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HISTORICAL SKIN COLOR PREFERENCE IN INDIA

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: History of the South Asian subcontinent
Forum Discription: The Indian sub-continent and South Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27969
Printed Date: 12-May-2024 at 14:45
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: HISTORICAL SKIN COLOR PREFERENCE IN INDIA
Posted By: Jamukha
Subject: HISTORICAL SKIN COLOR PREFERENCE IN INDIA
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2009 at 03:58
I have been contemplating this question for a while and I am hoping that some of you
can shed some light on this matter. I would like to know, if historically white women
were preferred to darker women and considered the standard for true beauty.

Also, by historically, I mean, before the mughal empire.

IT is well known during the mughal empire, a white complexion was desirable, however,
prior to the mughals was that the case?





Replies:
Posted By: Jamukha
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2009 at 04:25
if someone could clarify this matter, with evidences - i would be greatly appreciative

thanks in advance


Posted By: Vajra
Date Posted: 23-Jul-2010 at 03:25
We only know this through literary point of view on what they preferred in women and I dont think it's much different here.

Theres a popular Vedic Goddess of Beauty called "Tripura Sunderi" name which translates to "Beauty Of Three Worlds" 

"The goddess Tripura Sundari in her aspect as Shodasi is represented as a sixteen-year-old girl, and is believed to embody sixteen types of desire. The Shodasi Tantra, a treatise on the Tantra, describes Tripura Sundari as "Beauty Of Tree Worlds". She is described as being of dusky color, and is depicted in an intimate position with an aspect of Shiva. The couple are shown on a bed, a throne, or a pedestal resting on the significant male gods of Hinduism like Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, and Indra."

Other than that Kama Sutra Texts has reference's or guide for men when it comes to picking a wife, courtesan etc

Kama Sutra - The following women are not to be enjoyed.

A lunatic 

A woman turned out of caste 

A woman who reveals secrets 

A woman who publicly expresses desire for sexual intercourse 

A women who is extremely white 

A women who is extremely black

A bad-smelling woman 

A woman who is a near relation 

A woman who is a female friend 

Other than that there are popular celestial maidens & nymphs like Apsaras, Urvashi, Tillotma, who are feminine beauty personification in myths.

" Wearing profuse jewllery, a magnificent crown with a face resembling the moon, broad-hipped, slender-waited, and graceful as panthers. They were accomplished dancers and divine courtesans, forever virginal, despite their amorous adventures."

" Urvashi came out of foaming waters of the primeval ocean when it was churned by the Gods and Demons in search of the nectar of immortality. When she emerged from the foaming sea holding nectar in the right hand and poison in the left the surging ocean ' like a serpent charmed with spells and lowered its million swollen hoods and fell' at her feet. Her complexion was 'Jasmine White'  and she was naked. The eternal beauty emerged to subdue the pride and wrath of the mighty, and not to satisfy the sexual appetite of man but to be adored by the 'heaven king'." 





-------------


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2010 at 03:37
Mahabharatha is the most popular epic of India.
Mahabharatha speaks about droupadi the wife of Pandavas who was well known for her beauty as darkskinned  she had another name too ie "Krishnaa".

Again SreeKrishna was also known to be darkskinned


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2010 at 18:20
One must well consider that to men, in general, it seems that (woman) which is least seen, is considered as the most exotic in most situations!

Thus one might consider that in a world of "white", "dark" might well be considered as "exotic?", and of course the opposite!

Well, we are mostly men conferring here and do the men agree?


Of course there are a few women also on this site, so their exotic desires might also be welcome?

-------------
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 20-Nov-2010 at 14:05

one thing i have noticed that hindus are usually darker then muslims or sikhs, is it this because hindus are Indian?? and many muslims and sikhs have recent outside genes?



Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2010 at 06:18
Originally posted by balochii

one thing i have noticed that hindus are usually darker then muslims or sikhs, is it this because hindus are Indian?? and many muslims and sikhs have recent outside genes?


Thats because India is closer to Equator than Pakistan.But fairskinned hindus of India outnumbers any other community in India and even in Pakistan.India has 1000million hindus even 40% of it will be twice pakistans population.Wink


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2010 at 09:22
^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 00:11
Originally posted by balochii

^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.

Dear friend you are thourughly wrong in this.Majority of muslims in India are converts and not turkish or Mongol and  .Its true that a few came with invaders and settled in India.Your Qaid e Azam Mr.Muhammed Ali Jinnah & Ex-prime minister Zulfiqer Ali Bhutto both hails from Muslim Rajput families.I think he is fair enough for you.Muslim rajpput community is a Mughal creation and there are altogether 27-30 lakh muslim rajputs all over the world ie  more thn 27% of the total Rajput population is muslim today They never came from outside along with mughals or other rulers they were sons of the land who were converted.During most of the Conquests the option left for the defeated was death or Islam those who chose not to die came to the fold of Islam.

Kalapahad the notorius muslim king of north east India who destroyed the Konark temple himself was a convert from hindu community.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar has in his writings mentioned Islamic invasion and subsequent conversions as the main reason for the decline of Buddhism in India

And In South India during Haider Ali & Tipu Sultan's invasions in both Kerala & South Canara.they used to forcefully convert large numbers of Nambudiri Brahmins,Nairs,Shettys , Kodavas(Coorgis) and other caste people to islam.They had a torture camp for Nairs and Kodavas at seringapatnam fort which is still open to visitors.Apart from all these large scale  forceful conversions took place all over India during the Khilafat movement also,even british historians are attesting this.

