Kemal Ataturk
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27677
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 01:51
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Topic: Kemal Ataturk
Posted By: Azadi
Subject: Kemal Ataturk
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 12:48
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Why is he looked upon as a traitor among Muslims ? What exactly did he do during the "westernisation" of Turkey that upset the Muslim community ? A. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 13:00
I thought he banned the burqa and call to prayer for a period of time. I can only speculate that this would make some very devout Muslims unhappy and possibly portray him as being anti-Islamic. I understand he was very secular in his views and not very religious but you probably know more than me about him. He is more revered than our George Washington. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 13:13
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Ataturk also....
-Changed the Turkish Alphabet from Arabic script to western letters
-Banned the Fez and other traditional male clothing
-Changed Turkish law from being a law code heavily influenced by Islamic religious law to a western, French Napoleonic style law code
Since most religious are also culturally conservative, even non religious changes like the alphabet and fez bans were going to anger religious leaders.
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 14:38
yes the fez that is correct except for the tourist - 
I bought one for my friend's son ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 14:52
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Thanks Kak Eaglecap and Cryptic, Ataturks military deeds and failures I know much about, but this hatred against the "westernisation" of his I could not understand since Mahmud II started it all. A. -------------
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 16:08
He is very honored in your nation and I saw statues or portraits of him everywhere. I wonder if he is seen with the same light that many Americans see George Washington as our First President. He really is not as popular as Kemal Ataturk but I think at one time he was seen as more of a folk hero. by socialistworker.co.uk 
by metemuratmeti... flickr.com 
by fightthebias.com ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2009 at 23:39
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Ataturk was really one of the most influential persons not only in Turkish society but also in the societies of the neighbour countries, Reza Shah copied almost his all changes, except the alphabet change, in Iran, of course I don't support all things that they did, like changing traditional male clothing, but I can't deny that they developed the society. ------------- 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 03:59
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Some can say that he was against Islam but i could say that the some who thinks like that only know traditional Islam. Yes there are two kinds of Islam in the Wolrd today; Traditional Islam and Islam in Quran. If you look at traditional Islam and its followres you can find so many things which are nonsense for example in traditional Islam reading Quran in Arabic is better even if you do not understand it because of your mother tongue and also in traditional Islam there is belief that everyone can not understand Quran so we need some leaders (alim) who can understand it and tell us. Also the traditional clothing style which is out of date is not a rule of Quran. So Atatürk was against this kind of Islam. He wanted his people to learn their religion themselves without helps of alims or mollas so he made Quran to be translated in Turkish, also he tried to remove evrything which was a result of traditional Islam. And do not forget after Muhammed (S.A.V.) Islam was a tool to assimilate other nation's cultıures like their languages so he was to make great changes to break this assimilation. |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 07:36
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^
Good point, there are people who think that Saudi Arab culture and Islam cannot be seperated. Saudia full veils are being presented as the only "truly Islamic" clothing in Africa. Full veils have never been part of the local Islam there.
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 08:01
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The fact is that from the beginning days Islam was used as a tool for spreading the Arabic culture and those who stood against this process were considered as anti-Islam! As 29ekim1923 mentioned, for example reading Quran in Arabic has been always regarded as a religious act in the Islamic Societies whether Arab-speaking societies or non-Arabic. -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 12:04
Limited Mullas power in the mosque just as religious men not the politician |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 12:07
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This might surprise you, Kak Eaglecap, but he ain't honored among Kurds and we don’t have any statues and portraits of him either.
