Bodhidharma
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the South Asian subcontinent
Forum Discription: The Indian sub-continent and South Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30513
Printed Date: 29-Apr-2024 at 13:36
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Bodhidharma
Posted By: okamido
Subject: Bodhidharma
Date Posted: 26-Oct-2011 at 23:09
Much like Christianity with Paul, Buddhism owes a great deal of success to the travels of the Daruma/ Bodhidharma, who took Buddhism to China, and some say Japan as well. |
Replies:
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2011 at 19:22
 Bodhidharma was a strange old man who had a beard when monks were expected to be clean-shaven. He seems to have been very gruff and eccentric, cutting off his own eyelids so he wouldn't fall asleep during meditation and staring at a wall for seven years until his legs dropped off. He even forced his apprentice to cut off his own arm before letting him into the temple ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Oct-2011 at 19:09
 In Japan representations of Bodhidharma known as Daruma are a popular childrens toy. You can push him over, but he always rights himself ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2011 at 09:02
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I read of a Persian connection to Bodhidharma, but that might simply have had something to do with him having blue eyes maybe.
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2011 at 13:54
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He seems to have been an aristocrat - a prince of the Palava Dynasty, living in 5th-6th cent. AD, and is portrayed as a barbarian in the Chinese Buddhist art. Supposedly he started the physical training of the Shaolin monks, but this was probably a legend that started in 17 century AD.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2011 at 19:16
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It's possible. The Indians developed a new martial art from the Greek pankration which combined kickboxing with wrestling
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Nov-2011 at 21:11
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Like Buddha, it is believed Bodhidharma was once a prince. His strict discipline and willingness to inflict pain on his disciples suggests a warrior-caste background, as does his use of martial arts
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2011 at 19:19
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Bodhidarma was known for his love of koans: deliberately unanswerable questions. If a monk failed to provide a suitable answer, he was beaten. Here's an example: Someone put a goose egg inside a bottle, the egg hatched and he fed the baby goose until it grew larger than the bottle’s neck. How can you release the goose from the bottle without harming the goose or breaking the bottle? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2011 at 19:11
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Here's the answer: the "goose" is actually the monk himself. The "bottle" is the impossible question constraining his mind. Only by casting aside the restraints on his imagination (years of social conditioning) will he be able to begin the path to enlightenment: http://www.taos-greece.com/Taos.asp?section=3&page=magazineItem&recID=191 - Link ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2011 at 19:01
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Bodhidharma wasn't afraid to question authority. He once told the king
that his patronage of Buddhism brought no merit as all the donations
were made with selfish thoughts in mind
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Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2011 at 22:45
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In re: "He once told the king that his patronage of Buddhism brought no merit as all the donations were made with selfish thoughts in mind" I've heard three versions of that tale, one involving the Korean King, one involving the Vietnamese King, and one involving the Emperor of China. The last is likely to be the more correct. In any event, all versions agree in that the Emperor specifically asked Bodhidarma how much 'credit' had he accrued for the next life, given the monasteries he had built in this. Ergo Bodhidarma was not challenging authority. He was giving a honest answer to a question, which was none. Now, had the Emperor done such with no thoughts of a reward, the essence of Zen, then in all likelihood his acts would have been meritorious, though I suspect Bodhidarma would not have stated such. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2011 at 19:12
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The Emperor was initially offended and sent Bodhidharma away. However, he later regretted his actions and sent a messenger requesting the old monk's return. Bodhidharma refused.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2011 at 19:22
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When asked questions by their students, Zen masters typically gave bizarre answers. Here's an example: "What is the Buddha?" -Three pounds of flax ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2011 at 00:00