And there are muslim families who are of Yemenese & Arab descent in Kerala and these families are called with a title "Thangals" & they dont even constitute 1% of the total muslim population of Kerala ie the balance population are pure converts from local population and their skin colour has nothing to do with yemen or central Asia and there are lots and lots of fair people among thenm also.

 

 

There was no muslim central Asians or Afgans in Afganistan/Pakistan till the decline of Kabul Shahis who were Hindus

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

 

After their decline only islam spreaded in that area but skin colour of none of these clans were known to turn fair or white after their conversion to islam.

 

And if you want to have a better understanding about the spread of Islam in south east Asia these links  will be useful

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html -  

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Hindus -

 

You are seeing India from outside and  most of your perceptions about India has proved wrong so your race theory of black hindus and white muslims of India is fully wrong.And if you go through Indian History you will have a better understanding about the converts, ie that they were either forcefully converted uppercastes or the down trodden of the societies who were denied many rights say dalits of that period.If you want to know more about India you visit india and study about its races.Many north indians think that south india is full of dusky of dark skinned people and when they visit south india only they are surprised and convinced that south india also has fairskinned people.

And to my understanding skincolour has nothing to do with a human's ability.A man is evaluated upon his intelligence and other abilities not based on skincolour.

So put a hold to your fair muslim theory in India.We here respects all races and ther exists no discrimination in India based on skincolour.

 



Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 00:16
Do you see guys and gals, skin coulour means little outside of most of your small minds!

Sorry, but that is the way I see it!

-------------
http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 01:40
Thanks opuslola thats what I also meant.


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2010 at 19:22
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.

Dear friend you are thourughly wrong in this.Majority of muslims in India are converts and not turkish or Mongol and  .Its true that a few came with invaders and settled in India.Your Qaid e Azam Mr.Muhammed Ali Jinnah & Ex-prime minister Zulfiqer Ali Bhutto both hails from Muslim Rajput families.I think he is fair enough for you.Muslim rajpput community is a Mughal creation and there are altogether 27-30 lakh muslim rajputs all over the world ie  more thn 27% of the total Rajput population is muslim today They never came from outside along with mughals or other rulers they were sons of the land who were converted.During most of the Conquests the option left for the defeated was death or Islam those who chose not to die came to the fold of Islam.

Kalapahad the notorius muslim king of north east India who destroyed the Konark temple himself was a convert from hindu community.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar has in his writings mentioned Islamic invasion and subsequent conversions as the main reason for the decline of Buddhism in India

And In South India during Haider Ali & Tipu Sultan's invasions in both Kerala & South Canara.they used to forcefully convert large numbers of Nambudiri Brahmins,Nairs,Shettys , Kodavas(Coorgis) and other caste people to islam.They had a torture camp for Nairs and Kodavas at seringapatnam fort which is still open to visitors.Apart from all these large scale  forceful conversions took place all over India during the Khilafat movement also,even british historians are attesting this.

And there are muslim families who are of Yemenese & Arab descent in Kerala and these families are called with a title "Thangals" & they dont even constitute 1% of the total muslim population of Kerala ie the balance population are pure converts from local population and their skin colour has nothing to do with yemen or central Asia and there are lots and lots of fair people among thenm also.

 

 

There was no muslim central Asians or Afgans in Afganistan/Pakistan till the decline of Kabul Shahis who were Hindus

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

 

After their decline only islam spreaded in that area but skin colour of none of these clans were known to turn fair or white after their conversion to islam.

 

And if you want to have a better understanding about the spread of Islam in south east Asia these links  will be useful

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html -  

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Hindus -

 

You are seeing India from outside and  most of your perceptions about India has proved wrong so your race theory of black hindus and white muslims of India is fully wrong.And if you go through Indian History you will have a better understanding about the converts, ie that they were either forcefully converted uppercastes or the down trodden of the societies who were denied many rights say dalits of that period.If you want to know more about India you visit india and study about its races.Many north indians think that south india is full of dusky of dark skinned people and when they visit south india only they are surprised and convinced that south india also has fairskinned people.

And to my understanding skincolour has nothing to do with a human's ability.A man is evaluated upon his intelligence and other abilities not based on skincolour.

So put a hold to your fair muslim theory in India.We here respects all races and ther exists no discrimination in India based on skincolour.

 

 
well i dont know about india, but pakistanis are fairer then indians, a lot royal muslims from the north india actually migrated to pakistan in 1947 and many of them were afghans, they were fairskinned. Yes i agree that rajputs both muslims and hindus are fairer but Rajputs only make really part of population west india


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 04:52
Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.

Dear friend you are thourughly wrong in this.Majority of muslims in India are converts and not turkish or Mongol and  .Its true that a few came with invaders and settled in India.Your Qaid e Azam Mr.Muhammed Ali Jinnah & Ex-prime minister Zulfiqer Ali Bhutto both hails from Muslim Rajput families.I think he is fair enough for you.Muslim rajpput community is a Mughal creation and there are altogether 27-30 lakh muslim rajputs all over the world ie  more thn 27% of the total Rajput population is muslim today They never came from outside along with mughals or other rulers they were sons of the land who were converted.During most of the Conquests the option left for the defeated was death or Islam those who chose not to die came to the fold of Islam.

