil-Ekur 1 (3/13)
Ashur-dan I--------------| (46)    nine
Ninurta-tukulti-Ashur--- |-(46/half)
Mutakkil-Nusku----------|    nine
Ashur-resha-ishi I (18)    eight
Tiglathpilieser I (39)
Ashared-apil-Ekur (2)    six
Ashur-bel-kala (18)        four/seven/eight?

Ashur 4 dyn:
Eriba-Adad II (2)        five/six

Ashur 3 dyn:
Shamshi-Adad IV (4)    five
Ashurnasirpal I (19)        four/three?
Shalmaneser II (12)        three?
Ashur-nirari IV (6)        two
Ashur-rabi II (41)
Ashur-resha-ishi II (5)    two
Tiglathpileser II (32/33)
Ashur-dan II (23)        one
Adadnirari II (20/21) (J(eh)oash)  one
Tukultininurta 1/2 [Toi?] (7)
Ashurnasirpal/Asnapper 2 (25)
Jehu/Omri -- Shalmaneser 3 the Great 853 [Hadadezer?] (35) (alpha)
Shamsiadad 5 (13)    (alpha)
+
Adadnirari 3 (28) (Joash) 911    (beta/gamma)
=
Semiramis 3 (42)
Shalmaneser 4 (10)    zero    (alpha)
Assurdan 3 (18)        (beta)
Assurniari 5 (10)    zero    (beta/gamma)

Assur/Assyrians: (names)
Puzur-Ashur III (14/24 years)    thirty
Enlil-nasir I (13 years)    thirty/twenty
Nur-ili (12 years)        twenty
Ashur-shaduni (1 month)
Ashur-rabi I (0/25)                   fifty                             Ashur-nadin-ahe (0/25)    fifty
Enlil-nasir II (6 years)    thirty/forty
Ashur-nirari II (7 years)    thirty/forty
Ashur-bel-nisheshu (9 years)    forty/thirty        (alpha)
Ashur-rim-nisheshu (8 years)    forty/thirty        (alpha)
Ashurnadinahhe 2 (10)
+
(Eriba-adad 1, 27 years)
=
Ashur-uballit I (36)        fifteen
Enlil-nirari (10)        sixteen/fifteen
Arik-den-ili (12)        fifteen
Adad-nirari I (33)        sixteen/fifteen
Shalmaneser I (30)
Tukulti-Ninurta I (37)
Ashur-nadin-apli (4)        thirteen
Ashur-nirari III (6)        thirteen/twelve?

Ashur 2 dynasty:
Enlil-kudurri-usur (5)        twelve?

Calah/Assyrians/Ashur 3: (names)
Ninurta-apil-Ekur (13)    eleven
Ashur-dan I--------------|    (eleven/nine?)
Ninurta-tukulti-Ashur--- |-(46)    eleven
Mutakkil-Nusku----------|
Ashur-resha-ishi I (18)    nine?
Tiglathpilieser I (39)
Ashared-apil-Ekur (2)    eight/nine?
Ashur-bel-kala (18)        eight/seven?

Ashur 4 dynasty:
Eriba-Adad II (2)        six/seven?

Ashur 3 dynasty:
Shamshi-Adad IV (4)    five/six
Ashurnasirpal I (19)        four
Shalmaneser II (12)        five
Ashur-nirari IV (6)        three/four
Ashur-rabi II (41)        two/three
Ashur-resha-ishi II (5)    two/one?
Tiglathpileser II (33)
Ashur-dan II (23)        zero/one?
Adadnirari II        zero
Tukultininurta 1 [Toi?]
Ashurnasirpal/Asnapper 2
Jehu/Omri -- Shalmaneser 3 the Great 853 [Hadadezer?] (35) (alpha)
Shamsiadad 5 (13)    (alpha)
+
Adadnirari 3 (28) (Joash) 911    (beta/gamma)
=
Semiramis 3 (42)
Shalmaneser 4 (10)    one    (alpha)
Assurdan 3 (18)        (beta)
Assurniari 5 (10)    one    (beta/gamma)

Nineveh/Neo-Assyrians/Ashur 5:
(Jeho)ahaz/Omri -- Tiglathpileser3/Pul 745 (19)  three  (beta)
Shalmaneser 5 (5)            (alpha/beta)
Sargon 2 705 (Tartan?) (17)    three    (alpha)
Hezkiah -- Sennacherib 681 (Ululai?) (23)    (alpha)
Esarhaddon (13)    two?        (gamma?)
Ashurbanipal/Asnapper 663 (Pul?) (42)    (gamma)
Assuretililani (4)    one        (gamma)
Sinsarraishkun (10)    two?        (alpha?)

Harran/Assyrians:
Assuruballit 2 (4)    one        (gamma)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 20-Aug-2018 at 10:01

I will not give in to such little quality and quantity evidence. That is only *one* (or few) evidence(s) which itself can (and evidently must) be wrong (i have already listed many possible ways it could be wrong). Yous have hardly any much other evidences reasons and yous ignore many counter evidences.
How dare you falsely make us out to be worse than i really am and others to be more gods than they really are.

Ok here is a maybe possible solution to the Assyrian kings reigns total. Adadnirari of ca "900" bc was contemporary of Jehoash/Joash. We ourselves are fairly certain that David was a conptemporary of Amarna letters which are synchronised as contemporary with Middle Assyrian king Ashuruballit. Yous insist that their dates can't match because the compiled list of Assyrian kings between Adadnirari and Ashuruballit claims to have 24 kings for an added-up total of 454 yrs (making Ashuruballit "1300s" bc). We are pretty certain we are right that David was around about time of Ashuruballit, and it seems sure there must be and is implied to be some sort of problem with the Assyrian kings list. We gave alot possible examples of how the list might be wrong (including coregencies, different cities/dynasties, etc) but you dismiss them [as if the experts have accounted for them]. If we accept that the list worked out by experts is right and doesn't have any dynasties overlaps then the problem must be with the years or kings/reigns (co-regencies/overlaps). There is maybe one possibility: The difference between your "1300s" and our/bible's 1000s/900s dates is about 200/300/400 years. The total of the section Assyrian kings we are dealing with claims to have 400 years. If we half the Assyrian total we have a subtotal that would agree with a ca 200 years difference. There are 26 kings between the first and last king in the king list section. The king lists of Judah and Israel had 20 kings each between first and last king, plus David and Solomon is 22, which is about the same number as the Assyrian one. The 20 Judah kings are in a longer length of time than the 20 Israel kings (proving that number of generations can be deceptive), and the Assyrian kings are abit more number kings in slightly shorter period. If we half the number of Assyrian kings it might fit/work. Egyptian had a cattle count "year" of 2 years; Sumerians had a "double hour" of 2 hours (like a dog-watch). Now what if instead of double years the Assyrians had two not one contemporary/consecutive eponyms/limmus for/in each year (perhaps one beginning and one ending at differnt times)?
Quite a few nations of the time had double kingship (eg Rome, Sparta, Atlantis, Saxons, Surya/Chandra, Zoan/Noph, Judah/Israel). The bible says "kings (plural) of the Assyrians". (Two sons of Sennacherib?) The king list would show alternating double eponyms/limmus/kings. This would half the Assyrian king list number of kings and total years without any serious major conflict? It might also offer a solution to that "There are sometimes too many or few limmu for the length of a king's reign and sometimes the different versions of the eponym list disagree on a limmu." Or an alternative possibility is that since they dated events by kings years then we have a different calendar for each king and these could/might overlap (like for example similar to the differnce between year of Caesar and year of Jesus and year of Herod)?
The only other solution i can see (apart from many ones already given  which you might have wrongly dismissed/denied) is that Asnapper might be Ashurnasirpal rather than Ashurbanipal?
If you contend that none of them are possible then either you are wrongly falsely denying/rejecting one of the numerous possible solutions i gave or else there is still some other solution we not yet seen/shown (because there is not doubt to me that the orthodox dates are wrong because they conflict with various evidences in sources like the bible).

You/they are either wrong or lying but i don't have the resources etc to be able to show exactly where the (artificially compiled) lists are flawed. (Btw difference between 26 Assyrian and 39 + 2 Babylonian kings is slightly significant?) I can only show that yous are wrong to place such weight on such few and such flawed "proofs".
I will not give in to pressure/intimidation of "authority". I will continue to speak/seek the truth regardless of how much people unfairly/untruly try to make us look/seem falsely look wrong and make themselves look falsely right. Experts/elite can be wrong or lying. "Non experts" can be right. They are not gods and we are not just all/always wrong dogs. That they never admit we are right/good about anything but only always attacking us making us out to be all/always wrong proves they are subtly/cunningly ingenuine.

I have analysed some Mesopotamian kings lists and have found a seeming pattern of pairs or more of kings/reigns through alot of the Mesopotamian lists. It seems real though i am not totally sure it is not mistaken. I have used your two excerpt king lists sections to try illustrate to you and others the pattern:

Assyrian king list reigns numbers pattern:

Adadnirari II (20)        one
Ashur-dan II (23)        one
Tiglathpileser II (33)
Ashur-resha-ishi II (5)    two
Ashur-rabi II (41)
Ashur-nirari IV (6)        two
Shalmaneser II (12)        three?
Ashurnasirpal I (19)        four/three?
Shamshi-Adad IV (4)    five
Eriba-Adad II (2)        five/six
Ashur-bel-kala (18)        four/seven/eight?
Ashared-apil-Ekur (2)    six
Tiglathpilieser I (39)
Ashur-resha-ishi I (18)    eight
Mutakkil-Nusku----------|    nine
Ninurta-tukulti-Ashur--- |-(46)
Ashur-dan I--------------|    nine
Ninurta-apil-Ekur (13)
Enlil-kudurri-usur (5)        ten
Ashur-nirari III (6)        ten
Ashur-nadin-apli (4)        ten
Tukulti-Ninurta I (37)
Shalmaneser I (30)        eleven
Adad-nirari I (33)        eleven/thirteen?
Arik-den-ili (12)        twelve
Enlil-nirari (10)        twelve
Ashur-uballit I (36)        thirteen

Babylonian king list reigns numbers pattern:

Burna-Buriash II (29) c 1365-30 bc
Karakhardash (less than a year)        one
Nazibugash (less than a year)        one
Kurigalzu II (22)            two (a)
Nazimaruttash (26)            two (b)
Kadashman-Turgu (18)        three (b)
Kadashman-Enlil (15)        three (a) / five?
Kudur-Enlil (9)            four
Shagarakhti-Shuriash (13)        five
Kashtiliash IV (8)            four/six?
under Tukulti-Ninurta I of Assyria (7)    six/seven
Enlilnadinshumi & Kadashmankharbe (3)    eight?
Adad-shuma-iddina (6)        seven/eight?
Adad-shuma-usur (30)
Meli-Shikhu (15)            nine
Marduk-apla-iddina (13)        nine
Zababa-shuma-iddina (1)        ten
Enlil-nadin-akhe (3)            ten
Marduk-kabit-ahheshu (18)
Itti-Marduk-balatu (8)        eleven
Ninurta-nadin-shumi (6)        eleven/twelve
Nebuchadnezzar I (22)
Enlil-nadin-apli (4)            twelve
Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)
Marduk-shapik-zeri (13)
Adad-apla-iddina (22)
Marduk-ahhe-eriba (1)
Marduk-zer-..... (12)
Nabu-shumu=libur (8)
Simbar-Shikhu (18)
Ea-mukin-zeri (5 mos.)        thirteen
Kashshu-nadin-akhi (3)        fourteen
E-ulmash-shakin-shumi (7)        fifteen
Ninurta-kudurri-usur (3)        fourteen
Shirikti-Shuqamuna (3 mos.)        thirteen
Mar-biti-apla-usur (6)            fifteen/sixteen?
Nabu-mukin-apli (36)   
Ninurta-kudurri-usur II (8 mos.)        sixteen
Mar-biti-ahhe-iddina (lost)        seventeen?
Shamash-mudammiq (lost)        seventeen?
Nabu-shuma-ukin (lost)        seventeen?

