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why the USA are not a democracy?

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: why the USA are not a democracy?
    Posted: 20-Aug-2005 at 09:58
I'm not sure they did, Germany has largely been coalition governments, so it is i think, a bad example. France is a good one though, it has for the msot part been dominated by two major parties.
But this is popularism, nothing to do with 'Anglo-Saxon' crap.
And India isn't a two party system in the vein of the US, or of the UK (which differes from the US in that those two dominant parties fluctuate) for that matter, it has a much stronger regional influence which means that major parties often have to form coalitions with smaller ones in order to gain government.
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2005 at 08:45
Originally posted by gcle2003

Perhaps it should be putmore broadly, saying that countries that inherited their political traditions from Britain tend to have two parties (including Ireland and India for instance). It's not just ex-colonies: two-party Germany and Japan copied the UK in their post-WWII constitutions.
I'm not sure why this should be. I guess it would make a thread on its own.



I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Could you please elaborate! Thanks.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2005 at 08:36

Originally posted by Cywr

In the Anglo-Saxon type of government there are two or three dominant - traditional parties. Ex: Republicans - Democrats or Conservatives-liberals-workers' party.


There is nothing exclusicly 'Anglo-Saxon' about that.

While that's true in principle, de facto the Anglo-Saxon countries do tend to have two parties that alternate in power, in the US since the 1860s and in the UK since the 1920s (and before that you can go back to the 18th century).

Perhaps it should be put more broadly, saying that countries that inherited their political traditions from Britain tend to have two parties (including Ireland and India for instance). It's not just ex-colonies: two-party Germany and Japan copied the UK in their post-WWII constitutions.

I'm not sure why this should be. I guess it would make a thread on its own.

 

 

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 21:40

Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Also, I can't remember the last time anyone gave a crap about the religion of a political candidate in an election of any importance....Maybe Kennedy in 1960, but he won as a Catholic......Certainly no WASP.


I heard that in Kennedy's time, people thought that he would take orders from the Pope on what to do .

Americans don't make the best Catholics.  They have never liked being told what to do!  

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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 20:56
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Also, I can't remember the last time anyone gave a crap about the religion of a political candidate in an election of any importance....Maybe Kennedy in 1960, but he won as a Catholic......Certainly no WASP.


I heard that in Kennedy's time, people thought that he would take orders from the Pope on what to do .

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 20:00
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

lame predictions btw, I wouldn't take them too seriously.
2050 is still 45 years away, you'd never know what will happen in the next 45 years.


Media sensationalism, but from present statistics, assuming no change (yeah right), that swhat would happen.
Most national censuses don't bother with anything longer than 25 year projections (and there are multiple, its a range that tries to take in to account different possible outcomes), as its expensive and time consuming and the longer the time peroid, the less reliable.
One thing is for sure, there will be more people that identify as being Hispanic in the US, and that an increasing number of them won't even speak Spanish.
And to think i could well have ended up with a job doing this
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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 19:46
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Originally posted by strategos

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else.

Considering that they are usually the MAJORITY in most if not ALL of these countries, mainly US I am talking about, it would make sense that they would be holding alot of the higher parts of the governemtn sheerly because of numbers.

Hispanics and blacks now outnumber white Americans. Maybe you should do your research more effectively. 

You have no knowledge, my friend. Ethnics in the USA

white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)

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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 18:56
For all we know the world could have blown itself up by then.   It is very hard to predict such things so far from now.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 18:54
lame predictions btw, I wouldn't take them too seriously.
2050 is still 45 years away, you'd never know what will happen in the next 45 years.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 17:10
I see i was right.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 17:07
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

And according to The Economist by 2030 white Americans will only be 54% and by 2050 they will be a minority.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 17:03
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

It never said that W.A.S.P's ran Europe too, I see how that can be misleading to through the stupidity of some.


Originally posted by Winterhaze12

The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else.


To which i suggested that perhaps by 'west' you merely meant N. America, or just the US, and you went off with your Europe-America rivalry crap.