Kalapahad the notorius muslim king of north east India who destroyed the Konark temple himself was a convert from hindu community.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar has in his writings mentioned Islamic invasion and subsequent conversions as the main reason for the decline of Buddhism in India

And In South India during Haider Ali & Tipu Sultan's invasions in both Kerala & South Canara.they used to forcefully convert large numbers of Nambudiri Brahmins,Nairs,Shettys , Kodavas(Coorgis) and other caste people to islam.They had a torture camp for Nairs and Kodavas at seringapatnam fort which is still open to visitors.Apart from all these large scale  forceful conversions took place all over India during the Khilafat movement also,even british historians are attesting this.

And there are muslim families who are of Yemenese & Arab descent in Kerala and these families are called with a title "Thangals" & they dont even constitute 1% of the total muslim population of Kerala ie the balance population are pure converts from local population and their skin colour has nothing to do with yemen or central Asia and there are lots and lots of fair people among thenm also.

 

 

There was no muslim central Asians or Afgans in Afganistan/Pakistan till the decline of Kabul Shahis who were Hindus

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

 

After their decline only islam spreaded in that area but skin colour of none of these clans were known to turn fair or white after their conversion to islam.

 

And if you want to have a better understanding about the spread of Islam in south east Asia these links  will be useful

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html -  

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Hindus -

 

You are seeing India from outside and  most of your perceptions about India has proved wrong so your race theory of black hindus and white muslims of India is fully wrong.And if you go through Indian History you will have a better understanding about the converts, ie that they were either forcefully converted uppercastes or the down trodden of the societies who were denied many rights say dalits of that period.If you want to know more about India you visit india and study about its races.Many north indians think that south india is full of dusky of dark skinned people and when they visit south india only they are surprised and convinced that south india also has fairskinned people.

And to my understanding skincolour has nothing to do with a human's ability.A man is evaluated upon his intelligence and other abilities not based on skincolour.

So put a hold to your fair muslim theory in India.We here respects all races and ther exists no discrimination in India based on skincolour.

 

 
well i dont know about india, but pakistanis are fairer then indians, a lot royal muslims from the north india actually migrated to pakistan in 1947 and many of them were afghans, they were fairskinned. Yes i agree that rajputs both muslims and hindus are fairer but Rajputs only make really part of population west india

Say Royal Converts.
well your posts uncovers your prejudice and complex
Rajputs are spreaded all over north India and west from Bihar to Gujarat /Rajastan in west and Karnataka in south.


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 05:23
Dear Balochi

Kindly free your mind from your Dravidian and Hindu hatred and try to understand more about india before spitting out fictitious theories about the races and skin colours of India.Most of what you say are your beliefs or what you were taught and are thoroughly wrong.Your concept about dravidians being darkskinned  had already been proved wrong.Dravidian is a language family and there are many races who speaks dravidian languages.Apart from this there are lots of people belonging to different races residing over in South India too there are fair skinned,darkskinned and wheatish people in south India.
But I dont think facts/proofs are going to make any difference to you you are blinded with prejudice and hindu hatred.


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 14:07
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.

Dear friend you are thourughly wrong in this.Majority of muslims in India are converts and not turkish or Mongol and  .Its true that a few came with invaders and settled in India.Your Qaid e Azam Mr.Muhammed Ali Jinnah & Ex-prime minister Zulfiqer Ali Bhutto both hails from Muslim Rajput families.I think he is fair enough for you.Muslim rajpput community is a Mughal creation and there are altogether 27-30 lakh muslim rajputs all over the world ie  more thn 27% of the total Rajput population is muslim today They never came from outside along with mughals or other rulers they were sons of the land who were converted.During most of the Conquests the option left for the defeated was death or Islam those who chose not to die came to the fold of Islam.

Kalapahad the notorius muslim king of north east India who destroyed the Konark temple himself was a convert from hindu community.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar has in his writings mentioned Islamic invasion and subsequent conversions as the main reason for the decline of Buddhism in India

And In South India during Haider Ali & Tipu Sultan's invasions in both Kerala & South Canara.they used to forcefully convert large numbers of Nambudiri Brahmins,Nairs,Shettys , Kodavas(Coorgis) and other caste people to islam.They had a torture camp for Nairs and Kodavas at seringapatnam fort which is still open to visitors.Apart from all these large scale  forceful conversions took place all over India during the Khilafat movement also,even british historians are attesting this.

And there are muslim families who are of Yemenese & Arab descent in Kerala and these families are called with a title "Thangals" & they dont even constitute 1% of the total muslim population of Kerala ie the balance population are pure converts from local population and their skin colour has nothing to do with yemen or central Asia and there are lots and lots of fair people among thenm also.

 

 

There was no muslim central Asians or Afgans in Afganistan/Pakistan till the decline of Kabul Shahis who were Hindus

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

 

After their decline only islam spreaded in that area but skin colour of none of these clans were known to turn fair or white after their conversion to islam.

 

And if you want to have a better understanding about the spread of Islam in south east Asia these links  will be useful

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html -  

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Hindus -

 

You are seeing India from outside and  most of your perceptions about India has proved wrong so your race theory of black hindus and white muslims of India is fully wrong.And if you go through Indian History you will have a better understanding about the converts, ie that they were either forcefully converted uppercastes or the down trodden of the societies who were denied many rights say dalits of that period.If you want to know more about India you visit india and study about its races.Many north indians think that south india is full of dusky of dark skinned people and when they visit south india only they are surprised and convinced that south india also has fairskinned people.