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Nick, you are aware, of course, that the great majority of Buddhists in the world are not Zen. And that they believe in myriad deities many of which have been carried over from religions which pre-dated Buddhism, which like Confucianism and Daoism, have become conflated with Buddhism. Even meditation practices differ between Buddhists. In Vietnam, China, and Korea, meditation is generally reserved for monks and nuns, the exception being the Zen monasteries. Yet Cambodian Buddhism regards meditation as beneficial for all, and with many temples having specific hours reserved for public meditation. Vietnam was traditionally Confucian in the North, and Buddhist in the old South (modern Center), and it is said that Buddhism varies from province to province as one travels from north to south. In the modern South (the Mekong Delta) both Cambodian and Vietnamese Buddhism coexist. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2011 at 19:06
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Zen is just one small sect of Mahayana, but probably the most extreme. Its emphasis on strict mental discipline made it very appealing for warriors like the Samurai
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2011 at 17:20
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Even when asked the same question by different novices, a master could give different answers. When asked if there was Buddha nature in a dog, he said NO! But when asked a few days later by a different disciple, he said YES! ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2011 at 19:03
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The only interpretation i can suggest is that the dogs the master was referring to were the students themselves. One was ready, but the other was not
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Dec-2011 at 20:45
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This might be useful for Polisny if he wants to discuss the link between Zen and the Samurai http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BNfuSJ7cvnIC&lpg=PP1&dq=bodhidharma&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false - Bodhidarma's teachings ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 11-Dec-2011 at 19:16
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If a tree falls down in the forest and there's nobody around, does it make a noise?
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2011 at 19:20
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Some say it won't make a sound, as the definition of sound requires someone to hear it. What are your thoughts on this?
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Posted By: oxydracae
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2012 at 05:44
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^^ from my observations till now, I would say any tree if falls makes a noise, so a remote tree in remote forest will also make a noise. What was Bodhi's reply ?
P.S: Pallav and Pahlav were quiet confusing words, may be they caused confuiom in Chinese as Bodhidjarma is from Pallav (South India) or Pahlav (Persia).
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2012 at 19:15
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Bodhi probably didn't know the right answer either. He asked deliberately unsolveable questions in the hope of opening the minds of his students
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 06-Jul-2012 at 19:23
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Bodhidharma anthology http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BNfuSJ7cvnIC&lpg=PP1&dq=bodhidharma&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false%20 - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BNfuSJ7cvnIC&lpg=PP1&dq=bodhidharma&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2012 at 05:17
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: SuryaVajra
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2012 at 07:17
That would require an assumption that India had no martial tradition before the Hellenic age.That theory would require a clear comparison of Greek and ancient Bharatha styles, which so far has not been produced. But it is clear in the Mahabharata and the Puranas that many of the popular sports mentioned in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas - Vedas and the epics have their origins in military training, such as wrestling (maladvandva), chariot-racing (rathachalan), horse-riding (ashvarohana), boxing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musti_yuddha - musti yuddha ) and archery (dhanurvidya). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_martial_arts#cite_note-4 - Competitions were held not just as a contest of the players' prowess but also as a means of finding a bridegroom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjuna - Arjuna , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama - Rama and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhartha_Gautama - Siddhartha Gautama all won their consorts in such tournaments.(from Wikipedia) |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 12-Jul-2012 at 19:15
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Every civilisation needs a well-trained military, but did the ancient Indians have a manual for some standardised form of unarmed combat similar to kung-fu or MMA? ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: SuryaVajra
Date Posted: 13-Jul-2012 at 01:47
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This indigenous martial arts, under the name of Kalari exists only in South India today. Kalarippayat