Babylonian king list names:

Burna-Buriash II (29) c 1365-1330 bc
Karakhardash (less than a year)        one?
Nazibugash (less than a year)        two
Kurigalzu II (22)            one?
Nazimaruttash (26)            two
Kadashman-Turgu (18)        three
Kadashman-Enlil (15)        three/four
Kudur-Enlil (9)            four/three?
Shagarakhti-Shuriash (13)
Kashtiliash IV (8)
umder Tukulti-Ninurta I (7)   
Enlilnadinshumi & KadashmanKharbe (3)
Adad-shuma-iddina (6)        five
Adad-shuma-usur (30)        five
Meli-Shikhu (15)            six?
Marduk-apla-iddina (13)        six/seven?
Zababa-shuma-iddina (1)        seven?
Enlil-nadin-akhe (3)
Marduk-kabit-ahheshu (18)        eight?
Itti-Marduk-balatu (8)        eight?
Ninurta-nadin-shumi (6)        nine/ten?
Nebuchadnezzar I (22)        nine?
Enlil-nadin-apli (4)            eleven/ten?
Marduk-nadin-ahhe (18)        twelve/eleven
Marduk-shapik-zeri (13)        twelve
Adad-apla-iddina (22)
Marduk-ahhe-eriba (1)        thirteen
Marduk-zer-..... (12)            thirteen
Nabu-shumu=libur (8)
Simbar-Shikhu (18)
Ea-mukin-zeri (5 mos.)        fourteen?
Kashshu-nadin-akhi (3)
E-ulmash-shakin-shumi (7)        fourteen?
Ninurta-kudurri-usur (3)        fifteen?
Shirikti-Shuqamuna (3 mos.)
Mar-biti-apla-usur (6)            fifteen/sixteen/nineteen?
Nabu-mukin-apli (36)            eighteen/seventeen
Ninurta-kudurri-usur II (8 mos.)        eighteen/sixteen?
Mar-biti-ahhe-iddina (lost)        nineteen?
Shamash-mudammiq (lost)
Nabu-shuma-ukin (lost)

Assyrian king list names:

Adadnirari II        zero
Ashur-dan II (23)        zero/one?
Tiglathpileser II (33)
Ashur-resha-ishi II (5)    two/one?
Ashur-rabi II (41)        two/three
Ashur-nirari IV (6)        three/four
Shalmaneser II (12)        five
Ashurnasirpal I (19)        four
Shamshi-Adad IV (4)    five/six
Eriba-Adad II (2)        six/seven?
Ashur-bel-kala (18)        eight/seven?
Ashared-apil-Ekur (2)    eight/nine?
Tiglathpilieser I (39)
Ashur-resha-ishi I (18)    nine?
Mutakkil-Nusku----------|
Ninurta-tukulti-Ashur--- |-(46)    eleven
Ashur-dan I--------------|
Ninurta-apil-Ekur (13)    eleven
Enlil-kudurri-usur (5)        twelve?
Ashur-nirari III (6)        thirteen/twelve?
Ashur-nadin-apli (4)        thirteen
Tukulti-Ninurta I (37)
Shalmaneser I (30)
Adad-nirari I (33)        sixteen/fifteen
Arik-den-ili (12)        fifteen
Enlil-nirari (10)        sixteen/fifteen
Ashur-uballit I (36)        fifteen

 ------

Further development on from Sisera/Seqenenre post (which relates to Moses' chronology by being close in time) :

Abimelech and Ahmes possible match?

If Sisera is Seqenenre, then Abimelech of Judges 9 is possibly either Apepi or Ahmes/Ahmose 1 or Ahmes/Ahmose son of Ebana. Abimelech was one of 70 children of Gideon/Jerubbaal. He got himself made a king and ruled Shechem for 3 years and the city was involved in a siege/battle during this time, and he was at a place called Thebez and died from a woman dropping a stone on his head from top of tower (similar to Sisera had been slain by woman Jael piercing his head with a tent peg and hammer). There are similarities with Egyptian history where Sharuhen/Sherohan city was taken by Egyptians after a 3 years seige, which camapign both Ahmes 1 and Ahmes son of Ebana were prominently involved in. Ahmes son of Ebana had about 7 brothers/siblings? Ahmes was the 1st king of the new 18th dynasty at Thebes. The name Ah-mes might be a similar name to Abi-melech via corruption or pun or poetic alteration. Ahmes mummy possibly may possibly have evidence of having died from something dropped on head from a height?