And to my understanding skincolour has nothing to do with a human's ability.A man is evaluated upon his intelligence and other abilities not based on skincolour.

So put a hold to your fair muslim theory in India.We here respects all races and ther exists no discrimination in India based on skincolour.

 

 
well i dont know about india, but pakistanis are fairer then indians, a lot royal muslims from the north india actually migrated to pakistan in 1947 and many of them were afghans, they were fairskinned. Yes i agree that rajputs both muslims and hindus are fairer but Rajputs only make really part of population west india

Say Royal Converts.
well your posts uncovers your prejudice and complex
Rajputs are spreaded all over north India and west from Bihar to Gujarat /Rajastan in west and Karnataka in south.
most rajputs east of punjab/rajhistan are fake and have mixed with local dravdians, they are usally darkskinned, have you seen how the so called brahmins of south india are so dark skinned and look exactly the same as south indians?


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 14:09
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Dear Balochi

Kindly free your mind from your Dravidian and Hindu hatred and try to understand more about india before spitting out fictitious theories about the races and skin colours of India.Most of what you say are your beliefs or what you were taught and are thoroughly wrong.Your concept about dravidians being darkskinned  had already been proved wrong.Dravidian is a language family and there are many races who speaks dravidian languages.Apart from this there are lots of people belonging to different races residing over in South India too there are fair skinned,darkskinned and wheatish people in south India.
But I dont think facts/proofs are going to make any difference to you you are blinded with prejudice and hindu hatred.
again most dravdians are darkskinned, no one can deny this, i dont hate dravdians, but it seems they hate themselves and their skin colour, in general all darkskin indians hate their skin colour, which are 90% of the population


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 22:48
We Indians doesnt hate any skin colour and we dont discriminate o the basis of skin colour or race.
But History says a different story about pakistan, that is Pakistan's colour/race prejudice had cost it half of its country in 1971

 

http://www.pakspectator.com/racism-rules-in-pakistan/ - http://www.pakspectator.com/racism-rules-in-pakistan/

 

 

http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/racism-in-pakistan/ - http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/racism-in-pakistan/

 


If India was half as racist as pakistan it would have been split into 800 countries which it used to be once upon a time.



Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 22:53
Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

^ not really, the only fair skinned hindus in india i have noticed are some upper caste, but not even all upper caste are fairskinned, i have noticed many really dark upper caste as well. Many muslims and sikhs actually are recent arrivals in the subcontinent, mostly from central asia or afghanistan, i think that is the reason the might be fairskinned, the dalit hindus who have converted to islam or christianity are mostly dark skinned.

Dear friend you are thourughly wrong in this.Majority of muslims in India are converts and not turkish or Mongol and  .Its true that a few came with invaders and settled in India.Your Qaid e Azam Mr.Muhammed Ali Jinnah & Ex-prime minister Zulfiqer Ali Bhutto both hails from Muslim Rajput families.I think he is fair enough for you.Muslim rajpput community is a Mughal creation and there are altogether 27-30 lakh muslim rajputs all over the world ie  more thn 27% of the total Rajput population is muslim today They never came from outside along with mughals or other rulers they were sons of the land who were converted.During most of the Conquests the option left for the defeated was death or Islam those who chose not to die came to the fold of Islam.

Kalapahad the notorius muslim king of north east India who destroyed the Konark temple himself was a convert from hindu community.

Dr.B.R.Ambedkar has in his writings mentioned Islamic invasion and subsequent conversions as the main reason for the decline of Buddhism in India

And In South India during Haider Ali & Tipu Sultan's invasions in both Kerala & South Canara.they used to forcefully convert large numbers of Nambudiri Brahmins,Nairs,Shettys , Kodavas(Coorgis) and other caste people to islam.They had a torture camp for Nairs and Kodavas at seringapatnam fort which is still open to visitors.Apart from all these large scale  forceful conversions took place all over India during the Khilafat movement also,even british historians are attesting this.

And there are muslim families who are of Yemenese & Arab descent in Kerala and these families are called with a title "Thangals" & they dont even constitute 1% of the total muslim population of Kerala ie the balance population are pure converts from local population and their skin colour has nothing to do with yemen or central Asia and there are lots and lots of fair people among thenm also.

 

 

There was no muslim central Asians or Afgans in Afganistan/Pakistan till the decline of Kabul Shahis who were Hindus

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabul_Shahi

 

After their decline only islam spreaded in that area but skin colour of none of these clans were known to turn fair or white after their conversion to islam.

 

And if you want to have a better understanding about the spread of Islam in south east Asia these links  will be useful

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html -  

http://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/History_of_Jihad_Against_the_Hindus -

 

You are seeing India from outside and  most of your perceptions about India has proved wrong so your race theory of black hindus and white muslims of India is fully wrong.And if you go through Indian History you will have a better understanding about the converts, ie that they were either forcefully converted uppercastes or the down trodden of the societies who were denied many rights say dalits of that period.If you want to know more about India you visit india and study about its races.Many north indians think that south india is full of dusky of dark skinned people and when they visit south india only they are surprised and convinced that south india also has fairskinned people.

And to my understanding skincolour has nothing to do with a human's ability.A man is evaluated upon his intelligence and other abilities not based on skincolour.

So put a hold to your fair muslim theory in India.We here respects all races and ther exists no discrimination in India based on skincolour.