I believe the estimate was for 2050, for a non-white (excluding hispanic whites) majority, still, it doesn't really help your claim that the West (or perhaps just the US) isn't a democracy.


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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 16:42

And according to The Economist Hispanics will by 2020 be the majority of Americans.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 16:41
It never said that W.A.S.P's ran Europe too, I see how that can be misleading to through the stupidity of some.
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 16:08
Europe is largely the same case. Let's not try to reinforce the Europe-American rivalry. I don't believe in it.


Same case as what? Ruled by Anglo-Saxon Protestants?
And WTF does European-American rivalry got to do with this? You claimed that Most Western countries are ruled by 'WASPs', never mind the fact that this is a phrase that only has currency in N. America, i'm intrested in knowing how most European countries are ruled by a WASP minority.

Hispanics and blacks now outnumber white Americans. Maybe you should do your research more effectively.


white 81.7%, black 12.9%, Asian 4.2%, Amerindian and Alaska native 1%, native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander 0.2% (2003 est.)
note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.)


What was that about research?
And even if you were right about the US, what about the rest of the 'west'?

In the Anglo-Saxon type of government there are two or three dominant - traditional parties. Ex: Republicans - Democrats or Conservatives-liberals-workers' party.


There is nothing exclusicly 'Anglo-Saxon' about that.


Edited by Cywr
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 15:37

Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Also, I can't remember the last time anyone gave a crap about the religion of a political candidate in an election of any importance....Maybe Kennedy in 1960, but he won as a Catholic......Certainly no WASP.

People may not consciensly think about religion, but it is a major factor.   There was a poll that asked, would you vote for a Jewish or Athiest candidate for president.  The vast majority said they would not, and it is completly understandable.  Religion is what bases many of the candidates platforms.

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 15:26

Originally posted by Cywr

I think the Anglo-Saxon type of government is a pseudo-democracy. You have to elect your leaders among two main parties, which dominate the national politics.


Define 'Anglo-saxon type of government'.
British and American systems of government are very different.

In the Anglo-Saxon type of government there are two or three dominant - traditional parties. Ex: Republicans - Democrats or Conservatives-liberals-workers' party. You cannot imagine that any other parites can be effective in the government. In the continental European style of government more parties, which can be also very marginal, can be effective at some degree. But I think, in terms of democracy, there isn't a much big difference. As  said in my previous post, especially after the cold war, few parties could present an alternative social and political project. The left wing parties accepted neoliberalism without questioning and they only wanted a softened version of it ( You know the "Third Way" syndrom). Again as I said in my previous post, the representative liberal democracy is in crisis, because you elect your governors within certain boundaries but the vital decisions which determine the world's fate are taken by a few global actors (especially the owners of financial capital). That's why I think that today the concept of democracy is very illusive and deceiving... I mean no more the "demos" rules about the vital issues...  

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 15:11
Also, I can't remember the last time anyone gave a crap about the religion of a political candidate in an election of any importance....Maybe Kennedy in 1960, but he won as a Catholic......Certainly no WASP.
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  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 15:09
W.A.S.P's are what make up the USA so it is understandable to have most of the government of the same group.

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 15:07
Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Originally posted by strategos

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

The U.S.,and the rest of the Western world for that matter is not a democracy because the minority (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) rule everyone else.

Considering that they are usually the MAJORITY in most if not ALL of these countries, mainly US I am talking about, it would make sense that they would be holding alot of the higher parts of the governemtn sheerly because of numbers.

Hispanics and blacks now outnumber white Americans. Maybe you should do your research more effectively. 

 

Er, ehhmmm. Your off bud. Whitey is still numerically the predominant racial identity in the US.

African Americans are about 10% of the U.S. population; Hispanics about the same, but with a higher birth rate and immigration rate.  The vast majority are of European ancestry, Protestant or Catholic.  W.A.S.P.s predominate in the south, but are vastly different from New England and New York WASPS in both background and outlook.

Catholics predominate in many industrial/urban areas; Protestants in those more rural, but there is enormous interaction and intermarriage among them (including my own family). 



Edited by pikeshot1600
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