Slaw Kak 29ekim1923, I respect your opinion, but Ataturk, with Kemalist secular governments and the military, constrained and weakened Islam greatly. 97% of the Turkish population are Muslim, whereof only 20% practicing. Why? Set aside that Kemal replaced the Shariah law with the European legal codes. Set aside that Kemal replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Set aside that Kemal replaced the Arabic script with the Latin script. Set aside that Kemal closed all religious schools. Set aside that Kemal banned traditional clothing. Those actions were necessary in order to move forward… But taking control over tens of thousands mosques, and replacing the current imams with “government friendly” imams led to the fact that mosques were to used to preach according to the Ataturk’s dictates and were also used to spread the Kemalist ideology. I’m not totally sure but I think the Muslims suffering the most, besides Kurds and Armenians, were the Sufi Muslims who got their monasteries confiscated and rituals outlawed. I’ve done some research regarding Ataturks reforms since I started this thread, as you may have known, and some of the reforms Kemal put into practice during his “westernization” were deeply disturbing. Ordering Muslims to use the Turkish word Tanri instead of Allah, and replace the name of the 5 time prayers and the call for prayers with Turkish names? What?! I understand calling Kurds “mountain Turks” (unlike sea and jungle Turks), but that fact that he DID put these reforms into practice in a country were the majority of the inhabitants are Muslims? Not the mention that he changed many mosques into museums. Kemal was a military genius in every way, and he did as a matter of fact found the modern Turkish state – but not though peace, equality of freedom of speech like the European countries – but though suppression, massacres and massive human rights violations. As long as Turkish military and the state bureaucracy are infiltrated with Kemalist/secularists and act as the guardians of Ataturk’s reforms and work to preserve Kemalism and weaken Islam – Turkey will be a torn country. And for your information 29ekim1923, The Holy Quran is according to Islam the final revelation of God’s words given to humanity. Nobody prevented Turks from learning Arabic and reading the Quran, this has nothing to do with “traditional Islam”. The reason Muslims think reading the Quran in Arabic is “better” is because; that’s the original. The translated versions are imperfect; the translator could have changed or misinterpreted words, so it doesn’t give the prefect representation of the message of the Quran as no translation can accurately match the original Arabic. A. -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 27-Aug-2009 at 12:15
Kurds are right to dislike him, but his statue & portraits + flag is in every centimeters on the way from Iranian border to Van, obviously mainly in military & governmental org. & some hotel & shops |
Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2009 at 04:50
Who said only %20 practicing? Turkey is a secular country everybody could belive whatever they want, practicing islam is not banned.
Yeap that "mountain Turks" thing is absurd, but it invented in 80's, many years after death of Atatürk.
Well we have enought mosques in Turkey.
He did not violated human rights.
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. We also made languge reform, and changed too many non-Turkish word to Turkish.Posted By: Hypocrisy
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2009 at 11:24
Is it because he established a "Turkish state" ?
Why Turkey has to stick to Islamic values? He abolished the religion-based establishments due to the regressive impact of an highly islamic tradition on the society. I myself find that choice pertinent.
Set aside that Kemal replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Set aside that Kemal replaced the Arabic script with the Latin script. Set aside that Kemal closed all religious schools. Set aside that Kemal banned traditional clothing. Those actions were necessary in order to move forward… So why do you ardently stand up against the movements of a necessary enlightenment ?
He, by no means, ruled over the local mosques. He just straightened them up for the well-being of the fresh state.
Your above statement simply adds up to the prohibiton of freedom isn't factual at all.
I must admit that your sheer hatred against Atatürk stands out prominently. He tried to remove/reduce the notable influence of religious values over the population to avoid irreversible revolts against the brand new system of himself.
Are you aware of the condition of the Ottoman Empire at that time? Do you think it is easy to reunite an entirely fragmented nation? It takes more than you think it does to forge many seperate partitions of a dissolved nation into a solid one once again. You have to go through the darkness (name it whatever you want) to reach up for the light. Atatürk called the shots to catch up on his task.
That's why we have a popular investigation called "Ergenekon". The state is currently purged off the unwanted bureaucrats who protect those reforms.. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2009 at 12:51
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Dont think soo. Turkey is a secular country, everybody could belive whatever they want.