 

 
well i dont know about india, but pakistanis are fairer then indians, a lot royal muslims from the north india actually migrated to pakistan in 1947 and many of them were afghans, they were fairskinned. Yes i agree that rajputs both muslims and hindus are fairer but Rajputs only make really part of population west india

Say Royal Converts.
well your posts uncovers your prejudice and complex
Rajputs are spreaded all over north India and west from Bihar to Gujarat /Rajastan in west and Karnataka in south.
most rajputs east of punjab/rajhistan are fake and have mixed with local dravdians, they are usally darkskinned, have you seen how the so called brahmins of south india are so dark skinned and look exactly the same as south indians?

You are a racist to the core.And all these theories are coming from your colour prejudice.Pleasectry to learn more about India and Indian before putting forth such lunacy.


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 22:56

Excerpts from a write up by Tarek Fateh a pakistan born canadian columnist

http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/racism-in-pakistan/ - R http://iaoj.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/racism-in-pakistan/ - acism in Pakistan

16102010

http://wp.me/p7eUy-1W5"> By: Tarek Fatah

Zardari, after all is a Sindhi, from a people most upper class Punjabis think off as backward, lazy, illiterate serfs who are unpatriotic and thus not deserving to be at the helm of affairs. This Punjabi elite cannot get over the fact, the man they hated, from a people they despised, has ended up as the president of the country, and that too without their blessing.

Pakistan is a multi-national and multi-lingual country of diverse peoples that wraps itself in the banner of Islam. However, its elites practice neither Islam nor recognize diversity.

On the contrary, the dominant ruling elites, the Punjabi upper middle class, civil and military officers, as well as the landed aristocracy have ruled the nation for over 60 years with a sense of entitlement that bristles with racism and chauvinism.

One would have thought the Punjabi ruling classes would have learnt a lesson in 1971 after their colonialist policies in then East Pakistan destroyed the country. However, instead of facing the truth, it seems this sense of entitlement and colonial attitude has been reinforced and passed on to the next generation.

These men and women simply see themselves as the normative and all other Pakistanis, be they religious or racial minorities, as their subjects.

Only if one recognizes this internal racism of the Pakistan’s ruling Punjabi elites, including the media, can one can get to understand the near hysterical nature of the opposition to President Asif Ali Zardari that takes on a vicious personal nature.

At times it seems the hatred targeted at Zardari is sheer jealousy. More than one such gentleman has said Zardari did not deserve to have been the husband of Benazir Bhutto; a position they feel should have been reserved for them or one of their fellow Punjabis who fake colonial British accents, false Muslim bravado, but back their patriotism with genuine Canadian passports.

Zardari, after all is a Sindhi, a people most upper class Punjabis think off as backward, lazy, illiterate serfs who are unpatriotic and thus not deserving to be at the helm of affairs. This Punjabi elite cannot get over the fact, the man they hated from a people they despised, has ended up as the president of the country, and that too without their blessing”

This arrogant and racist attitude is not reserved just for the Sindhis, but also includes the Baloch, a people treated like the Blacks in America before the civil rights movement of the 1960s.

Blogger Wasiq Ali captured this feeling best. On August 7, 2009, he wrote about a recent report by Transparency International that inside Pakistan the ‘perception’ is that while corruption is down in Punjab, it has increased in places like Sind or Baluchistan.

Wasiq writes:

“Quite clearly the perception creators are Punjabi chauvinists who deem the “lowly” Sindhis and Baloch more corrupt than themselves. Ironically, there is more wealth –and vulgar display of wealth in Punjab—than in Sind and Baluchistan. We must all believe, as true believers in the ideology of Pakistan, that the Porsches and BMWs of the Chaudhries of Gujarat and the Sharifs of Raiwind are all legally obtained but the Pajeros of the Baloch and Pashtun Sardars are not. And, of course, the Sindhi Asif Zardari was “horrible’ for owning horses and feeding them apples (which, by the way, all horses are fed) but the Punjabi Sharifs are non-corrupt even when they own rare Siberian Tigers [Imported from Canada].”

In a country where ordinary Punjabi military generals retire as multi-millionaires in US dollars, it is fascinating that the tarred word ‘corruption’ is associated, not with them, but is reserved exclusively for politicians from the Sind and Baluchistan.

Thus, President Asif Ali Zardari has to live with the title “Mr. Ten Per Cent,” not because he has been convicted of the charge of corruption despite being interned for over ten years, but because the phrase has a sexy rhyme to it. It is repeated ad nauseam by the media who cannot comprehend anyone outside the Punjabi framework as being independently wealthy.

Now those same elites are using Transparency International’s report on ‘perceptions’ to denigrate a democratically elected government in Pakistan that is dedicated to eliminate the jihadi threat to the country.

According to Wasiq Ali, “The words of ‘transparency’ and ‘international’ are good attraction points to draw public attention in Pakistan because of vague political landscape. Nobody knows the modus operandi and the data collation procedures of TI. Publication of these reports thus mostly serves the purpose of the opposition to taint the governments especially in third world countries. During the 1990s TI reports were used against democratic governments and eventually to justify [General] Musharraf’s military takeover in October 1999.”

He very correctly points out that “Transparency International has a local chapter in every country where it literally out-sources the task of compiling reports. The task is to interview local businessmen who first safeguard their business concerns, revitalize their vital connections, and try to milk these reports as much in their favour as possible.