"The mummified head of Ahmose I"
"Around his neck a garland of Delphinium flowers had been placed. The body bore signs of having been plundered by ancient grave-robbers, his head having been broken off from his body and his nose smashed."
"The body was 1.63 m in height. The mummy had a small face with no defining features, though he had slightly prominent front teeth...."
"...he was of medium height, as his body when mummified measured only 5 feet 6 inches (1.68 m) in length, but the development of the neck and chest indicates extraordinary strength. The head is small in proportion to the bust, the forehead low and narrow, the cheek-bones project.... The face exactly resembles that of Tiûâcrai [Seqenenre Tao] [Sisera]...."
"... likely to have been in his mid-30s when he died."
"... the craniofacial morphology of the two mummies are quite different. [to Seqenenre's who he was supposed to resemble]"

Not sure if the Ahmes body does have possible evidence of something dropped on them, and even if there might be such features that could possibly match it might not be the same because the English translation says Abimelech's was crushed "to pieces" while Ahmes' is not in pieces. However, the translation might not be so simple and it is possible that "pieces" means his head was broken off like Ahmes head is. (Though the book i have here seems to claim it was broken off sometime later/after when was a mummy.



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 19-Aug-2018 at 12:52

Okay I am just an all wrong dumb dog slave and you/they are all right gods  and i bow and worship you.
You are "science" "archaeology" and i am dumb/wrong dog.
I hate myself and i hate you/them.
Yous are lying and cunningly twisting but i don't have the time and health and ability and situation and resources to beat you. No matter what stark evidences yous always cunningly subtly still make it falsely seem like yous are "science" and we are bad/dumb dog. The tactics are always so cunning and subtle that i can't find how to beat them.
I am not wasting anymore of my time. Yous win i can't beat your cunning dirty (but falsely appear to not be bad but be good) tactics.
I have to accept that i can't beat you no matter what because yous have too cunning tactics.
Some day some where some how in the next thousand years you/they will fall and everyone will know you/they were wrong/bad. But i the mean time i have to accept that yous rule the world with cunning etc. (I will never accept personal physcial slavery but i have to accept i am wasting my time trying to win against such cunning subtle etc tactics of people who rule the world and control everything).
I will post in my blog instead where you/they can't post lying replies.

Yous claim you are right but yous can  not prove many things in your own chronology:
yous admit there is not trace of Joshua's Jericho in the level you claim he was in. But oh no you are "science" and "archaeology" etc.
yous often say "we can find no trace of Joseph and Moses" in Egypt in the times you assert they were in.
Yous claim Moses was 1300/1200s bc yet Bible says 480 years before Solomon.
They say that "Shishak's campaign doesn't match Sheshonk's".
Yous admit you can't reconcile Thera's archaeological and carbon dates, and yet oh no we are "science".

Yous can't prove your biblical and Egyptian/Mesopotamian matches.


 

Originally posted by Sharrukin And here is exhibit A.   You took a narrative which clearly took place in northern Canaan regarding a general of a Canaanite king from a different period than Seqnenenre Tao, a KING of Egyptian Thebes in the late 17th Dynasty who was the father of Ahmose, the founder of the 18th Dynasty, more than 200 years before the Tell Amarna Archive.    In the first instance, it was the narrative was Canaanites vs. Israelites during the judges period c. 1200-1000 BC.   The second was Egyptians vs. Hyksos, c. 1570 BC.  And then you try the compare the wounds of Tao's head with the Biblical narrative.   Dude, when the wounds of Tao's head were examined, it was determined that not only was that head wound caused by a dagger or javelin, but he also suffered from two blows of an axe in other parts of his skull.  The biblical narrative specified that Sisera's wound was caused by a tent peg forced through by a hammer and no other blows.   So, here you strike out 3 times!!!!   Wrong place, wrong time, wrong method of death.

The kings are only supposedly different period [date] according to orthodox "authoroties" asserted ascribed theoretical dates (disputed by some scholars and sources).
The periods are similar in historical details.
You must consider all details/evidences and similarities as well as differences, and you must admit quality matches and not just unfairly focus on only one or few. I underlined almost exact same very similar technical details words (eg both mention "mace/hammer", both "lying down", etc).
That there are also maybe one or two other holes/wounds doesn't necesarily prove that the two can't match, because there are perfectly possible explanations in our scenario (eg tent peg might have had more than one spike? eg "pierced through to the earth", eg he fell down and might have been damaged in fall, eg it was a clumsy-like striking with a tent peg and a mace by a woman, and she might have stabbed more than once, eg he had just come from a battle and might have been wounded). The bible text doesn't necessarily say there was definitely only one blow/stab/wound.
Your expert orthodox sources contradict the ones i have here. My orthodox one here says "with a mace" which is similar to the hammer in bible. You can't deny that the descriptions i underlined can possibly be the same, because the minor details are pretty amazingly similar.
The source mentions a few different possibilities for the weapon implying they are not sure as to the correct exact one/ones used, and the ones mentioned all tend to quite likely to be uncertain due to confusing nature not knew that a tent peg and mace had been used.
It is not the wrong place. It says "temples" of his head in English translation, which is perfectly possible to be same as Seqenenre's.

Hyksos supposedly introduced the chariot/horse into Egypt. Jabin and Sisera are linked with chariots and iron. So according to your orthodox chronology Hyksos are within the top end of possibility for Jabin and Sisera.
There are multiple matches of biblical events between Moses (in 12th dyn) and David (in 18th dynasties) with events between the 12th dyn (Moses) and 18th dyn (David). 3 years Shechem of Abimelech son of Jerubbaal/Gideon also may match 3 years Sharuhen of Apepi 2 and Ahmose son of Ebana.
So we have more than just one pin point, we have series of lots matches over long streches.

Judges was not "1200 - 1000" but 1400s to 1000s: "Moses was 480 years before Solomon".
There is no proof that Hyksos really are "1500s" bc date.


 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Exhibit C.  Lies.   I do use the Bible.  While I don't take everything the Bible says literally, let the record show that even I have used the Bible to disprove your assertions.   True, i don't take the "480 years" literally but I do take it figuratively.   I see in "480 years" as 12 generations (12 x 40 = 480) with 40 years to a generation.   However I don't take 40 years to a generation literally either, simply "40" = "generation".   This goes well with the amount of generations between Moses and Solomon being 12 generations!!!    I go with a more biologically realistic generation of 25 years.   Hence the time between Moses and Solomon is 300 years (12 x 25).

"430 years to the very day". "400 years in foreign country" prophsied to Abraham. "450 years" in Acts. 300 years to Jephthah in Judges. It doesn't say "12 generations" it says "480 years". Sure it might be possible it was code for 12 generations, but it doesn't mean it definitely is.


 

Originally posted by Sharrukin I had mentioned such a series for the Late Assyrian period (continuous series of limmus from 911-630 BC) but we also have 418 limmus from the Middle Assyrian period mainly from the reign of Ashur-nadin-ahhe II (c. 1402-1393 BC) to Ashur-bel-kala (c. 1074-1057 BC) and after.   We also have limmu from the Early Assyrian Period beginning from the reign of Erishum I (c. 1972-1933 BC) to after the reign of Ishme-Dagan (c. 1755-1736? BC).  So, we do have the evidence to show that the Assyrians were keeping track of time and therefore the lengths of reign of their rulers is a just as valid as the figures in the Bible.   Please DON'T be biased to the Bible because it is considered a "sacred text".  When you criticise the regnal figures of the Assyrian kings you are offering NO PROOF that they are "exaggerated", "lies", "co-regencies", "rounded up/down", "contemporary dynasties", etc.  Such had also been said of the figures in the Bible for the Judahite and israelite kings.   Remember, limmus are "contemporary records" hence they are very valuable in the tracking of chronological time.

"No proof" doesn't mean that it is not possible (as evidences do imply). There is evidences of coregencies, but yous refuse to accept some evidences and only willing to acccept limit ones (the elite are always doing this: making the be all and end all only one certain thing that they will acccept and nothing else). Judah and Israel kings of the same period has proven coregencies in their lists.
I already told you your Assyrian king list is an artifical combination of 2 or 3 or 4 different dynasties/cities. I do not see proof that the Asshur and Calah and Nineveh dynasties kings lists (or Old, Mitanni, Middle, and Neo periods) are really all consecutive.
I already posted different claimed lengths of periods in different ancient sources in the Sargon thread.


 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Actually we do, but they only relate to events in Assyria.

Then why don't they/you give them? The only ones i have seen include the Ashurbanipal to Kutirnahhunte one.



 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Currently the Venus tablets of Ammisaduqa is ONLY disputed as to whether the Middle or Low Chronology is preferred, just a mere 64 years difference.  Up to about 1500 BC the Assyro-Babylonian chronology is really not disputed.

It is not true that Ammisaduga is only disputed between Old/Long and Middle and Low/Short dates. It is only true that they may only be disputed within orthodox establishment between those dates, but what about all other people in world and history other than the present orthodox establishment? Velikovsky and Rohl and myself are some scholars of some accomplishment (though yous refuse to admit any) who have disputed the Ammisaduga date much more than the confined limits of old/long and short/low ascribed dates.
Ammi-saduga might be connected with Apepi or Adoni-bezek?



 

Originally posted by Sharrukin I would agree that there are problems matching Shoshenq's campaign with Shishak's.   However Shoshenq's Dynasty does coincide with the era of the Divided Kingdom based on most schemes, but I am willing to talk about this problem as a separate post.

The orthodox claim that Sheshonk supposedly matches in dates. I have not yet seen any proof of how/why that they are supposedly in same time in orthodox theory, and i am also certain that they are not same date and that the supposed chronological calculations are flawed in one or more places. The only thing sthat supposedly matches between the two are: the supposed same time (in orthodox ascribed dates), and similar names (disputed by some), and half similar campaigns, and a wee bit of gold jewlery that supposedly could be from temple gold, and a Libyan/Lubim supposed connection. But these are pretty few and pretty weak/poor matches, and there are contrary evidences.
Bible has "princes of Zoan/Tanis and Noph" (supposedly Memphis but might be No-amun/Thebes?) in time between Jeroboam and Zedekiah. This is the 20th/21st/22nd Tanite dynasties period.
22nd dynasty has synchronisms with Phoenicians kings which again is post Solomon?
22nd dynasty has matches with Assyrian names which is post Rehoboam.
"Shishak doesn't match Sheshonk's campaign" etc.
The Third Intermediate Period is an "intermediate period" similar to the SIP and FIP which implies a difficult/uncertain period.

 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Well, A-R, that is true.   There is NO Egyptian inscription which mention "Joseph" or "Moses".

They/yous only admit/claim that there is no trace of Joseph/Moses in the times/dynasties that your orthodox "experts" chronology keeps asserting they are contemporary (in vertical estimations), and yous reject possible evidences of them in other periods mainly only because yous keep asserting they are supposedly different dates in "expert" opinion. It is not true that there is not trace of them in all other times/places, only that there is no trace of them in your/their "expert" supposedly contemporary date time. They not found then/there because they have the wrong time because their Egypt chronology dates are wrong (too old/long).


 

Originally posted by Sharrukin And here is where you show your hubris.    By "our chronology" you mean, "YOUR" chronology.  Please don't ascribe it to anybody else except yourself.    And NO A-R, none of your horizontal or vertical matches are qualitative or quantitative.   It is all based on the most dubious matches imaginable.   I questioned you on all of them.    And the reason why you say that yours is better is that they don't match YOUR presuppositions.  That's it.