is said to be the world's original martial art. Originating at least 1,300 years ago, India's
Kalaripayit is the oldest martial art taught today. It is also the most
potentially violent, because students advance from unarmed combat to the use of
swords, sharpened flexible metal lashes, and peculiar three-bladed daggers. More
than 2,000 years old, it was developed by warriors of the Cheras kingdom in
Kerala. Training followed strict rituals and guidelines. The entrance to the 14 m-by-7 m arena, or kalari, faced east and had a bare earth floor. Fighters took Shiva and Shakti, the god and goddess of power, as their deities. From unarmed kicks and punches, kalarippayat warriors would graduate to sticks, swords, spears and daggers and study the marmas—the 107 vital spots on the human body where a blow can kill. Training was conducted in secret, the lethal warriors unleashed as a surprise weapon against the enemies of Cheras.  Father and founder of Zen Buddhism (called C’han in China), Boddidharma, a Brahmin born in Kacheepuram in Tamil Nadu, in 522 A.D. arrived at the courts of the Chinese Emperor Liang Nuti, of the 6th dynasty. He taught the Chinese monks Kalaripayattu,
If you read the Mahabharata, you'll see how important combat was in Vedic society. Why do you think there was a warrior caste?The Kshtriyas It was only the Kshtriyas who had a code of war in the ancient world.Here are three of the many clauses (1) a warrior in armor must not fight with one not so clad (2) one should fight only one enemy and cease fighting if the opponent is disabled, (3) aged men, women and children, the retreating, or one who held a straw in his lips as a sign of unconditional surrender should not be killed. As early as as the 4th century B.C. Megasthenes noticed a peculiar trait of Indian warfare. "Whereas among other nations it is usual, in the contests of war, to ravage the soil and thus to reduce it to an uncultivated waste, among the Indians, on the contrary, by whom husbandmen are regarded as a class that is sacred and inviolable, the tillers of the soil, even when battle is raging in their neighborhood, are undisturbed by any sense of danger, for the combatants on either side in waging the conflict make carnage of each other, but allow those engaged in husbandry to remain quite unmolested. Besides, they never ravage an enemy's land with fire, nor cut down its trees."When
a conqueror felt that he was in a position to invade the foreigner's country, he
sent an ambassador with the message: 'Fight or submit.' More than 5000 years ago
India recognized that the person of the ambassador was inviolable. This
was a great service that ancient Hinduism rendered to the cause of international
law. It was the religious force that invested
the person of the herald or ambassador with an inviolable sanctity in the
ancient world. The Mahabharata rules
that the king who killed an envoy would sink into hell with all his
ministers. Besides, the Kshtriyas have successfully defended India for the past 7000 years of recorded history. Hindu military science recognizes two kinds of warfare - the dharmayuddha and the kutayuddha. Dharmayuddha is war carried on the principles of dharma, meaning here the Ksatradharma or the law of Kings and Warriors. In other words, it was a just and righteous war which had the approval of society. On the other hand, kuttayuddha was unrighteous war. It was a crafty fight carried on in secret. The Hindu science of warfare values both niti and saurya i.e. ethical principles and valor. It was therefore realized that the waging of war without regard to moral standards degraded the institution into mere animal ferocity. A monarch desirous of dharma vijaya should conform to the code of ethics enjoined upon warriors.  The principles regulating the two kinds of warfare are elaborately described in the Dharmasutras and Dharmasastras, the epics (Ramayana and Mahabharata), the Arthasastra treatises of Kautalya, Kamandaka, and Sukra. Hindu India possessed the classical fourfold force of chariots, elephants, horsemen, and infantry, collectively known as the Caturangabala.  You can read more at this sites, from where I obtained this information http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_martial_arts http://www.hinduwisdom.info/War_in_Ancient_India.htm |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 29-Sep-2012 at 20:51
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These codes of conduct are in some ways beneficial to the conqueror: he could use the intact land and peasants of his defeated enemy to produce food and levy taxes
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Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2012 at 21:49
There can be no logical explanation/interpretation of koans. Your answer will only get you a whack on the head. The purpose of the koans is to let you think of how the impossible can be possible so desperately that suddenly, you get an epiphany and release (presumably from nirvana but at least the baggages from this world).
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2012 at 22:01
Well presuming I buy that.... and I'm not far.... my question to the great Master would be...'what's your take on the undead in general and chinese hoping zombies in specific? Are these aberrant forms of unlife due to really baddddd karma?' Or is there another explanation. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |