English language began in Turkey
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32269
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 16:59
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: English language began in Turkey
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: English language began in Turkey
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 10:46
Press Association – 15 hours ago
English is descended from a language that emerged in Turkey 8,000 and 9,500 years ago, new research has suggested. Scientists traced the origin of all Indo-European languages to Anatolia, an ancient region of western Asia which covers most of modern Turkey. Indo-European languages span a wide linguistic spectrum including English, German, French, Spanish, Russian, Polish, Persian, Hindi and ancient Greek. All evolved from a common ancestor, scientists believe. Experts think Indo-European languages spread out from the Middle East along with agriculture. Scientists led by Remco Bouckaert, from the University of Auckland in New Zealand, traced the origins of Indo-European languages using a method borrowed from evolutionary biologists. Instead of comparing DNA from different species, the researchers looked at "cognates" which are words with a common origin. One example is "mother", "mutter" (German) and "madre" (Spanish). Such similar words could not plausibly have occurred by chance. By modelling the evolution of hundreds of such words through time, the researchers were able to pinpoint their birthplace in what is now modern Turkey. The research is published in the journal Science. ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Replies:
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 13:27
Did they read Origins Nick?!? Excellent link you have!Regards...
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Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 13:48
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Thai for mother is mai, same in Lao, Chinese is muquin, Vietnamese me or ma, me in Burmese, according to this theory then they originated in Turkey too.
Archaeology has pointed out for a long long time that the British migrated across Europe, entering Europe from Turkey, however before that they were in Khazakstan and Russia, why this theory singles out Turkey is a mystery. ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 16:03
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"Post-Classical Middle East" is not a proper forum for this subject, it doesn't talk about just English but all Indo-European languages, and it is not about modern Turkey but ancient Anatolia. I had talked about it in this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32268 - Ancient Anatolia, Original Land of Indo-Europeans!
And above map doesn't just show the distribution of words for "mother" across Europe but a large part of Eurasia where Indo-European speakers live. It should be mentioned that "mother" (from proto-IE mater) differs from "mamma" or other similar words, everyone knows that "ma" is among the first words babies learn to speak, so "moma","ma", ... in that map don't relate to other Indo-European words. ------------- 
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 16:30
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Mo-ther has Goddess first syllable Cyrus.In other languages,they prefer Ma=support/supportive/supports... I can talk about language only but not about who came from where.Demotic language structures got them all.Origins talk about that we share same syllables from Ancient "Egyptian"&"Greek" as we use to call those civilizations.Mo=Womb/Womby/verb?(births/nests/?) |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 19:08
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Could all these words for mother or Ma-Ma have simply been derived from baby-talk?
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 24-Aug-2012 at 23:40
| I can not trace their origin but possibilities exist.All words started as Onomatopoeia of human&natural voices.....Next step could be:order them by predefined rules. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2012 at 00:28
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It is awsome. One word(mother) but hundred variation. That reminds me a myth. According to Herodotus, the first language is Phrygian language. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2012 at 02:02
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So, if that is true, then the Afro-Asiatic and Indo-Europeand are connected, and the Nostratic Hypothesis is right. Which is an interesting thought, because the Nostratic has been villified for some time now.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2012 at 20:03
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The human journey http://www.humanjourney.us/indoEurope.html - http://www.humanjourney.us/indoEurope.html ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 09:20
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I wonder that why mother word in Hittite language (anna) so different? It is a Indo-European language. I suppose that, Hittite culture was a bridge culture between Europe and Iran-India. English Hittite Turkish Mother Anna Ana/Anne Father Atta Ata ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 09:31
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It is Hindu of that time or some of ancient Hindu dialects as it looks now...Turkish today is full of Egyptian&also others(Hindu?) elements.During my travel in Istanbul I asked my Hosts to talk among themselves on Turkish only and I listened them...Turkey is place where civilizations have met long time ago and exchanged all they have including languages...Turkish today has all voices of ancient Egyptian except "C'.All voices that "Slavic" today use are voices in Turkish+C... |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 10:04
The Hittite word "Anna" (Hanna) actually meant "grandmother, ancestor", Persian "nana" means the same, there are also Old Greek "Anon", Latin "Anus", German "Ahn", Armenian "Han", ... Lithuanian "Anita" (mother-in-law) and English "Aunt" have the same Indo-European origin too.
And the Hittite word for "father" is "Tata", the same word is used in all other Indo-Eureopan languages, such as Latin, Greek, Sanskrit and all Slavic, Celtic and Baltic languages. There should be a "t" to "d" sound change in the Germanic language, so there is "daddy" in English. -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 10:16
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NaNa we use also for Grand Ma...In Serbo-Croation nana is still in usage but syllables are "Egyptian&Greek" NaNa=Offering offer...Nobody can deny it till she offers candies! Also NaNu exists:Offering beginning which is more than obvious cause She is mother of your Mother or Father...Regards Cyrus...P.S. In Demotic it is NaNNu=Offers to Mother's beginning/start |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 15:17
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medenaywe, words and their meanings change through time, "Nana" is a modern Persian word, in the Middle and Old Persian this word was probably more similar to "Hanna", there could be also several different reasons that people create the words, for example someone can say "Na" means "mother" and "Nana" means "mother's mother" (grandmother). -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 16:12
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Cause I am still not officially recognized source can go with it.Regards Cyrus.
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Posted By: oxydracae
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2012 at 03:19
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_theory As per this article back in 6000 BC, Black Sea was fresh water lake and it looks as if Northern Turkey and Southern Ukraine were contiguous geographical regions. #My Opinion I believe that proto-Indo-European people were settled all across Black Sea (back then when it was a fresh water lake). Those who were living on the western and Southern shores of Black Sea emerged as centum-language speakers and those who were inhabiting Northern shores emerged as satem-language speakers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum-satem_isogloss - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum-satem_isogloss And probably the Eastern shore of the Black Sea was inhabited by speakers of Caucasian Languages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_languages - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_languages
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2012 at 09:25
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If the theory is true then it can be said Kurds are the only Indo-European people who still live in the original land, and Old Persian, Armenian and Greek were probably the closest languages to the original language. -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2012 at 09:54
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It looks very rational your statement now Cyrus!We spoke similar or the same once?!?
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Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 07:37
Sorry, if I am wrong. I have taken the words(Anna-Atta) from this web site http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/hitol-BF-X.html - http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/hitol-BF-X.html ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 12:56
There is no ancient dictionary, if you want to know the exact meaning of old Indo-European words, like Old Persian, Hittite or Ancient Greek, you should compare them, for example as you read here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%B0%D5%A1%D5%B6 - http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D5%B0%D5%A1%D5%B6 Old Armenian Han means "grandmother", there could be also some loanwords in other old languages in that region, like this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannahannah - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannahannah -> Hannahannah (from Hittite hannas "grandmother") is a Hurrian Mother Goddess. -------------
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Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 13:00
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Hannahannah - I suppose like in Pidjin English the effect of the word is doubled if it's repeated - so it would be lie the grandmother of all - a true Mother Goddess! Thank you for this info, Cyrus.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2012 at 20:16
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As in the Sumerian mother goddess Inanna (also known as Ishtar)
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 04:45
as iranian turkmen i say this not true persians dont have nana word at all its turkish word they call mother madar and father pedar grandmother madarbozorg grand father perdarbozorg so where is nana in modern persian ? it is tukish u know it better than me ! turkmens call there fahter dada and mother nana (enne atta) grand parents from mother side is baba (bava) and mama and from my father side is kaka(grandfather) and ejea (grandmother) plz dont do this again ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 07:15
In my dialect of Kurmanji Kurdish we use the word Kake for father and grandfather. Also Atte is also used for mother by some as well. The speakers of my dialect are Alevis, I suspect it might be a Turkish influence. But never heard Turks in Turkey use Kake for father or grandfather. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 07:36
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Kake does sound similar to Dada, Papa and Father
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 08:10
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Posted By: benzin
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 11:03
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I think the word for mother and father developed from more or less the same base but seperately around the world. ma-ma and pa-pa are the most easily to say words for a human being. I guess its more of a coincidence that the same forms exists far from each other.
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Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 12:22
| How much consideration has been given to the use of latin with the spread of words like mother and father....etc....? |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 12:30
im not from turkey i live in gonbad kavus ( old gorgan ) and im iranian . where do u live ? dyarbak ? iraq ? and atta means father like other tukish languge ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 18:29
I am from Malatya,Turkey. Atte is used for Mother in my dialect of Kurdish but only by some and Alek as well by some also used is the most common Kurdish word for mother Daye. For father we use Bave/Bawe and also Kake/Kako. I have only ever heard people of dialect use Kake/Kako for father. If it is used by Turkmens then it is very likely came from Turkic influence. Most Kurdish dialects have abandonded the Iranic root for mother and father for some reason and adopted words like Daye and Bawe where as the Iranic rooted are Mader and Peder which Persian has retained. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 19:20
ince if we use this as it doesn't mean that's not kurdish remember this ! nana in german means mother so in your view this is not germanic ? or mother use by so many people no one can say these are yours and that is mine ! ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 20:15
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these words are commin wtih turkmens and germens and english or some european turkmen german english italiyan persian istanbul turkish tabriz turkish pomozor Pflaume plum pomozor goje erik gavalı kertob/kortob Kartoffel Potato patata sibzamini patates yeralma(commen in all tr ) bulut Wolke Cloud nuvola abr bulut bulut eth/es/iys/iyth Geruch smell odore bu koku iy alma Apfel Apple mela siyb alma alma ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2012 at 20:23
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in swedish they use plommon for plum and for Cloud for cloud and apple for apple
------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: Qaradag
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2012 at 03:15
Your Turkmen-Sahra Türkmen? Very nice to have you on board. In Azeri Turkish its as following: Ata for father, Ana for mother, Baba/Dədə for grandfather and Nənə/Qarınənə for grandmother. |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2012 at 07:40
------------- yomud are free people |