Not true that "only yourself" accepts our chronology. Other people agree with numerous areas eg:
Moses in 12th/13th agreed by Rohl, Down, Velikovsky, Hoeh.
Moses in 6th agreed by Courville, [Hoeh in 5th].
Joseph in 3rd-4th agreed by Mohler, Wyatt, Hoeh, Fasold, [Herodotus].
Joshua's Jericho in earlier MBA period agreed by Velikovsky, Garstang, Keller, and you yourself admitted in you lasts posts that they adimt the real date might be 1500s bc.
The only reason you/they assert that you don't agree that ours could possibly be right is because yous keep asserting that your "experts" added up dynasties reigns supposedly don't match/fit, but this has pitfalls.



 

Originally posted by Sharrukin Enter the boy-king Tutankhamun, shown to be, based on genetics, the son of Akhenaten.   He reigned about 10 years dying about age 19.  ....  There are depictions of Tutankhamun battling Asiatics but he himself probably did not travel there due to his physical defects.

Amarna letters "i and Abdu-Heba (king of Jerusalem) alone are left to fight the leader of the Habiru (sagaz mesh "people of the rebel Mesh").... But behold they have been fighting against me...." This is possible to match around about or shortly before the time of David taking Jerusalem/Zion.

Similarities between story of David murdering Uriah and the story of Tutankhamun/Huriya and/or Zannanza:

David/Uriah: David had an affir with wife of Uriah and she got pregnant, and to cover up the slip he murdred the young military commander Uriah the Hittite in battle "killed bythe sword of the sons of Ammon" (after Uriah had refused to "go down to his own house"), his wife/widow bewailed "her owner", and later David married Uriah's widow Bathsheba. The child from the affair died after 7 days. Nathan the prophet went and told David off with a word picture about someone taking someones only lamb which they had brought up in their lap. Later Nathan was involved in securing Solomon's succesion.
Uriah is called a "Hittite". David's name means  "beloved" and is related/similar to Dadda/Adad which can mean "father". Ur can mean fire/light/gold? Story include writing a letter.

Tut/Huriya: The "boy/child king", whose battle armour recently in news, who fought Asiatics, died after about 7/8/9 years reign and aged about 17, he was entombed in the 70 days period. His widow Ankhesenpaaten sent to Hittie king asking to send a Hittie prince for her to marry. The Hittite prince when sent was "murdered" on the way before arriving in Egypt, "possibly the blame put at feet of Horembab" (who suceeded next after the first immediate successor Ay). Ankhesenpaaten is linked with "6 daughters/sisters", she afterwards married the successor Ay "(holy) father / father (of god).
Tut might match "Horus" in the classical king lists? (The young god Horus like Osiris was murdered by Set/Typhon in one story? Tut's name means "living image of hidden god Amun". Tut could also be a type of martyr Jesus?) Nibhurrereya/Naphuriya/Huriya of the Amarna letters is supposed to match a name of Akhenaten, but it could possibly match a similar Nebkheperure name of Tutankhamun? There has been recent theory that he may have "died in battle in Syria".
The Amarna period herectic kings had "Mitanni/Hurrian/Hittite/Aryan" ancestors just a couple/few generations back.
Smenkhkare was the favoured successor of Akhenaten. Akhenaten is famous as a devotee/priest/prophet of Aten. Psalm in bible is similar to his Hymn to Aten. Tut's tomb is famous for its rich gold treasures.
Amarna letters period.

The stories details are somewhat similar on the murders etc that i can't be sure whether the are the same or different. The bible may have got a few details distorted in the oral memory before being written down? The one biggest possible difference is that David saw Uriah's wife in Jerusalem seemingly, and Tut's wife is unlikely to have been there? But it still looks like it might possibly actually be possible.

Egyptian persons possible Biblical matches:
Ay "(holy) father / father (of god)" : David (Dadda)?
Naphuriya/Huriya ("Horus") : Uriah the Hittite?
murdered Hittite prince Zannanza : Uriah the Hittite?
child/boy Tutankhamun ("Horus", battle armour, 17 yrs old) : Uriah? child of David/Bathsheba (7 days old)?
Akhenaten/Ikhnaton/Khunaton : Nathan?
Smenkhkare : Solomon?
Hor-em-hab : Jeroboam? Rehoboam? Solomon? Hiram?

Biblical persons possble Egyptian matches:
David (husband of Bathsheba) : Ay "father" (husband of Ankhesenpaaten)?
Bathsheba (daughter 7, wife of David) : Ankhesenpaaten (6 daughters/sisters, wife of Ay)? Abdiheba?
Uriah : Huriya/Tut (battle armour, battling Asiatics)? &/or Zannanza (murdered)? Burna-buriash? Biryawaza? Biridiya?
child of David & Bathsheba: child/boy Tutankhamun? prince Zannanza?
prophet Nathan : Ikhnaton/Khnaton/Akhenaten or Aten/Aton?
Solomon : Smenkhkare? or Horemhab? or Suppiluliumash?
Hiram : Horemhab? Ramses? Ahiram?
Queen of Sheba: Nefertiti? Neferneferuaten? Smenkhkare? Abdiheba? Kiya?
Jeroboam or Rehoboam : Hor-em-hab (Heru/Horus)?
Shishak/Susakim : Seti 1 or Ramses 2 "Sesostris/Sestura"? (not Tut as i previously though?)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 18-Aug-2018 at 11:52

For the period after Akhenaten we have the brief reigns of Smenkhare and Neferneferuaten.   They reigned for at least 2 years.  However their reigns were so brief that we have no information on the political situation in the Middle East at this time.< ="text/" async="" ="/_Incapsula_Resource?SWJIYLWA=719d34d31c8e3a6e6fffd425f7e032f3&ns=11&cb=1614493786">< id="jifa" ="http://lf5am.x.incapdns.net/monitor.js?ip=107.154.161.76&sid=0&aid=0&gid=1&pname=lax-prx11&ts=1534574657&sig=1c838788aec01c6c3a8e466588dff8c8&mode=0"> //

Chronology has to consider horizontal synchronisms/matches/correspondences not just vertical calculated distances (and it should have some long periods key dates confirmations not just trying to guess from adding up heaps of reigns in compiled king lists, and other confirmations).

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I am quiting because it seems to me from subtle general appearances that you are ingenuine/lying because no matter what stark evidences i try to show you just trivially dismiss or ignore or evade it. I am wasting my time. I can't win because it always seems it not really/just about truth/proof/evidences but it is really/also about power and psychology and methods/tactics and subtle cunningness and presentation/communication.

Look at the details of the Seqenenra's wounds, the description is too similar to just so totally casually/light dismiss. Sure it might possibly be wrong, but i can't so easily dismiss the details similarities as you did. (If it was a criminal court case i am sure this would not be so easily dismissed because the wounds details of both do seem to likely match. This is like if there was not chronological dispute.) There is another possible found possible match of King Tut &/or Zannanza connected with Uriah the Hittite, though i am not sure if it is right or wrong, or what the exact correct matches are. It seems to mean my previous Shishak/Tut correspondence may be wrong, and Shishak might rather be Seti 1 or Ramses 2.
Yous defy ancient sources like the bible. You assert judges was "1200-1000" bc, based on Moses "1300/1200s bc" in direct conflict with bible which says Moses was 480 years before Solomon which makes the period more like 1400s/1300s-1000s bc. Yous take the Assyrian king lists as gospel truth but yous doubt/reject/ignore/deny/distort bible/Josephus/Herodotus when they don't happen to fit with the orthodox modern theoretical composite chronological lists.

Replying to your previous (before last) post's two main points. The first point i address is the total of Assyrian kings:

I agree that the 18th dynasty Amarna Letters period has syncrhonisms with Middle Assyrian & Mitanni/Hurrians & Kassites & Hittite empire.
(Though the Amarna letters precise period might possibly be open to dispute on some kings correct matches because: 1. The Egyptian kings names in the letters might not match the pharaohs/names that they are supposed to, and/or the collection might include some letters from earlier times? and 2. The letters don't have the kings numbers/numerals only the names, and some might be incorrectly identified?)

I do not agree though that the 18th dynasty / Amarna Period, and/or the Middle Assyrian period both/each date to "1300s" bc.

The problem with basing chronology on adding up the total of reigns of the Assyrian kings list/lists is that it ignores possible exagerations or lies of ancient priests/scribes, possible co-regencies or overlaps (as is proven to be known in the Judah and Israel ones), and part years (end &/or begining of one or two kings in same years) or rounded off/up/down figures, and 2/3/4 different Assyrian cities/dynasties (Asshur, Calah, Nineveh? Dursarken?), and also the how many months/days the length of the year is (in different ancient/modern Biblical/gentile cultures solar/lunar calendars), and possible insertions or omissions. I notice the 3 kings near the middle look like there is a maybe uncertain period there? (Also, how does the total of reigns compare with an estimation from the number of generations of 26 kings?)
The Assyrian king list also has 5 Shamsiadads and 5 Shalmanesers and 5 Ashurnirari's which might possibly be repduplications? Bible says "kings (plural) of the Assyrians", Assyrian king list says one king "fought his rival" predecessor. (I cant see any definite reduplications in your 454 yrs group, though it does have two Tiglathpilesers and Ashur-resha-ishis 1 & 2 in same order.)
There is no confirmation of the dates with key points dates between the ends of the periods (like the bible has ones of 430 years Joseph to Moses, and 480 yrs Moses to Solomon), not just adding up heaps of reigns and dynasties. (I mean like ancient era dates records like those 2 bible ones, not methods like astronomical which have pitfalls. Unfortunetly they/you refuse to consider ones in Herodotus and Josephus and Bible (dismissing them just because "not authorities" and/or are supposedly "unreliable"). The one we do have for Naramsin unfortunately gives exagerated date that has not yet been correctly decrypted/decoded/deciphered. The Venus tablets of Ammisaduga also not yet indisputably correctly dated.)

Chronology has to consider horizontal synchronisms/matches/correspondences not just vertical calculated distances (and it should have some long periods key dates confirmations not just trying to guess from adding up heaps of reigns in compiled king lists, and other confirmations).

 The orthodox chronology does have just a few seeming supposed horizontal matches, and has a claimed supposed vertical match of calcuated totals of dynasties and reigns and years.
But the orthodox chronology has many places where things either don't match, or they outright conflict with some sources/evidences (eg their "Jericho layer doesn't match Joshua's invasion in the layer's evidence").
The few supposed matches they do have are weak or wrong or coincidence. Their "Sheshonk's campaign doesn't match Shishak's". Their "Joshua's Jericho" period in Jericho doesn't match Joshua's. They claim "we can't find any rrace of Jospeh and Moses in Egyptian history" in the ascribed date dynasty that they assert they were in.
Meanwhile our own chronology has somewhat more quality and quantity horizontal and vertical matches than theirs, but they refuse to accept it only because they assert that their added up years totals for the dynasties supposedly doesn't match.