Like all developing countries, Pakistan too is faced with growth pangs, one them being corruption. It is the nature of the beast and even countries like Canada are not free of this aspect of the ‘free market’ principles of capitalism. Former Prime Ministers have been exposed as receiving hundred of thousands of dollars in brown envelopes. Bribes by their nature have two parties involved—the giver and the taker, both equally complicit in corruption.

The fact that the Punjabi elite dominates all major businesses in Pakistan allows for a certain ethnic chauvinism, which then affects the compilation of these Transparency International reports and opinion surveys. However, it is only downright racism that suggest when a Punjabi politician imports a Siberian Tiger, he is an animal lover, but if Sindhi politician feeds his horse an apple, he is a guilty of corruption.

As Wasiq Ali writes, “Interestingly the business elite which mostly hails from Punjab has brought the country to the brink of Balkanization by concentrating prosperity in one province while distributing misery around the country.

This elite practically controls all resources of the country, mostly resides in Northern and Central Punjab and has often been the cause of major upheavals in the checkered history of Pakistan.”

Pakistan broke up in 1971 due to the arrogance and racism of the country’s Punjabi elites towards dark-skinned Bengalis of East Pakistan. Today the next generation of Punjabi ruling class should recognize that if they do not recognize their faults, what is left of Pakistan will also splinter into many fragments leaving their prosperity landlocked and surrounded by hostile neighbours with wounded prides.

The racist nature of Pakistan’s politics. Where Punjabis govern with a sense of entitlement over Sindhis and Baloch.

(Note- Tarek Fatah is a highly respected Canadian commentator who has fearlessly confronted Islamic extremism in recent years.)



Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2010 at 23:00

 Another write up by Tarek Fatah about racism in Islam Pakistan & Bangladesh

National Post: Racism in Islam, Pakistan and Bangladesh

By  http://vladtepesblog.com/?author=1 -  | May 7, 2009

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1540065 - Published: Tuesday, April 28, 2009


The following is an edited excerpt of a speech delivered last week at the Durban Review Conference (Durban II) in Geneva, Switzerland.

As I speak to you, I am deeply disappointed that my colleague Milly Nsekalije, a survivor of the 1994 massacre of Rwandan Tutsis, could not share her story with all of you. The reason: In the eyes of some, she cannot have been a victim of the genocide since she is not 100% Tutsi.

What does it say about the state of racism in our world when the victims of a genocide practise exclusion on the basis of the so-called purity of blood lines and ethnicity?

Worse than her exclusion from to-day’s event is the fact that it has happened at a conference meant to combat racism. As this shows, we have turned the concept of racism upside down.

Racism operates not just as a black/ white divide, but also as a cancer that affects relations between people of colour — people who often share the same religion, but have different shades of brown or black skin.

This internalized racism, which devours the people of the developing world in Asia and Africa from within, is too often left out of the discussion of racism.

This afternoon, I would like to shed some light on two genocides — one happened in 1970-71 in what is now Bangladesh; and the other that continues as I speak in the Darfur region of Sudan. In both instances, the root of the problem lay with one group of Muslims feeling they were racially superior to their victims, who also happened to be Muslim. In both cases, the doctrine of racial superiority and the practice of institutional racism went unchallenged, even after the horrible consequences of such racism were evident and for all to see.

In 1970, my country of birth, Pakistan, was divided in two: an eastern part that is today known as Bangladesh and the western rump, which survived a subsequent war with India as the state we now know as Pakistan.

East Pakistan was inhabited by the darker-skinned Bengali people who happened to be the majority community of Pakistan, but found themselves ruled by a lighter-skinned minority from what was known as West Pakistan.

In the first 25 years of the country’s history, the racist depiction of the darker-skinned Bengalis as an inferior and incapable people became the unquestioned dogma among the ruling minority. The darker-skinned Bengalis’ culture was portrayed as un-Islamic and influenced by Hinduism. Their music, cuisine and attire were mocked, and their language was banned, leading to widespread protests and deaths in 1952.

In 1970, after suffering under the minority rule of West Pakistan for 25 years, the people of East Pakistan voted to elect a party based in their region, and gained a clear majority in the country’s national parliament.

However, the racist view that Bengali people were incapable of ruling the country, or that they were traitors to the fair-skinned minority of West Pakistan, led to a military intervention and widespread massacres over a 10-month period.

The killing of the Bengali people by the West Pakistan army stopped only when India intervened and defeated the Pakistan Armed Forces, but not before hundreds of Bengali intellectuals, professors, poets, authors, musicians and painters were rounded up and massacred.

All told, one million Muslims were murdered by fellow Muslims in an orgy of hate that defied the teachings of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad, whose religious authority was being invoked by the Pakistan army.

One would have hoped that this genocide would have served as a cautionary tale. But the sad fact is that racism in the Islamic world has remained ubiquitous in the years that followed. Yet there is near universal denial about it, not just among the governments of Muslim nations, but also among many NGOs and civil society groups.

In Sudan, the Arab janjaweed militia and the Arab government in Khartoum have caused the murder of 500,000 Darfuri Muslims whose only fault is that they are black and thus considered inferior to the ruling classes of that country.

The mistreatment of black Muslims by those who feel they are superior because of their lighter skin colour has gone on throughout history. Only in the Middle East can one get away with addressing a black man as Ya Abdi, which translates as “Oh you slave.”

Only the Arab League would choose to embrace Sudan’s President, a man charged by the International Criminal Court for his murderous campaign in Darfur.

