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Dolphin
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Topic: English domination of Ireland Posted: 20-Jul-2007 at 07:21 |
I mentioned the Rising, edgewaters to divert attention away from the bruising match or ' stoush', a word i've just learned , that was going on in earlier posts.
Is Collins considered favourably or negatively by British amateur historians nowadays?
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edgewaters
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 10:01 |
Originally posted by Patch
Edgewaters wrote:-
'Uhm ... slight problem with this theory ... the IRA was engaged in their campaign chiefly from 1919 to 1921 ... the war was well over and done with, and they had not been granted Home Rule despite hundreds of thousands serving and dying for Britain. '
The question was about the 1916 rising. And there was I thinking WW1 ended on 11th November 1918..... |
No question was asked about the 1916 rising, the topic is much wider in scope - you're the first to try to confine it to that. A poster made a statement that the 1916 rising was unnecessary as he felt that they would have been granted Home Rule after the war; a notion belied by the fact that after WW1, Ireland was engulfed in a guerrilla war to defend sovereignty proclaimed in the absence of Home Rule being implemented.
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elenos
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 09:24 |
How did the Irish come to dominate the world? Have a boilermaker, a Guinness chased by a whisky and find out!
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elenos
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Dolphin
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 09:09 |
I'd say eaglecap is pleased with the direction of this topic..!
Always happens in long discussion though. Dont forget another gem from Ireland- the Black Stuff. Guinness
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elenos
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 08:18 |
Whiskey or whisky, it all goes the same way. Cheers and down the hatch!
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elenos
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Dolphin
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:45 |
Originally posted by Patch
Originally posted by Dolphin
Dang and all these years those Scottish propoganda ba****ds have made me think they invented whisky, while we were all too drunk on it realise they were lying..! Deadly, another drunken gloat for me. (As, when drunk, you have as an Irishman, personally experienced the Famine, the troubles, built America, and now invented Whisky) |
The Scots did invent whisky, the Irish invented whiskey something comletely different... |
Na the scots invented whiskEY, the irish invented Whisky
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Patch
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:43 |
Originally posted by Dolphin
Dang and all these years those Scottish propoganda ba****ds have made me think they invented whisky, while we were all too drunk on it realise they were lying..! Deadly, another drunken gloat for me. (As, when drunk, you have as an Irishman, personally experienced the Famine, the troubles, built America, and now invented Whisky) |
The Scots did invent whisky, the Irish invented whiskey something comletely different...
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gcle2003
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 07:41 |
Any country that brews beer/ale could produce whisk(e)y by accident. Like wine and brandy.
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elenos
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:54 |
From Wikipedia (and I agree this is a good article)
Different grains are used for different varieties,
including: barley, malted barley, rye, malted rye, wheat, and maize (corn).
Whisky derives from the Irish Gaelic uisce beatha, which itself derives from
the Latin aqua vitae, meaning "water of life". It is always Scotch whisky,
and Irish whiskey; other countries may use either spelling.
The first written record of whisky comes from 1405 in Ireland,
where it was distilled by monks. It is also mentioned in Scotland
in 1496. However it is thought that whisky had already been around for at least
several hundred years prior. When or where whisky was first distilled is
unknown and the local, undocumented beverage production during the period makes
identification of the drink's origin difficult. Additionally, it is possible
that different groups discovered processes of distillation independently of one
another.
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elenos
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Dolphin
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 06:47 |
Dang and all these years those Scottish propoganda ba****ds have made me think they invented whisky, while we were all too drunk on it realise they were lying..! Deadly, another drunken gloat for me. (As, when drunk, you have as an Irishman, personally experienced the Famine, the troubles, built America, and now invented Whisky)
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Lotus
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 05:14 |
So when was English introduced into Ireland ?
I guess the first invasion was more Norman than English, and at that time the Normans first language was still French.
So are we talking about a much later time period, such as the Tudor period when the Irish were encouraged to use English ?
But, yes there was and still is a lack of precious metal in Ireland, except of course the Irish themselves..
There is some pretty precious stuff produced at the Midleton distillery near Cork.
Hats off to the Irish for inventing Whiskey
lovely stuff.
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Patch
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Posted: 19-Jul-2007 at 03:21 |
Edgewaters wrote:-
'Uhm ... slight problem with this theory ... the IRA was engaged in their campaign chiefly from 1919 to 1921 ... the war was well over and done with, and they had not been granted Home Rule despite hundreds of thousands serving and dying for Britain. '
The question was about the 1916 rising. And there was I thinking WW1 ended on 11th November 1918.....
Edited by Patch - 19-Jul-2007 at 03:23
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Dolphin
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 05:52 |
Originally posted by elenos
To be sure Dolphin, the Irish are precious and you are a jewel of the Tatha De Danaan,
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Ohh, the irony oozes from your very words..! Ach go raibh mle maith agat, elenos, comhritm go forleathan!
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elenos
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 05:31 |
To be sure Dolphin, the Irish are precious and you are a
jewel of the Tatha De Danaan,
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elenos
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edgewaters
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 04:53 |
Originally posted by Parnell
Thats probably more to do with the Home Rulers defeat at the election... |
The Home Rulers were quite popular for some time - but Gladstone's home rule bills kept getting defeated in British Parliament. This caused their collapse eventually, as there was no point in being repeatedly rejected.
Sinn Fein won the 1918 election, and declared Ireland independant. Britain could have just accepted the new state of affairs, but instead they decided to send the military in to do a regime change. Thus the (essentially defensive) guerrilla war of 1919-1921.
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Dolphin
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 04:30 |
Originally posted by elenos
The Easter rising did what it set out to do, polarize public sentiment in favour of Republican resentment against the English. I say English rather than British for geographically Ireland is part of the British Isles, a name given by the Romans who never invaded Ireland. Not for all the gold in Ireland is something of a joke, for there never was gold found in Ireland. Roman intelligence reports on an obvious lack of precious metals persuaded them to stay away. |
Oii, there's been gold found on Croke Patrick, one of Ireland's highest holy mountains....And we had plenty of tin way back when, before it was mined into nothing. But, yes there was and still is a lack of precious metal in Ireland, except of course the Irish themselves..
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Parnell
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 04:29 |
Uhm ... slight problem with this theory ... the IRA was engaged in their campaign chiefly from 1919 to 1921 ... the war was well over and done with, and they had not been granted Home Rule despite hundreds of thousands serving and dying for Britain.
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Thats probably more to do with the Home Rulers defeat at the election...
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elenos
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 03:58 |
The Easter
rising did what it set out to do, polarize public sentiment in favour of
Republican resentment against the English. I say English rather than British
for geographically Ireland is part of the British Isles, a name given by the Romans who
never invaded Ireland. Not for all the gold in Ireland is something of a joke, for there
never was gold found in Ireland. Roman intelligence reports on an
obvious lack of precious metals persuaded them to stay away.
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elenos
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edgewaters
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 03:26 |
Originally posted by Patch
An unnecssary waste of lives.
Ireland would have been granted Home Rule under the Home Rule Act after the war and then it would simply been a matter of time before full independance was attained without any need for bloodshed. |
Uhm ... slight problem with this theory ... the IRA was engaged in their campaign chiefly from 1919 to 1921 ... the war was well over and done with, and they had not been granted Home Rule despite hundreds of thousands serving and dying for Britain.
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edgewaters
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Posted: 18-Jul-2007 at 03:16 |
Originally posted by Parnell
The Irish 'invasion' was no different than the English acquisition of Anjou, or Aquitaine. They are the result of marriage alliances. Henry then had to invade Ireland in 1171 to make sure he didn't have a rival Norman Kingdom growing on his doorstep, and it was the Irish Lords who practically gave Ireland to him in 1171 when they handed it to him on a plate, largely because they preferred him to some dodgy High King. I'm hardly arguing for the sake of arguing either - your trying to make this out to be some horrible invasion by those damn English for no reason other than to take our liberty. It didn't happen like that. |
That entire episode has precious little to do with later conflict between the English and the Irish. The Norman lords got Gaelicized, and Henry's "conquest" was eventually contained to just a single city and a small territory around it.
What's really behind the conflict are much later events; particularly things like religious conflict coinciding with the Tudor Reconquest, the English Civil War as it played out in Ireland and Cromwell's campaigns, and above all, the Plantations. Nothing before that has much relevance - the Norman conquest certainly is not much of a complaint amongst Irish nationalists.
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