Astronomical "confirmation" is flawed coincidence because as i have already stated many times already there were celestail changes in ancient times (eg Joshua halts sun, eg Venus tablets, eg Hezekiah sun goes back 10 steps, eg Hyksos calendar year change, eg Herodotus said Egyptians said sun changed direction 2 x 2 times in ancient times).

The second point to address is your claim that the Amarna period names and Solomon period names supposedly either have no matches or are different.

Firstly you must know that i did not necessarily just say/mean "Akhenaten & Solomon", but rather i said/meant "Amarna letters or Amarna period or heretic kings" to include the whole period from Akhenaton's father or grandfather to Horemhab, and I also said "Saul and/or David and/or Solomon". I also said the letters may match "about the time of David taking Jerusalem, or abit before him taking it". (It does look like the Amarna Letters are closer to David than to Solomon. Solomon might be a little bit later.

Solomon reigned for 40 years. There can be more than one ruler changes in short number of years. Amarne letters cover two or more Egyptian/Canaanite kings reigns.
So you are at least half wrong/unfair to claim there is supposedly "no match of Solomon with Amarna period", because Solomon never the less does still seem to match the same 18th-19th dynasty period, which (if we are not wrong) is still close enough to Akhenaten/Amarna (one or few kings out).
I also meant "similarities" not necessarily "matches". It is not necessarily true that "no [possible] matches". There are many seeming similarities between the Saul/David/Solomon period and the 18th-19th dynasty period. There are quite a few names in Amarna letters which are similar to names of David/Solomon period. I would have to compile a list. I am not really keen to post some possible examples because i am tired of people always being so viciously mean.

Timeline of my Egyptian & Biblical chronological matches:
1st (&/or 2nd) dyn -- Abraham
2nd/3rd to 4th/5th dyns -- Joseph/Jacob
11th dyn -- Elim
(6th &/or) 12th (& 13th?) dyn -- Moses/exodus
15th/16th dyn (Hyksos) -- Judges/Amalek/Edomite
400 yrs 15th/16th to 19th dyn -- 480 yrs Moses to Solomon
17th dyn -- Sisera?
18th (Amarna/Heretic) dyn -- David/Solomon
18th or 19th dyn -- Shishak/Susakim?
19th or 20th dyn -- Zerah?
(20th &) 21st dyn -- Zoan & Noph?
20th or 21st or 22nd or 25th dyn -- So
22nd/23rd dyn -- Phoenician/Assyrian/Elamite
25th dyn -- Assyrian
26th dyn -- Necho/Hophra/Nebuchadnezzar?
27th & 31st dyns -- Persians
32nd dyn -- Macedonian
33rd dyn -- Seleucids/Ptolemies/Maccabees
Romans



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 17-Aug-2018 at 05:17

Thank-you for lessening the quantity of points to have to reply to per post/day. I will read and reply the post's point/points shortly. Today i found another possible confirmation that Moses was 12th dynasty and David/Solomon/Shishak was 18th(-19th) dynasty.

Sisera (Judges 4:2 - 5:30, 12:9) : "... Jabin king of Canaan,
who reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose army was Sisera,
who lived in Harosheth [Arish? Avaris?] of the Gentiles
[Hyksos "foreign nations"]. .... Sisera, the captain
of Jabin's army, with his chariots [Hyksos introducted these].... 
Then Jael Heber's wife took a tent peg, and took a hammer
in her hand, and went softly to him, and struck the pin
into his temples, and it pierced through into the ground;
for he was in a deep sleep; so he swooned and died. ....
He came to her; and behold, Sisera lay dead, and the tent
peg was in his temples.
.... She put her hand to the tent peg, and her right hand to
the workmen's hammer.  With the hammer she struck Sisera.
She struck through his head.  Yes, she pierced and struck
through his temples.
At her feet he bowed, he fell, he lay.  At her feet he bowed,
he fell.  Where he bowed, there he fell down dead. .... Sisera,
captain of the army of Hazor [Avaris/Hauar? Luxor?]...."
Psalm 83:9-10 "Do to them as you did to Midian, as to
Sisera, as to Jabin, at the river Kishon [Arish? pun on Hyksos?];
who perished at Endor, who became as dung for the earth."

Seqenen-ra (Tao 2, 17th dynasty of ancient Egypt) :
"Apepi 1 complains to his Theban counterpart Seqenenre Tao...."
"The terrible wounds on Seqenenre's skull were causes by ... people attacking him with a dagger, an axe, a spear and possibly a mace. The horizontal nature of the ... wounds indicate that he was lying on his right side, either asleep or having been felled by a blow. The body was hurredly embalmed (perhaps on the battlefield) without the usual careful preparation...." "... evidence of terrible wounds about the head."
"... Apepi in connection with an Egyptian under-king Seqenenra...."
"My father was a captain of the deceased king Seqenenra.... .... I conveyed by water the deceased king Serkara...."

(Just because the Egyptian king lists seem to imply that people were kings/pharaohs doesn't necessarily mean they really were all kings.
Just because the bible doesn't call Sisera a king but a captain doesn't mean he wasn't a king.
From the evidence the seeming possibility does seem a good that Egyptian Theban "king" Seqenenre/Sisera was the "captain of the army" of the Hyksos pharaoh Jabin/Apepi.
Orthodox elite claim they can't match because the dates supposedly don't match. But the orthodox ascribed date of "1500s" bc of Seqenere is only theory based on a few problematic artificial composite estimated calculations of many dynasties and kings reigns lengths and a few supposed coincidences. There is no ancient reliable confirmation of their ascribed dynasties dates except for the problematic two Siriadic/Sothaic dates.)



Edited by Arthur-Robin - 17-Aug-2018 at 05:40