It is time that the medieval belief in the inferiority of non-Arab Muslims to Arab Muslims is laid to rest. Arab countries and leaders of Arab NGOs must denounce this doctrine, which has led to discrimination against darker-skinned Muslims by Arab governments in countries as far apart as Dubai and Darfur.

If we cannot allow a woman to speak here because she is of mixed blood, then all I can say is that in the words of Robert Frost, we have miles to go before we sleep. – Tarek Fatah is the author of the recent book Chasing Mirage: The Tragic Illusion of an Islamic State.

http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=7842 - http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=7842

 

 



Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 01:32
^lol are you telling me that north indians are not racist against dravdians south indians??? just go see what they call you


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 01:33
look how mostly dravdian dalits are treated in you home land, they are slaves of the upper caste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 01:52
Originally posted by balochii

look how mostly dravdian dalits are treated in you home land, they are slaves of the upper caste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE
Are you trying to tell me how we treat each other here..?

http://genepath.med.harvard.edu/~reich/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf - http://genepath.med.harvard.edu/~reich/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf
This link will help you to know more bout the ancestry of population of India and also to know more about dravidians and caste populations  ie upper and lower castes among both Indo-aryans and dravidians.


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 02:15
Caste system was very predomonent in India once.But now the effect of caste system has reduced.Lots of intercaste marriages are happening all over india. .
And caste system is not based on skin colour.There are dark skinned uppercastes and fair skinned lower castes in several parts of India and caste system is not related to any sorts of slavery.
I couldnt see the youtube video that you posted but,Today every caste in India let it be upper or lower has representation in all fields in India and even lower castes ie dalits and harijans are unified and are well protected from exploitation by several social organizations.
To provide better representation for lower castes in educations and government jobs our governments have provided reservation for them.So if there is an incident of discrimination that has happened it will be an isolated case and will be punished severely if brought to the notice of concerned officials.


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 02:30
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

look how mostly dravdian dalits are treated in you home land, they are slaves of the upper caste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCE60Qnv5UE
Are you trying to tell me how we treat each other here..?

http://genepath.med.harvard.edu/~reich/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf - http://genepath.med.harvard.edu/~reich/2009_Nature_Reich_India.pdf
This link will help you to know more bout the ancestry of population of India and also to know more about dravidians and caste populations  ie upper and lower castes among both Indo-aryans and dravidians.

Present Indian population is a mixture of Ancestral North Indian & Ancestral South Indian Populations and there is no pure Ancestral north Indian or Ancestral south Indian population available anywhere in the subcontinent today.Ad skin colour of the populations are strictly based on the climatic conditions and circumstances where individual populations live in.And Your concept of dravidians being dalits is completely wrong,Dalits as well as upper castes are there in North as well as south
Eg:Aishwarya Rai belongs to Tulu bunt community who are dravidian .Anyways I dont want to correct you coz i believe its of no use.And ill treatment of dalits used to take place in 1960s and 1970s but not today.Now they are also a group with strong representation in any ministries of any states in India.Even the backward tribes of North east India has representation and even have chiefministers in their own respective states Eg: Shibu Soren,Arjun Munda
Dalits had even became the Presidents and Supreme Court Chief Justices of India.
So any isolated cases of Dalit bashing is not going to speak against the mainstream Indian Society


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 04:45
lol dude caste system is still there in full form, just because its not happening in downtown mumbai doesn't mean anything, go to any smaller town or village in india see how the lower castes are treated like slaves


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 06:57
Originally posted by balochii

lol dude caste system is still there in full form, just because its not happening in downtown mumbai doesn't mean anything, go to any smaller town or village in india see how the lower castes are treated like slaves

First of all I am a Nambiar (Kshatriya) and belong to Kerala & I am not located in Mumbai and I have worked in Mumbai,Gujarat(jamnagar),Orissa , Chennai  & North Karnataka and for official purposes I have had long stays in Delhi , Kolkata,Allahabad , Manesar(haryana) , Baroda , Coimbatore and many other non metros and towns but in none of these places I have seen people discriminating others on the basis of caste.Many of my postings were in interior areas for green field projects so I have an understanding of their local beliefs and customs too, so dont give this small town thing to me.
Illiterate tribals and locals of certain areas are exploited by politicians and businessmen but there is no caste attached to it.
The Most backward states of india are in the north east india ie Jharkhand,Orissa Bihar ,Chattisgarh & Madhyapradesh.There are large number of tribals and dalits in this area.Jharkhand is a tribal majority state and majority of its ministers are from  scheduled tribes same is the case of other metioned states ,if you take the nam,e of caste or tribe in these states and try to work out your slavery in this area, you will be killed instantly by the public. 
Caste system is playing roles only during marriages and other family ceremonies
and off lately that too had changed.
Intermarriages between castes that too from accross large landscapes is happening.Many of my cousins had married from Sastri families of UP and from patels and Jadeja families from Gujarat and some from Bengal & Coorg of Karnataka.If caste system is still prevailing in the intensity that you say then this would never happen.
Literacy rate of south India is high nearly 70% for Andhra,Karnataka & Tamilnadu and kerala is a 100% literate state.Living standards of kerala is almost at par with that of Europe.So people are much aware of the happenings and caste system has least effect in South India.
If you are trying to teach me about what we are and how we are living in India then it is of no use I have a better understanding of India than you do. 
 


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2010 at 11:48
^ you are simple lying, the first sentence of your's that you are Kshatriya, in itself is a statment that you think you are superior to lower castes, many hindus have weird ways of defending their barbaric caste systems, trust me, you can't fool me


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 02:36
Originally posted by balochii

^ you are simple lying, the first sentence of your's that you are Kshatriya, in itself is a statment that you think you are superior to lower castes, many hindus have weird ways of defending their barbaric caste systems, trust me, you can't fool me

I dont need to lie to some illogocal person preaching all sorts of rubbish against my society.And for you information kshatriya is a middle caste.And I have in my earlier post mentioned that my people intermarries with other castes including vaisyas,shudras and brahmins.If we were so staunchly supporting our caste system this would have never happened.If we are able to overcome our feeling for the want of caste system ,other people from other castes who are marrying our people are also overcoming it.
When things are going against your beliefs you are not ashamed to call names.I am very well aware of your attitude towards India and hindus.Your posts are only interested in tarnishing whatever is related to India and Hindus
Whether I prove it wrong or not,I know you wont believe a word of it because you are taught or set that way.But your posts are very misleading and confusing to other people in this forum and thats why I am posting the real scenario in this tread


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 02:53
^ i am not illogical, your system is flawed, that treats human beings of low caste like slaves and animals, its the worst form abuse in the world, more then half of india is suffering from this abuse, this is the real reason for the mass poverty of india, unfortunatly the western media doesn't pay attention to this fact


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 02:55
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by balochii

lol dude caste system is still there in full form, just because its not happening in downtown mumbai doesn't mean anything, go to any smaller town or village in india see how the lower castes are treated like slaves

I have worked in Mumbai,Gujarat(jamnagar),Orissa , Chennai  & North Karnataka and for official purposes I have had long stays in Delhi , Kolkata,Allahabad , Manesar(haryana) , Baroda , Coimbatore and many other non metros and towns but in none of these places I have seen people discriminating others on the basis of caste.Many of my postings were in interior areas for green field projects so I have an understanding of their local beliefs and customs too, so dont give this small town thing to me.
Illiterate tribals and locals of certain areas are exploited by politicians and businessmen but there is no caste attached to it.
The Most backward states of india are in the north east india ie Jharkhand,Orissa Bihar ,Chattisgarh & Madhyapradesh.There are large number of tribals and dalits in this area.Jharkhand is a tribal majority state and majority of its ministers are from  scheduled tribes same is the case of other metioned states ,if you take the nam,e of caste or tribe in these states and try to work out your slavery in this area, you will be killed instantly by the public. 
Caste system is playing roles only during marriages and other family ceremonies
and off lately that too had changed.
Most of the north eastern areas and Andhra pradesh of South India are declared as Naxal affected areas.
Naxal movement though Anti Social is a movement formed to defend the downtrodden of the society like ignored scheduled tribes and backwardcastes in respective.It was largely an armed communist movement.It started in 1960s-1970s when the zamindars of respective areas were loting and exploiting the backward people.And gained strength in 1970s and was successful in putting and end to such crimes.

Now this movement has deviated from its prime goals and is largely conducting illegal trading of arms and organised violence, may be due to lack of cause ,I meant to say lack odf cases of discriminatory actions and exploitations of the backward class of the society.

There is bollywood movie about a naxalite(Paritala Ravindra) who fought against the forward castes of Andhrapradesh.He later became an MLA then a minister and finally he too was assasinated by hired killers of opposite party.The movies name is "Rakht Charitra"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakht_Charitra - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakht_Charitra




Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 02:59
Originally posted by balochii

^ i am not illogical, your system is flawed, that treats human beings of low caste like slaves and animals, its the worst form abuse in the world, more then half of india is suffering from this abuse, this is the real reason for the mass poverty of india, unfortunatly the western media doesn't pay attention to this fact

You know nothing about Indian society and is going on blah..blah.. about it due to your hatred and nothing else.Your country itself originated from hatred for hindus.
And we dont have a military or religion controlled regime here to prevent any media to come here.We are a democratic country with equal right for all


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 03:12
And reagrding the mass poverty that you mentioned
Human development Index of India in 2009 is 0.612 wheras that of pakistan is 0.572 ie higher that pakistan with six times the population of pakistan.
So go and do some thing to reduce your own poverty rather than doing lipservice againt India


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 04:36
Pakistan is poor mainly because of corruption and current problems facing the country, your country is poor because of totally different reason (racism and injustice) Caste system is a racist, inhumane, barbaric system, yet even the so called educated hindus defend it, this is why i personally think you people are the worst of them all, poor uneducated people i can forgive, but you should be ashamed of yourself. India will always have poor people, until the caste system is totally destroyed, you can never match china in anything, your barbaric system is keeping you behind


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 04:38
[QUOTE=balochii]Pakistan is poor mainly because of corruption and current problems facing the country, your country is poor because of totally different reason (racism and injustice) Caste system is a racist, inhumane, barbaric system, yet even the so called educated hindus defend it, this is why i personally think you people are the worst of them all, poor uneducated people i can forgive, but you should be ashamed of yourself. India will always have poor people, until the caste system is totally destroyed, you can never match china in anything, your barbaric system is keeping you behind[/Q

Good theory


Posted By: balochii
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 04:42
^ you have nothing to defend regarding your ugly system


Posted By: ranjithvnambiar
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2010 at 05:28
Originally posted by balochii

^ you have nothing to defend regarding your ugly system

The problem here is not having nothing to defend , it is really what to defend and to whom



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