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Seko
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Topic: why the USA are not a democracy? Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 14:49 |
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
Originally posted by strategos
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else. |
Considering that they are usually the MAJORITY in most if not ALL of these countries, mainly US I am talking about, it would make sense that they would be holding alot of the higher parts of the governemtn sheerly because of numbers.
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Hispanics and blacks now outnumber white Americans. Maybe you should do your research more effectively.
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Er, ehhmmm. Your off bud. Whitey is still numerically the predominant racial identity in the US.
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 14:47 |
Originally posted by ITAPEVI
Originally posted by Tobodai
Dont worry, all his posts are really scitzo and make no sense.
Personally the electoral college and the two party system I feel is
the least democratic thing a country could have. How can two near
identical parties be any better than one? Its not.
Washington said this country should hav eno political parties, although
I dont think there should be none, i think the more, the merrier.
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I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager and I
just would like someone to talk to. I am trying to get on disability
right now. I had a hearing and i'm waiting for a response. I have no
car and I live in a small town with hardly anything so i'm not able to
get to a therapist or doctor. My family doesn't listen to me or
understand me and think i'm stupid for trying to get on disability when
i should be working. I've tried to work and I just can't. I get very
little support and I'm always arguing with my family and most of
the time i feel like slitting my wrists and ending this misery! I just
would like someone who understands what i'm going through!
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I am sorry to hear about your condition, I have an autistic brother
myself that that has to go through some depression, but not as close as
yours. As said earlier, there are many support forums on the internet
that you could join and may be a help to you.
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 14:23 |
Originally posted by strategos
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else. |
Considering that they are usually the MAJORITY in most if not ALL of these countries, mainly US I am talking about, it would make sense that they would be holding alot of the higher parts of the governemtn sheerly because of numbers.
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Hispanics and blacks now outnumber white Americans. Maybe you should do your research more effectively.
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Winterhaze13
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 14:22 |
Originally posted by Cywr
The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else. |
It is my understanding that in most Western countries, White Anglo-Saxons Protestants are not the rulers. But if by 'Western' you actualy meant North American, then maybe you have a point.
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Europe is largely the same case. Let's not try to reinforce the Europe-American rivalry. I don't believe in it.
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Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.
-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Cywr
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 13:21 |
I think the Anglo-Saxon type of government is a pseudo-democracy. You
have to elect your leaders among two main parties, which dominate the
national politics. |
Define 'Anglo-saxon type of government'.
British and American systems of government are very different.
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Arrrgh!!"
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 12:52 |
As for the topic, I think the Anglo-Saxon type of government is a pseudo-democracy. You have to elect your leaders among two main parties, which dominate the national politics. Especially after the end of the Cold War very few parties could present alternative social and political projects. Neo-liberalism dominates the world. You aren't allowed to question capitalism. So peoples elect their leaders according to their personal characteristics.... Also, most important decisions are taken by the multi-national financial capital owners. So the representative liberal democracy is in crisis. And the government by the "demos" is an illusion...
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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hugoestr
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 12:46 |
Originally posted by ITAPEVI
Originally posted by Tobodai
Dont worry, all his posts are really scitzo and make no sense.
Personally the electoral college and the two party system I feel is the least democratic thing a country could have. How can two near identical parties be any better than one? Its not. Washington said this country should hav eno political parties, although I dont think there should be none, i think the more, the merrier.
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I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager and I just would like someone to talk to. I am trying to get on disability right now. I had a hearing and i'm waiting for a response. I have no car and I live in a small town with hardly anything so i'm not able to get to a therapist or doctor. My family doesn't listen to me or understand me and think i'm stupid for trying to get on disability when i should be working. I've tried to work and I just can't. I get very little support and I'm always arguing with my family and most of the time i feel like slitting my wrists and ending this misery! I just would like someone who understands what i'm going through!
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There are support forums for people with depression and social anxiety, which commonly go together--on the net. Google it and you will find them.
Good luck with your condition.
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 12:42 |
Originally posted by ITAPEVI
Originally posted by Tobodai
Dont worry, all his posts are really scitzo and make no sense.
Personally the electoral college and the two party system I feel is the least democratic thing a country could have. How can two near identical parties be any better than one? Its not. Washington said this country should hav eno political parties, although I dont think there should be none, i think the more, the merrier.
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I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager and I just would like someone to talk to. I am trying to get on disability right now. I had a hearing and i'm waiting for a response. I have no car and I live in a small town with hardly anything so i'm not able to get to a therapist or doctor. My family doesn't listen to me or understand me and think i'm stupid for trying to get on disability when i should be working. I've tried to work and I just can't. I get very little support and I'm always arguing with my family and most of the time i feel like slitting my wrists and ending this misery! I just would like someone who understands what i'm going through!
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Itapevi, I see that you are in depression. I was in depression one and a half year ago and I could get rid of it. I don't know if I can help you, but if you want you can send PMs to me. I'll be glad to listen to you... and please take the thought of suicide out of your mind...
Edited by kotumeyil
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Cywr
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 07:54 |
The two-party system hasn't been foisted on people. It's their democratic choice. |
But don't you think a system that encourages tactival voting would merely further this end?
Some people would vote for alternatives if they felt that there was a
viable chance of them getting in to government, but as it is, they
instead vote for the lesser of the two evils.
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Arrrgh!!"
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gcle2003
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 07:46 |
I don't like two-party systems myself. However, since the constitution makes no mention of them - and indeed the founding fathers were anti the whole idea of political parties, it's interesting how they actually come to arise.
There are a couple of reasons. The technical one is the 'first-past-the-post' voting system in single-member constitutencies, a system shared by Britain, which has also suffered from two-party rule. Multi-party systems almost invariably use some form of proportional representation for electing parliaments or congresses. You can't easily do that in a presidential election of course, though you could have a re-run system like Louisiana does for senators (and France does for Presidents).
Possibly more important though, and this also applies to Britain, is that the majority of people who vote do so from habit (when they do vote: around half of Americans don't). They vote the same way every time, twisting the issues to justify their choice, rather than making theit choice based upon the issues - or even on the candidate's qualifications.
As a result parties perpetuate, except in very rare circumstances of social upheaval.
The people who actually vote rationally in elections form a small minority. So how can one argue that a system that provides for the majority of voters (saving them having to think) is undemocratic?
It would surely be elitist and oligarchic to have a system that was preferred by the minority that are looking for a rational political system?
The two-party system hasn't been foisted on people. It's their democratic choice.
(And, incidentally, I do think the primary system helps the situation in the US. I'd like to see something more like it used in the UK.)
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Cywr
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 07:09 |
The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a
democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule
everyone else. |
It is my understanding that in most Western countries, White Anglo-Saxons Protestants are not the rulers.
But if by 'Western' you actualy meant North American, then maybe you have a point.
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Arrrgh!!"
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Spartakus
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Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 06:04 |
The truth is that the US need more parties,more voices.Having only 2 parties for 290.000.000 population is certainly practical but it does not help democracy.
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"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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ITAPEVI
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 21:21 |
Originally posted by Tobodai
Dont worry, all his posts are really scitzo and make no sense.
Personally the electoral college and the two party system I feel is the least democratic thing a country could have. How can two near identical parties be any better than one? Its not. Washington said this country should hav eno political parties, although I dont think there should be none, i think the more, the merrier.
|
I've suffered from depression since I was a teenager and I just would like someone to talk to. I am trying to get on disability right now. I had a hearing and i'm waiting for a response. I have no car and I live in a small town with hardly anything so i'm not able to get to a therapist or doctor. My family doesn't listen to me or understand me and think i'm stupid for trying to get on disability when i should be working. I've tried to work and I just can't. I get very little support and I'm always arguing with my family and most of the time i feel like slitting my wrists and ending this misery! I just would like someone who understands what i'm going through!
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MORUMBI
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 20:10 |
Yeah, I have seen some of his posts, some that are closed right now, I
agree with Tobodai. As for two parties, I agree with Tobodai. I would
rather have over five than have two big ones where if you don't vote
for either candidate your vote doesn't really matter at all.
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ArmenianSurvival
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 19:57 |
Originally posted by Thegeneral
We ARE the majority. And if we weren't, how could we hold so much power. |
Actually under Saddam, the Sunni Arabs, at only 20% of the population
of Iraq, controlled the country. Its not unusual to have the minority
population as the ruling class, especially in countries that America
has secretly conquered. Iraq's current president is a Kurd, so i rest my
case.
Originally posted by EmperorBarbarossa
Itapevi, tell me how many times other than the year 2000 that the
popular vote did not decide the president? |
In 1876, Rutherford Hayes (R) was running against Samuel
Tilden (D) in the presidential elections. 3 States had 2 different sets
of votes, which is obviously a result of election-rigging. When their
electoral votes were tied, they went to congress to hold a vote there.
Time after time it was a deadlock, and no one could seem to decide who
the next president was. So both sides met up at a very fancy hotel, and
decided that Tilden's votes would go to Hayes, as long as he helps out
the post-civil war South (at this time, democrats adamantly supported
the Southern States). So Hayes responded by pulling the Union troops
out of the South, ending post-war reconstruction, which as a result
basically left the south in the same socio-economic class separation
based on race, as it was before the civil war. This event is known as
the Compromise of 1877.
Not too democratic if you ask me. And if you think things in America
are radically different today, then i wouldnt want to wake you from
your dream. Democracy is only given to the people when it is CONVENIENT
for the state to do so. Many instances in history show that when the
state has other needs that are more important to them than the people
($$$$), then democracy is suddenly taken away. The Patriot Act passes
during the same time we invade Iraq....if you dont see a connection
then i dont know what else to say.
Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance
Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
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Tobodai
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 19:47 |
Dont worry, all his posts are really scitzo and make no sense.
Personally the electoral college and the two party system I feel is the least democratic thing a country could have. How can two near identical parties be any better than one? Its not. Washington said this country should hav eno political parties, although I dont think there should be none, i think the more, the merrier.
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 18:38 |
Why the heck did you post that picture? For what purpose does that do
for your argument? Is she a white Protestant or something? Is it just
me or does anybody else feel the same?
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ITAPEVI
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 17:06 |
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MORUMBI
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Thegeneral
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 17:02 |
We ARE the majority. And if we weren't, how could we hold so much power.
And if you were hoping to have a jewish or athiest president or leader, good luck.
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strategos
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Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 16:36 |
Originally posted by Winterhaze13
The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else. |
Considering that they are usually the MAJORITY in most if not ALL of these countries, mainly US I am talking about, it would make sense that they would be holding alot of the higher parts of the governemtn sheerly because of numbers.
Edited by strategos
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http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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