The term "Turk" is not an ethnic term
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28963
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 15:16
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Topic: The term "Turk" is not an ethnic term
Posted By: ancalimon
Subject: The term "Turk" is not an ethnic term
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2010 at 05:09
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I don't understand when people talk about a Turk ethnic identity. There never was a Turk ethnic identity in history until the Christians started to call all Muslims as Turks. There were always many different ethnics inside the Turkic identity. It wasn't also related to race as anyone that was connected to the Turkic bod was considered as the same race. It was about belonging to the land. |
Replies:
Posted By: Altar
Date Posted: 12-Dec-2010 at 12:28
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before posting something, try to research... the name "turk" was wrtiten on a gokturk writing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_script) like ages before christ.... |
Posted By: ancalimon
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2010 at 01:57
| It is recorded on many inscriptions. But Kushan Empire is regarded as a Turkic Empire as well because of three great Turk kings. The term Turk is more related to some kind of "humanity". |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2010 at 18:22
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I would suggest that the Franks coined the term! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: MediaWarLord
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2010 at 18:37
| Yezidi Kurds who fled to the Russian Empire called the Turks (and the Ottoman Empire) 'Rome Resh' = 'Black Romans'. Referred to the Roman Empire occupiers of Kurdistan before them. Maybe because they were much more brutal than the Romans. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2010 at 19:57
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"Black Romans" or possibly the "Dark Rum?", could have existed! Maybe it all had to do with the "cloaks" that they were identified with? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2010 at 17:14
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Considering the origin of the word "Turk" has anyone ever considered the "Turk" numbering system? It can be seen here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_language Interestingly, since the "Turks" supposedly ruled Egypt for a few hundred years, the word for "Ten / 10" is the amazingly short word in "Turkish" written or expressed in English as "On!" "ON!", just happens to be one of the most reverred places in Egypt! But, again somewhat strangely, it seems it was the 15th Nome! Please see; http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/260062/Heliopolis# Heliopolis, (Greek), Egyptian Iunu or Onu (“Pillar City”), biblical On, one of the most ancient Egyptian cities and the seat of worship of the sun god, Re. It was the capital of the 15th nome of Lower Egypt, but Heliopolis was important as a religious rather than a political centre. During the New Kingdom (c. 1539–1075 bce) its great temple of Re was second in size only to that of Amon at Thebes, and its priesthood wielded great influence, particularly during the 5th dynasty (c. 2465–c. 2325 bce), when the worship of Re became the state cult. Little remains today of this great ancient Egyptian city. The sole surviving monument is the obelisk of Sesostris I, the oldest obelisk in existence. Of the pair of obelisks erected by Thutmose III in Heliopolis, now known as Cleopatra’s Needles, one stands on the Thames embankment in London and the other in Central Park, in New York City." Did the numbering system of the "nomes" ever change? One might well want to consider this map of the nomes of lower Egypt that can be found at Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lower_Egypt_Nomes_01.png You will quickly notice that the 10th Nome was located across the Nile from Heliopolis! If you persue this line then you might also notice that the numbering of the "Nomes" seems to began again South of Cairo! http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Upper_Egypt_Nomes.png If one actually reads this site; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nome_(Egypt) Then you might also notice that it appears the "Nomes" were numbered in two differing directions, that is from South to North and North to South beginning at Cairo/Heliopolis! Thus "1", or maybe "10", thus Heliopolis/ON/Cairo could well be either! You might well want to read this site also? http://www.coinsofromanegypt.org/html/library/petrie/petrie_nomes.htm Actually, the more you look, the more confused you will become! Or at least I did! If any of you are "expert" Egyptologists, then perhaps you can explain it all to us? Or at least point us to a site that does so? If you look up "Heliopolis", you might well be met with these choices? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliopolis Boy oh boy, we are certainly now met with numerous sources!!! "Heliopolis, meaning "sun city" in Ancient Greek, can refer to Heliopolis (ancient), the ancient city in Egypt Heliopolis (Cairo suburb), a suburb in modern Cairo, Egypt Heliopolis style, the architectural style of the modern Heliopolis Cairo suburb Heliopolis of Phoenicia, modern Baalbek, Lebanon Ilioupoli or Ilioupolis, meaning "Heliopolis" in Modern Greek, a southeastern suburb of Athens, Greece Heliópolis, the largest favela of São Paulo City, Brazil Héliopolis, Algeria, a town and commune in Guelma Province, Algeria Héliopolis, a town in France situated on the Île du Levant Heliopolis (Cosmic Era), a fictitious territory/colony in the science fiction anime series Gundam Seed Heliopolis (Marvel Comics), a fictitious location in Marvel Comics Heliopolis (Stargate), a fictitious planet in the sci-fi television series Stargate SG-1 (see The Torment of Tantalus) Heliopolis (novel), a dystopian novel by Ernst Jünger Heliopolis (2009 novel), a fiction novel by James Scudamore set in contemporary São Paulo, Brazil Heliopolis (album), a psychedelic trance album released by Swedish artist Filteria "Heliopolis", a song off the Morning Dance album by Spyro Gyra "Heliopolis", a song off the Reign of Light album by Samael "Heliopolis", a song off the Maya album by Banco de Gaia "Heliopolis by Night", a song off the Young Forever album by Scottish indy band Aberfeldy" So, do we take the word of some or most all of the historians of the past a pick out a place now within Cairo, Egypt, or can we consider other places? Perhaps another place, that now exists within Cairo, is a place called Babylon! Have any of you any information concerning this "Babylon?" Any answers? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: ancalimon
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2010 at 16:18
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I'm a bit confused about what you are telling us. ON is number 10 in Turkish. In old Turkic, ON means person, personality, individual of universe, and also sometimes "high" For example: In Turkish ARI means clean, noble, without sins. In old Turkic, ARYAN (aryg-on) means clean, noble person. When used in the right context, ON means ruler (for example ten feathers, ten rays of the sun) ProtoTurks called themselves ON and OQ. |
Posted By: Altar
Date Posted: 27-Dec-2010 at 18:04
I do not agree. we fought in the past with Aryan people (sassani, persian etc etc, alper tunga saga, etc etc). It is not possible for them to call that people noble or clean. |
Posted By: ancalimon
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2011 at 15:47
There is no "ARYAN PEOPLE" such a thing do not exists. It's simply a fantasy. The word is a Turkic word which can also be found in Indian languages. For example there was a thing called "Aryg-Alkın" which letraly means "to be cleansed". We still use it in modern Turkish. "Arın" |
Posted By: Altar
Date Posted: 08-Jan-2011 at 14:03
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they do exist. they are everywhere. black haired, brown eyed, white skinned people if so to "simplfy". armenians, iranians, some eorupians, tajiks, azeris (some parts), kurds are all the members of that family. some examples: the iranian people look like kurds, kurds look like armenians, so on.... |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2011 at 01:43
| ON...all they come from mother's hole...In so called slavic "ON" means "he himself"... |
Posted By: kman123
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 03:44
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I have no idea where the heck some of the really random answers in this thread are coming from. Turk or Turkic ethnic identity is hard to describe, so that's why I think of it as a cultural identity first and foremost (I think the topic creator was implying the same idea). If you feel that you're a Turk, then you are one. If you go back to the Gokturk era and even before then, Chinese written historical records describe them in so many various ways physically (different shades of eye/skin colors, hair textures, traits, etc.).
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Posted By: PakistaniShield
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2011 at 15:53
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I would give 2 definitions of turkic peoples. One is the racial definition and fits the turkic speaking populations of Central Asia whom are mostly related and have a common origin. The other is the linguistic definition in which I would include Anatolians and Azerbaijanis whom are not ethnically Turkic. Of course there is some Turko-Mongol DNA found in both but only a small percentage. Hazaras can be classified as Turks also but not included in the linguistic definition since they speak an Iranic language. ------------- http://pakhub.info"> 
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Posted By: TooRock
Date Posted: 18-Nov-2011 at 07:20
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Salam to everybody. The term Turk is an ethnic term. It is an ethnonym of people, who living Azerbaijan, Iran and Turkiye. In other words, for example, there is a linguistic group called "Roman" which includes Roman, italian, Spanish, French and etc. And group of people who have ethnonym Romans who lives mainly in Romania. Nowadays the term Turks have 3 meanings. Historical, Linguistic and Ethnic 1. Historical - Turks of Gekturk Empire from history. 2. Linguistic group, including languages of Turks of Azerbaijan, Turks of Turkiye, Iran, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmens, Kyrgyzs, Tatars, Saha,s (Yakuts) and etc. 3. Ethnic. This is ethnonym for majority of Turkiye, Azerbaijan and minimum 1/3 of Iran. ------------- Summum crede nefas animam praeferre pudori et propter vitam vivendi perdere causas |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 18-Nov-2011 at 07:51
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1-General:The short from of "Turks of Turkey" 2-it also uses for all Turkic people group (genetic or linguistic) 3-Formal: The name of all citizens of Turkey. 4-It means muslim in past and today some part of balkans ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 18-Nov-2011 at 11:22
Salaam TooRock. Welcome to Allempires 
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |