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Iranian Diversity

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Ince View Drop Down
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iranian Diversity
    Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 11:22
Originally posted by kalhur

as i said  before there are no population in iran  with a realy pure racial background and kurds are no exception . maybe kurds in turkey have low frequency of J1, but in iran and iraq there is a lot of J1 too.
the funny thing is absence of Q and N haplogroup among azerisBig smile when there are 4% Q and 2,5%N in iranShocked- lt seems the turc nationalist are very disappointed by this resultLOL so far they have very low altaic y haplo . may be it is different in mtdna studies because language is often associated with mother than father. 
i had a chilian friend that loved his mother and diden't care att all for his father and i asked him why?
he answered one can always be sure that their mother is 100% their mother, but when it comes to father side nothing is sureLOL


Heres one for MtDNA.


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Colonel
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 11:07
Originally posted by kalhur

as i said  before there are no population in iran  with a realy pure racial background and kurds are no exception . maybe kurds in turkey have low frequency of J1, but in iran and iraq there is a lot of J1 too.
the funny thing is absence of Q and N haplogroup among azerisBig smile when there are 4% Q and 2,5%N in iranShocked- lt seems the turc nationalist are very disappointed by this resultLOL so far they have very low altaic y haplo . may be it is different in mtdna studies because language is often associated with mother than father. 
i had a chilian friend that loved his mother and diden't care att all for his father and i asked him why?
he answered one can always be sure that their mother is 100% their mother, but when it comes to father side nothing is sureLOL


I am pretty sure Kurds of Syria and Northern Iraq will have a small percentage of J1.  Kurds on whole have high J2 at around 25% average, most is found in Georgian Kurds at around 40% and Iraqi Kurds 20-25&.   Kurds of east Turkey were more further away and more isolated from arabs and that might explain low J1. 

The and Q and N of Iran could most likely be from the Turkmens from Northern Iran who really are Mongoloid.   J1 of Iran will be mostly from the south where their meant to be 2-3 million arabs.


Edited by Ince - 14-Apr-2010 at 11:34
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kalhur View Drop Down
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 10:42
as i said  before there are no population in iran  with a realy pure racial background and kurds are no exception . maybe kurds in turkey have low frequency of J1, but in iran and iraq there is a lot of J1 too.
the funny thing is absence of Q and N haplogroup among azerisBig smile when there are 4% Q and 2,5%N in iranShocked- lt seems the turc nationalist are very disappointed by this resultLOL so far they have very low altaic y haplo . may be it is different in mtdna studies because language is often associated with mother than father. 
i had a chilian friend that loved his mother and diden't care att all for his father and i asked him why?
he answered one can always be sure that their mother is 100% their mother, but when it comes to father side nothing is sureLOL
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Ince View Drop Down
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  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 09:57
Originally posted by kalhur

iran at the time of achemenid empire was more mixed than USA is today.iranian were very tolrent toward other non iranian nations.
 only reading the scriptors of cyrus the great about the respect of defeated babylon's population give us a great insight in the iranian culture at that time.
today even in the most remote and unreached tribal places in iran like lorestan and zagros mountain the population are result of racial mixture of many ancient non aryan population with later  arrived aryan imigrants.
what made iran  a great nation is the teaching of zaratostra which is our cultural father.
 the shape of face or special phenotype is not of importance. 
you can have in a same family brothers and systers with different colour of eyes and hair and skin in iran due to the such a rich racial mixture.
 one thing for the sure there is no danger of inbreding in iranBig smile


Even Kurds who claim they are pure are even mixed.  As it depends on the location.   Genetic testing found that Kurds of Georgia are closer to Georgians where as Kurds of Turkey were closer to Turks of turkey and Iranians.  Kurds of North Iraq were related to Iranians and populations that live in Northern Iraq like Assyrians and Arabs. 

Here Y-DNA results for average per country or population so not every ethnic group will have the same make up certain citys will be different to another.  http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

Kurds have no J1 Big smile



Region/Haplogroup
I
R1a
R1b
G
J2
J1
E
T
L
Q
N
Others

Syria
5
10
13.5
3
17
30
11.5
5
3
0
0
2

Georgia
3.5
9
11
31
24.5
2
4.5
2.5
3
0
0
10.5
Iran
3
16.5
6.5
10
12
10
4.5
3
4
4
2.5
27
Iraq
5
6.5
11
3
27
31
11
7
3
0
0
0

Armenia
4
8
28
11
22
0
5
6
4
0
2
12
Azerbaijan
3
7
11
18
20
12
6
11
0
0
0
15


Kurdistan (Turkey)
25
19.5
8
12.5
7
0
2.5
6.5
0
0
0
18.5


Region/Haplogroup
I1
I2a
I2b
R1a
R1b
G2a
J2
J1
E1b1b
T (+ L)
Q
N1c1

Turkey
1
4
0.5
7.5
15
11
21
12.5
11
2
2
4


Edited by Ince - 14-Apr-2010 at 10:12
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Earl
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  Quote kalhur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2010 at 08:45
iran at the time of achemenid empire was more mixed than USA is today.iranian were very tolrent toward other non iranian nations.
 only reading the scriptors of cyrus the great about the respect of defeated babylon's population give us a great insight in the iranian culture at that time.
today even in the most remote and unreached tribal places in iran like lorestan and zagros mountain the population are result of racial mixture of many ancient non aryan population with later  arrived aryan imigrants.
what made iran  a great nation is the teaching of zaratostra which is our cultural father.
 the shape of face or special phenotype is not of importance. 
you can have in a same family brothers and systers with different colour of eyes and hair and skin in iran due to the such a rich racial mixture.
 one thing for the sure there is no danger of inbreding in iranBig smile
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  Quote Molokane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 19:54
Hi there everybody! I'm new here to the forums, and I'm just browsing people's posts about Slavic and Eurasian cultures and there seems to be a lot of speculation! I was wondering if I could give my own two cents on the subject of origins and diversity of the Iranian population. Sleepy

Please note that I am not here on an agenda to draw racist remarks. I am simply here to discuss theories and speculations of anthropology stemmed from curiosity of my origins. 

I have personally visited Iran seldom, and my parents have lived there since their 20's and emigrated to the Americas. They have made several visits in the past several years, and I have asked them for anthropological purposes to photograph the populations as well as several of their families (Iranian families are very big and traditional just like the old days hence the 67+ million population). And wow am I surprised to see the large ethnic diversity of this very land. It's on par with America, and there's no doubt that this behemoth of a civilization was once an extensive region of trade and tradition.

I have speculated why is this so, and who exactly are these people?

Among theories I have read on AEHF, they seem no different from others nor wikipedia articles. But then again, these are only theories provided by several others which yield contradictions. For example, my mother told me she has ancestors from Urmia, Tabriz, and the Fars province. These are Turkish regions consisted of the Qashqai, Seljuk Turks, and the ancient Perisans themselves. If you look further into their speculated origins, the Qashqai are a mixture of Lurish ethnic background and Oghuz Turks; the Seljuk Turks are also origins of the Oghuz Turks; and the Perisans, I'll leave that for later. So to speak...

It seems that the Oghuz Turks are dense among the Azeri population or perhaps to a certain extent, significantly contribute to their development as a minority. Oghuz Turks are from Transcaucasia, which is a Western Mongolian/Chinese region, an ethnic group Slavicized by the Russians according to documentation. I would expect these phenotypes in depiction as: almond shaped eyes, blue/green eyes, white skin, tall, straight brown hair, wide Nordic noses, like the girl below:


If this ethnic group is dispersed among Iran, why are these so called Oghuz/Azeri Turks portraying Semitic phenotypes (coarse curly hair, bushy eyebrows, hooked noses, dark eyes, long eye lashes) seemingly 40% of Iran's population? More specifically, why is it that this ethnic group of a Caucasian/European/Mongoloid background do not adhere to their genetic maps? It is said that they have mixed with Iranic elements, such as the Persians. But are not the ancient Persians a reflection of European race? This draws me to a conclusion that many citations of the origins of Azeri/Oghuz Turks are perhaps misleading, that they are in fact, derivatives of Semitic cultures, and not necessarily partial to Transcaucasia.

Or perhaps Caucasians in Iran were simply that: a predominant group of similar skull types to Indo-European branches. Meaning more in depth, the Iranian region was a capital for cultural exchange. I have noticed many Caucasian/European intermarriages which produce a predominantly European phenotype, and this was perhaps the case with Iran as it saw many faces of different cultures. The Russians to the north, the Greeks/Byzantium/Roman empires to the west, all possibly responsible for the European phenotypes in Iran. The Jews have dwelled for thousands of years in the Persian empire, but usually are very incisive in genetic imprinting as they have their spouses convert to the religion of Judaism. On the contrary, their semitic cousins, the Arabs, and many ancient Semitic tribes (Assyrians, Babylonians, Akaddians, etc.) might have gradually absorbed Indo-European Persians and many of their tribes while adopting their cultures and orthodox practices. Perhaps the Persians were an Indo-European race, yes, but sparse in origins with a very attractive lifestyle. Similar to how the Arabs in Turkey were fond of Turkish traditions and gradually adopted their culture simultaneously leaving their genetic footprints among the faces of a morphed society. The Mongols, the Arabs, the Indian tribes to the East, and many ancient Semitic civilizations shaped an early Persia. Linguistics should not be wholly responsible in determining the genetic make up of a country, especially since the Hungarians and Finns speak Uralic languages.
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