Normans/Franks in the northwest of Iran
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28710
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 05:49
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Topic: Normans/Franks in the northwest of Iran
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: Normans/Franks in the northwest of Iran
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 15:49
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In 10th and first half of 11th century before the formation of the Great Seljuq Empire, different peoples entered the Iranian plateau, some of them were European peoples, as I mentioned in http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28053 - this thread , in the northeast they were mostly Vikings and the Rus, but in the northwest (Azarbaijan) it seems they were Normans and Franks, some place names in this region, like Faranjeh, shows that they settled there for almost a long time, in this period for the first time after the fall of the Sassanid empire, an Iranian short-lived kingdom named Mosaferid was established in this region, of course they were just in war with Byzantines, Armenians, Georgians, Franks and finally Seljuq Turks. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 16:03
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Mosa-ferid sounds suspiciously like "Mosa" (Moses) or "Musa", (Moses), as "being drawn out of the water?" "Ferid" seems to also offer some solutions? Perhaps "fetid?"
Regards, Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 16:13
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"Mosafer" is an Arabic word which means "traveller", of course I don't why they called themselves "traveller", maybe they were also not originally from this region. -------------
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 16:48
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Cyrus, since most travell during early times was made via water-ways, whereever they were available, then any one, like the Vikings/Varangians/Venets/Venicians/Phoenicians, etc., or what ever you wish to call them could well be considered as "travellers?" As are the Gypsies even until today! Caravells/Caravans, ships of the desert or land? ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2010 at 19:08
Interesting I never realized they made it that Far East but they were quite the adventurous ones, the wander lust. The Normans were originally Vikings but the Franks were a Germanic tribe, both related groups though. Cyrus can you find out more about this? ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2010 at 03:59
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I haven't really found anything about the presence of Normans or Franks in the northwest of Iran in the English sources, of course Persjan sources also talk about Azarbaijan which could be larger than modern Azarbaijan province of Iran, the fact is that Iranians called all western European peoples as Farangi (Arabic Faranjeh), so they could be neither Normans, nor Franks.
But I think it is more possible that they were Normans, for example you can read about Hervé Frankopoulos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_%28Norman - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_(Norman )
Hervé ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language - Greek : Ἑρβέβιος, Ervevios, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_language - Italian : Erveo), called Frankopoulos or Phrangopoulos ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language - Greek : Φραγγόπουλος, "Son of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks - Frank "), was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans - Norman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary - mercenary general in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_army - Byzantine service during the 1050s.
In 1056, he demanded the high court title of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magistros - magistros from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Emperor - Emperor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_VI - Michael VI . Refused, he withdrew to his estate in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armeniac_theme - Armeniac theme . From there, he gathered a following of 300 Normans, and in spring 1057 he marched into eastern http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Minor - Asia Minor , around http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Van - lake Van . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herv%C3%A9_%28Norman%29#cite_note-ODB-0 - [1] There he possibly aimed to set up a state for himself, and entered into wars with the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenians - Armenians and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuk_Turks - Seljuk Turks . After initial success, he was eventually captured by a ruse by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emir - emir of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahlat - Ahlat , Abu Nasr.
However the date is a little different but the region around lake Van could be part of Azarbaijan in that time.
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Posted By: kamran_koshur
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2011 at 05:10
cyrus it reminds me that i have a friend fateme from behshahr in the mazandaran province , she told me once that her remote ancestors were from germany.
------------- Káşyren hinz kàşîr kashmir for kashmiris |