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Vikings - who are they?
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Zheng-ru View Drop Down
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Vikings - who are they?
    Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 21:09
Ah, thanks for the information, Northman.

- Zheng-ru
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 05:50
Originally posted by Zheng-ru

Thanks very much, Northman.

Maybe I am wrong, I thought they were first built in the 11th century though. 

 
I wont dispute that, although people tend to designate the term "stave" to all wooden churches wich isnt correct. Of course it was an ongoing process of development and I belive there must have been many stages between "post" churhes and "stave" churches.
By large - a stave building is (mainly) supported by vertical staves (pillars) inside the building in contrast to buildings where the outside walls and posts are the supporting elements.
 
Styrbiorn can probably elaborate if necessary.
 
    
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2007 at 04:57
They were built as soon as Christianity appeared. The stave technique was hardly a new invention, and it is believed the temples to the old gods were built with the same technology. In fact the Borgund church can be considered the peak of that type of architecture, since after 1150 stone started to replace wood in church buildings. Though stave churches were still built in the 16th century, they were an exception and usually very small.
 
 
Some smaller ones have been starting to be rebuilt though. The Skaga church from 1137 for example, which was demolished in the 19th century as punishment for the local population keeping a lot of pagan traditions in their beliefs. Rebuilt a few years ago, it's an example of the smaller and way more common stave churches.
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 22:07
Here are more photos, from Wikipedia:





"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:58
Thanks very much, Northman.

Maybe I am wrong, I thought they were first built in the 11th century though.

Here is the Borgund stavkirche from Laerdal, http://folk.uio.no/nilsroar/laerdal/laerdal.html and a diagram from stavechurch.org:












Edited by Zheng-ru - 02-Mar-2007 at 22:17
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:41
Beautiful model Zheng-ru. Thumbs%20Up
 
 
Originally posted by pinguin

Of what year is the church? In the times of the Viking invasions, the Norse were mainly Pagans. Only at the end of theirs period of expansion they converted to Christianism.
 
Stave churches were build roughly between 1150 and 1500. Read more HERE.
However, this is no indication of the earliest presence of cristianity. There were other simpler churches before these. Ansgar was a missionary in Scandinavia in the beginning of the 9'th century and had many followers, particular in Sweden.
The first Danish christian king was Harald Bluetooth who in 960 declared he "made the Danes Christian" on the runestone you can see in my signature. Of course, this is a truth with room for modifications.
From that time it really escalated. In the next couple of centuries more than 2,000 churches were build in Denmark (mostly square granite) and most of them are still in use.
 
 
This one is typical - the white tower with the church bell was added after the reformation in 1536. The gray roofing is lead.
 
 
~ Northman
 
 


Edited by Northman - 02-Mar-2007 at 21:45
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 21:41
You are right, the Norwegian stave churches were first built in the 11th century, after the Viking onslaught.
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 20:13
Of what year is the church? In the times of the Viking invasions, the Norse were mainly Pagans. Only at the end of theirs period of expansion they converted to Christianism.
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 19:12
Yes Knights, that was me.

Here are some photos...

(the Vikings were not just barbaric raiders )











I tried to make it as accurate as I could. This one is about 12 cm wide and 17 cm long.

There is a piece of wall that is crooked, it is actually intentional, it can be removed to examine the inside staves better. Also, I decided not to put a roof on it.

- Zheng-ru

Edited by Zheng-ru - 02-Mar-2007 at 19:44
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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Posts: 3224 		  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 02:36
Originally posted by Zheng-ru

Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures.

Excellent! I look forward to seeing it. Zheng-ru, correct me if I am wrong, but are you the guy who built that ballista and posted pictures of it?
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 02:34
Originally posted by Zheng-ru

Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures.
 
Yes of course - please do!
 
 
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 22:59
Also, if anyone is interested, I built a model of a Viking stave church, I could post some pictures.
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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Posts: 115 		  Quote Zheng-ru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Feb-2007 at 22:53
Hello all,

I've heard yet another meaning of the word Viking, as fjord-men, from one of my books.

I believe Vinland (L'Anse au Meadow) was meant to be a permanent settlement. I have a National Geographic article that talks about nine structures, one of which measured 70 by 55 feet (that is 3850 square feet!). The settlement existed for more than 3 years, it was Thorfinn Karlsefni who was determined to make it permanent. It seems that the Vikings were always short of land and that unrest in the homeland would constantly leave them no option except for spreading further and further.

Amazing, they plundered some Italian coastal towns, passed by Byzantium (on land!), sailed down the Volga, and even traded with Baghdad.

And is it not ironic that Hrolf promised to protect France from further Norse attacks?

Zheng-ru



Edited by Zheng-ru - 28-Feb-2007 at 23:13
"The best victory is when the opponent surrenders of its own accord before there are any actual hostilities...It is best to win without fighting."
- Sun-tzu
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 10:35
Originally posted by Reginmund

 
Yes, I've read that one of the reasons why the natives at first assumed the Europeans were gods was because their skin resembled the pale skin of dead men, and yet they were still alive.
 
Most of it is just a legend spread by Spaniards.
 
In any case, after 15.000 years of isolation an European in the Americas was something as strange for them as a Venusian could be for us.LOL
But the impresion was short living. After the first battle, and the first Spaniard felt to the ground, nobody would believe those fellows were gods anymore.
 
Pinguin


Edited by pinguin - 27-Feb-2007 at 10:37
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Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 10:11
Originally posted by Pelayo

I seriously doubt that many of the Spaniards the aztecs saw were "darker" than the natives they encountered. You are talking about the time at the end of the reconquest, not the modern invasion of morrocans.

 
Yes, I've read that one of the reasons why the natives at first assumed the Europeans were gods was because their skin resembled the pale skin of dead men, and yet they were still alive.
 
Of course, there's nothing surprising if there was the odd dark (I mean really dark) Spaniard with Columbus, his expedition was manned mainly by Andalucians and converted Jews after all.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 07:48
Originally posted by Pelayo

I seriously doubt that many of the Spaniards the aztecs saw were "darker" than the natives they encountered. You are talking about the time at the end of the reconquest, not the modern invasion of morrocans.

 
Morrocans=Moors. Have you heared about them?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 07:47
Originally posted by Pelayo

I seriously doubt that many of the Spaniards the aztecs saw were "darker" than the natives they encountered. You are talking about the time at the end of the reconquest, not the modern invasion of morrocans.

 
First, who said all natives are dark?
Second, have you heared about Andalucia?
 
 
 
 
 
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Pelayo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Feb-2007 at 05:10

I seriously doubt that many of the Spaniards the aztecs saw were "darker" than the natives they encountered. You are talking about the time at the end of the reconquest, not the modern invasion of morrocans.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 19:07
Well, the alternative to "sun crystals" is the "sun compass" that I posted above. So, or they had both or at least this one:
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 12:21
FYI.

-------------

Crystals 'helped Viking sailors'

The sun was not necessary for Vikings to navigate, say researchers
Vikings may have used a special crystal called a sunstone to help navigate the seas even when the sun was obscured by fog or cloud, a study has suggested.
Researchers from Hungary ran a test with sunstones in the Arctic ocean, and found that the crystals can reveal the sun's position even in bad weather.

This would have allowed the Vikings to navigate successfully, they say.

The sunstone theory has been around for 40 years, but some academics have treated it with extreme scepticism.

Researcher Gabor Horvath from Eotvos University in Budapest led a team that spent a month recording polarisation - how rays of light display different properties in different directions - in the Arctic.


c: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6338535.stm
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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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