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Who was the 1st to discover America?

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  Quote Athena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who was the 1st to discover America?
    Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 11:09
I have a National Geographic map of south America, with pictures representing the people, or showing their artifacts in the different regions and it looks like all the races are represented.

The Phoenician could have discovered the Americas.  But this would be after Asians crossed the land bridge. 

http://phoenicia.org/america.html




Edited by Athena - 28-Mar-2011 at 11:19
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2011 at 10:11
Originally posted by medenaywe

Egyptians,coca is inside the Geekmummies! 
 
 
Trade! America wasn't discovered, it was rediscovered.  The ancients knew about it.
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2011 at 11:03
Egyptians,coca is inside the Geekmummies! 
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  Quote bcoakes97 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 20:03
For all you Zheng He believers...Why would the Europeans settle and the Chinese not? I know there was The Hongxi Emperor who wanted to stop expeditions but if they find a giant new continent wouldn't they settle there permanently. Also, all confirmed expeditions had gone through Oceania and as far as Africa, so East, why would he suddenly decide to go West? This would be a giant voyage and heavily recorded, but no. They probably hit Australia.
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  Quote daveu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Apr-2010 at 07:59
Johnny come lately here. Much more research has been done about the peopling of N.A. I have found the book "Advanced Civilizations of Prehistoic America" by Frank Joseph really good. Now the first thing out of the "its not true - its garbage" crowd will be -- hoax or fraud. Oh well. the blind leading the blind again. I think the sailors of Europe and the North Atlantic knew all about the continent. They also knew all about the Grand Banks and the cod industry. From the Vikings to the Templars to the Scots to the European sailors. A person just has to figure in the fact that 98% (+/-)of the population was illiterate and everything was word of mouth. Yes, a few monks and explorers had journals, etc and they really are our only source of material. BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE. The continent is littered with ruins and artifacts all over the place and I don't think Native Americans took a lot of time building these things (for one - Cahokia). I have been there. We are soooo stuck in the "white, European" mode that our eyes have very big blinders on.
 
This does not even get to the North Michigan copper mines. New research on that puppy out also. Especially since they have found a new ship (dated approx. - very B.C.) in the "Med" loaded with copper. Come on. This was done by a very organized labor force. Think what it would take today to move that much copper.

"Scientists and engineers estimate that it would have required 10,000 men 1,000 years to develop the extensive operations carried on throughout the region. It is estimated that 1.5 billion pounds of copper were mined by these unknown people."

This quote was taken from the "Short History of Copper" "http://www.exploringthenorth.com/cophistory/cophist.html
 
Does anyone really know what 1.5 billion pounds of copper looks like.
 
The real key to this whole thing is -----  "THESE UNKNOWN PEOPLE" ------    Clap
Until this has been proven we are left with one thing.  ---  where is the copper ---- all the rest of this chatter is done by people of "but Columbus was first" crowd. He wasn't. They have not found the copper anymore than anyone else. Did see a show on History Channel about the copper boat rams of the Greeks.  Very very interesting.
 
This is my introductory rant.
 
dave
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2008 at 12:29
Originally posted by edgewaters

Originally posted by pinguin

There is no evidence. Period.

That's not true. One group crossed over around 500 AD and, by about 1200 AD, had colonized part of the Americas from the Pacific to the Atlantic, setting up an entire civilization.

The Inuit.
 
I should have said, "other than the Inuits, there is no evidence" Wink
But you know they didn't mean the Inuits, but the lost tribe of Israel, the nubians and other in the same style.

Originally posted by edgewaters

It is amazing how persistent are the hyperdiffusionism believers in theirs fantasies.
They keep in theirs effort to degrade the brillian Amerindian cultures and civilizations. Perhaps to prove the singularity and superiority of western civilization


Yes, that is absolutely their aim. Most of them don't even realize about the Inuit, because hyperdiffusionist theorists don't talk about the Inuit. They're not Romans or Egyptians or lost tribes of Israel, so they don't satisfy the fantasy. This shows the true colours of the hyperdiffusionists.
 
Agreed. But it is not only fantasy.  Deep inside hiperdiffusionism there is still living some racist theories of bygone days.
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Oct-2008 at 09:59
Originally posted by pinguin

There is no evidence. Period.



That's not true. One group crossed over around 500 AD and, by about 1200 AD, had colonized part of the Americas from the Pacific to the Atlantic, setting up an entire civilization.

The Inuit.

It is amazing how persistent are the hyperdiffusionism believers in theirs fantasies.
They keep in theirs effort to degrade the brillian Amerindian cultures and civilizations. Perhaps to prove the singularity and superiority of western civilization


Yes, that is absolutely their aim. Most of them don't even realize about the Inuit, because hyperdiffusionist theorists don't talk about the Inuit. They're not Romans or Egyptians or lost tribes of Israel, so they don't satisfy the fantasy. This shows the true colours of the hyperdiffusionists.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 02:31

There is no evidence. Period.

 
It is amazing how persistent are the hyperdiffusionism believers in theirs fantasies.
They keep in theirs effort to degrade the brillian Amerindian cultures and civilizations. Perhaps to prove the singularity and superiority of western civilization


Edited by pinguin - 03-Sep-2008 at 02:39
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  Quote Sander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Sep-2008 at 01:37
Its seems more likely that there was exchanging with more than only one Old world region. Besides, meso america situated between 2 oceans ,  was geographically extra nicely situated to have contact with various people from across both oceans.
 
Meso americanists like Coe (and others ) who are a bit less under the spell of the isolationst dogma and politized  issues,  have accepted compelling evidence and some contacts .
 
The common isolationist practice is to deny everything that 'violates ' the ideology. The big trick is to keep arguing and disagreeing, so it can said to be " not incontrovertible evidence" , 'not widely agreed" etc. Papers, written by  the isolationist fractions within the academic community warrant extra caution, when they have to defend the Culturally Sealed Continent .  Often we see some serious twisting.  Nice to demonstrate...


Edited by Sander - 10-Dec-2008 at 17:57
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 00:44
Goatsucker?????Confused


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 00:36
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

... What's a chupacraba? 
 
The goatsucker Wink
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 00:34
Originally posted by Sander

 
The hard-line stance of "zero cultural influence on American civilizations " is of course not shared by all meso-americanists. Prof. Michael Coe for example, one of the foremost authorities on Meso-american cultures (especially Maya) :
 
 
"... let me point out one further piece of evidence. Dr. Paul Tolstoy of the University of Montreal has made a meticulous study of the occurrence of the techniques and tools utilized in the manufacture of bark paper around the Pacific basin. It is his well-founded conclusion that this technology, known in ancient China, Southeast Asia and Indonesia, as well as in Mesoamerica, was diffused from eastern Indonesia to Mesoamerica at a very early date".

" This by no means implies that the Maya - or any other Mesoamerican civilization - were merely derivative from Old World prototypes. What it does suggest is that at a few times in their history, the Maya may have been receptive to some important ideas originating in the Eastern Hemisphere".

( Michael Coe , The Maya, 1987 : 45-47 )

 Interesting

 
Oh Yeah. Wasn't professor Coe who discovered the magnetic compass was discovered in the Americas first? Perhaps Chineses borrowed from the Olmecs.
And what about number Cero, that was introduced in Mesoamerica before India? Perhaps was translated from Mesoamerica to South Asia Confused
And, of course, American cotton textiles are older than the ones of the Old World, guess who carried them to Eurasia.
 
Yeap, fantasy takes quantum leaps.
 
I wonder why everybody denied Amerindians and Inuits were in Europe before Columbus, when any people of the Old World, no matter how backwars they were, seem to had been in the Americas before Columbus... Confused
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 01-Sep-2008 at 00:35
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2008 at 00:27
Originally posted by red clay

...
 Actually it's going the other way around.  With academic institutions such as the University of Pennsylvania Museum heavily engaged in research in the Beni and other regions, not to mention the work being done by the Mexican government as well as other local institutions,
The scientific evidence for contact is growing yearly.
 
Red Clay. The problem is not that "pieces of evidence" exist. The problem is that always, since five centuries ago, those dreams of contact has shown to be balooney, time after time.
 
Show us, please, a single piece of your "scientific evidence" to see the sources, please.
 
Originally posted by red clay

...
The more people actually see the artifacts and the more they read, the more they realize they have been mislead and out right lied to by frightened, intellectual midgets with an outrageous racist agenda.  These people refuse to see the evidence for contact for what it is, finding it more comfortable to dismiss anything counter to what they believe as a hoax or some kind of conspiracy.
 
The Afrocentric pseudoculture that grows strong in the United States,and that captures the imagination of some educated people,  is as much racists against the Indigenous People of the Americas as the European myth-makers of centuries before.
 
There is no evidence of contact from Africa to the Americas. There is no evidence of sails invented in Africa either. Africans were lock inland because fault of technology. In fact, there is evidence that West African didn't even populated Cape Verde nor Madagascar before the comming of foreigners! They didn't come to the Americas by swimming.
 
And it is a conspiracy, indeed. The people of the old world together still don't want to recognize the intelligence of the Indigenous people of the Americas.
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 19:19
Indeed


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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 19:05
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Originally posted by pinguin

It is simply racism that education has not yet erased from the mentality of people outside the Americas.

hmmm, my impression is that those theories are even more popular inside the Americas than they are outside the Americas
 
Indeed, but mainly between people with low education. Yes, the same people that believes in the widow, the bad eye, UFOs, ghosts, abductions and the chupacabras, tend to believe in ancient white teachers coming to Tiahuanaco, and that the Atlantis was in the Andes. They also tend to believe they are pure european descendents, while genetics tell otherwise. Therefore, they accept wild ideas born in europe as if they were the truth. Not only ufology and pyramid science, but also pre-columbian contacs and nazi esoterism.
 
Most people with a little bit of culture, though. admire the originality of the ancient cultures of the Andes and pride of them. And after visiting so many museums, and reading so much about it, they get convinced that pre-Columbian contacts is balooney.
 
 
 
 
Actually it's going the other way around.  With academic institutions such as the University of Pennsylvania Museum heavily engaged in research in the Beni and other regions, not to mention the work being done by the Mexican government as well as other local institutions,
The scientific evidence for contact is growing yearly.
 
 
 
Most people with a little bit of culture, though. admire the originality of the ancient cultures of the Andes and pride of them. And after visiting so many museums, and reading so much about it, they get convinced that pre-Columbian contacts is balooney.
 
The more people actually see the artifacts and the more they read, the more they realize they have been mislead and out right lied to by frightened, intellectual midgets with an outrageous racist agenda.  These people refuse to see the evidence for contact for what it is, finding it more comfortable to dismiss anything counter to what they believe as a hoax or some kind of conspiracy.
 
 
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote Count Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 16:49
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Well there was a guy named Bjarni who would have dicovered america if he had gotten out of the boat. Source: The greatest stories never told by Rick Beyer. And there is evidence that the pheniocian's may have traded with the natives, source: Lies my teacher told me by Professer James W. Lowen. 
 
Sure. There is also evidence of the chupacabras eaten the chickens in the farms where I live Wink
 
 
Hey I've givven you my sources dude. What's a chupacraba? 


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 13:45
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Originally posted by pinguin

It is simply racism that education has not yet erased from the mentality of people outside the Americas.

hmmm, my impression is that those theories are even more popular inside the Americas than they are outside the Americas
 
Indeed, but mainly between people with low education. Yes, the same people that believes in the widow, the bad eye, UFOs, ghosts, abductions and the chupacabras, tend to believe in ancient white teachers coming to Tiahuanaco, and that the Atlantis was in the Andes. They also tend to believe they are pure european descendents, while genetics tell otherwise. Therefore, they accept wild ideas born in europe as if they were the truth. Not only ufology and pyramid science, but also pre-columbian contacs and nazi esoterism.
 
Most people with a little bit of culture, though. admire the originality of the ancient cultures of the Andes and pride of them. And after visiting so many museums, and reading so much about it, they get convinced that pre-Columbian contacts is balooney.
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 31-Aug-2008 at 13:51
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 11:30
Originally posted by pinguin

It is simply racism that education has not yet erased from the mentality of people outside the Americas.

hmmm, my impression is that those theories are even more popular inside the Americas than they are outside the Americas
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 07:45
Originally posted by Sander

The isolationist assertion that the Indians were the only ones in the world with zero outside influence on the ancient civilizations , until conquered by europeans, seems extremely unlikely...
 
Perhaps for you. However, that's the truth, verified by all the scientific studies about the Amerindian past of the Americas. The only exceptions are the contact by the Inuits that comming from Siberia reached Alaska, populated all the American Artic, reached Iceland and perhaps Europe. That's the exception rather than the rule.
 
The desperation to prove contacts before the European Invasion just shows the prejudice of people about the Amerindians. It is simply racism that education has not yet erased from the mentality of people outside the Americas.


Edited by pinguin - 31-Aug-2008 at 07:46
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2008 at 07:41
Originally posted by Count Belisarius

Well there was a guy named Bjarni who would have dicovered america if he had gotten out of the boat. Source: The greatest stories never told by Rick Beyer. And there is evidence that the pheniocian's may have traded with the natives, source: Lies my teacher told me by Professer James W. Lowen. 
 
Sure. There is also evidence of the chupacabras eaten the chickens in the farms where I live Wink
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