I love Turkiye and its people but ... hmmm - this has nothing to do with Kemal Atatuk but try passing out Bibles in Turkiye today. I know of groups who have done that and once they are caught they get deported. I met some missionaries on a ferry in the Bosporus and when I said the missionary word they hushed me and said that they could get deported. I also met some Christian Turks who own a coffee shop and book store and out of curiosity I asked them did they have church services there. Their first reaction was to also shush me because someone might be listening and then they told me we do not have the same religious freedoms you have in the USA. I know they sold Christian material and even Bibles but it is very restricted in the area of expression. I would hope that Turkiye would allow religious freedom and many Turks I met on an individual basis did not care what one believed, apparently, some groups do not like competition. Overall Turkiye is a free country but it seems not when it comes to religion or in comparison to the USA. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2009 at 14:07
Islamic groups are also closely watched by the Turkish government. I think the Turkish government fears religious turmoil and political instability that would follow.
In practice, that means that Turks are free to be secular, practice moderate forms of Islam or to practice Christianity or Judaism if that is their "inherited" religion. Successful convert movements to either Christianity or fundamentalist Islam can threaten the political / religious balance in Turkey.
As a side note, I would much rather explain to the Turkish Police that I converted from moderate Islam to Christianity than explain that I have been Muslim from birth but have "awakened" to Wahhabi Islam.
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 08-Sep-2009 at 14:28
that makes it more clear -thanks ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 09-Sep-2009 at 13:25
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Kemal Ataturk really brought Turkiye into both the 20th and because of his influences the 21st c. AD To the Greeks he was bad but to the Turks he was a Saint, just keep it there please. I don't want to turn this into some type of Greek/Turk fight.
Sad, for the reasons you mention Christians probably could not have a huge prayer ralley like this in your capital. see link: http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/belief-blog/2009/sep/03/muslim-prayers-to-surround-us-capitol/ With all its faults America has freedom of religion. Was Kemal religious in any way at all? ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Hypocrisy
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 04:55
Atatürk wasn't religious at any point of his whole life. He might have tried to seem slightly religious to earn greater respect from the public and make his way towards independence. He couldn't have achieved his goals without exhorting people's (religious) sentiments which is key to public loyalty at that time. A bunch of people whose religious values were excessively appraised by the Ottoman Empire must be indoctrinated in a decent way in terms of religion. This is what he has done during his leadership, in my opinion. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 10-Sep-2009 at 12:25
I think Presidents such as Reagan did the same thing with the large Christian movement in America in the 80's ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Ana
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2009 at 14:33
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Cryptic
Saudi Arabia culture is not Islamic culture only part of it , even Saudi word is just copied from the Royal family last name , and as to Ataturk, I think he and Some Arab , ally aganist Othmans Empire by fighting to each other had already planned by Western to destroy this huge empire , in another word , no doubt , he was traitor .
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2009 at 16:29
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2009 at 16:32
I can't understand your post. By the way, it's not "Othman" it's Osman in Turkish. Osmanli = Ottoman. Many Turks acknowledge Ataturk made some mistakes politically as President, but the only ones that think he was a "traitor" are non-Turks who have absolutely no knowledge of Turkish history. Most Turks wouldn't even be around today if it weren't for him. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 15-Sep-2009 at 17:01
Hmmm if Saudi Arabia is not an Islamic theocratic state and culture then the Pope is not a Roman Catholic but this is for another thread please. Kemal did a lot to prepare his people for the future and get them out of the 7th century but for that you would call him a traitor- to who? Not to the Turks! I spent time in wonderful Turkiye and I am half Greek. I don't like what he did to the Greeks but that is another thread, overall, he was good for the Turkish people. The west planned it out - sounds like conspiracy theory to me. The Ottoman Empire, like what happened to the Roman Empire, was dying. I am sure the west helped it along but I doubt if Kemal was any part of such a conspriracy. I can understand why the Turks see him as a hero much in the same way Americans, like myself, view George Washington. ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 17-Sep-2009 at 14:34
No, to be short it's because Kurds can't speak, read nor teach in their own language. They can't listen to Kurdish music. Kurdish names and holidays are forbidden. Kurd do not exist in Turkey, many Kurds raise their children as Turks - until they flee to Europe, US etc. Hundred of thousands of Kurds have been assimilated already; around 3.000 villages have been wiped off the map, leaving almost 400.000 Kurds homeless. Not to mention the time you get in prison for saying your true nationality, and the treatment you get ... I've barely touched the surface, my brother. When you take away their homes, rape their women and kill their men - even insignificant animals would take up arms and fight for their rights. Don't you think ? I made this thread to understand why he was unpopular among regular muslims, not Kurds - that I already knew too well.
Why Turkey has to stick to Islamic values? He abolished the religion-based establishments due to the regressive impact of an highly islamic tradition on the society. I myself find that choice pertinent. Islam, this absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, is a rotting corpse which poisons our lives. Mustafa Kemal Ataturk Religion is a lifestyle, I don't understand how the same muslim who believe in Allah also praise Ataturk - doesn't make sence to me.
Set aside that Kemal replaced the Islamic calendar with the Gregorian calendar. Set aside that Kemal replaced the Arabic script with the Latin script. Set aside that Kemal closed all religious schools. Set aside that Kemal banned traditional clothing. Those actions were necessary in order to move forward… So why do you ardently stand up against the movements of a necessary enlightenment ? These were a nessecity, the rest wasn't. I'm not against a movement of enlightment, I'm against how Ataturk implemented this "enlightment" of his.
He, by no means, ruled over the local mosques. He just straightened them up for the well-being of the fresh state. He prohibited Islamic traditions, practices and religious activites - that's more than "just straighten up". Islamic influence on social shperes were also prohipited.
Your above statement simply adds up to the prohibiton of freedom isn't factual at all. Human rights reports show something else ...
I must admit that your sheer hatred against Atatürk stands out prominently. He tried to remove/reduce the notable influence of religious values over the population to avoid irreversible revolts against the brand new system of himself. But revolts were still made, by those capable of doing so. The rest were either too weakened or displaced to an desert place. Remember 1925, 1930 and the of aerial bombarments of civillians ?
Are you aware of the condition of the Ottoman Empire at that time? Do you think it is easy to reunite an entirely fragmented nation? It takes more than you think it does to forge many seperate partitions of a dissolved nation into a solid one once again. You have to go through the darkness (name it whatever you want) to reach up for the light. Atatürk called the shots to catch up on his task. He built a house upon a totally destroyed basement. You got to clean up the basement first.
That's why we have a popular investigation called "Ergenekon". The state is currently purged off the unwanted bureaucrats who protect those reforms.. Btw, I don't want this thread to turn into Kurd vs turk chickfight like in many other forums. I asked a question, it got answered. Thanks. A. -------------
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What you're doing is simply adding up the poor positives.Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2009 at 07:43
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Ataturk was a pragmatist, most of the nonsense Azadi writes is recycled old school propaganda, he makes the guy sound like an extremist. Let's get a few things straight. - Ataturk did not "ban" religion in any shape, way or form, he bought in reform, the country had a largely uneducated populace and was full of charlatans claiming to be holy men using religion for their own personal power and wealth. The reform meant, to be a religious authority you must be an educated theologian, religion must be what is actually taught in the book, the Holy books must be translated so that everybody can understand not just a small elite who can use their knowledge to keep the masses under their thumb. - Ataturk did not ban mosques or places or worship, infact he opened the new parliament with prayers. - A religious department of affairs was established, which is quite unusual in a secular country, the Ottomans had a similar institution. - Alot of the more extreme laws and regulations were introduced a long time after Ataturk but they used his name to justify what they had done. ------------- What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal. Albert Pine |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 01:20
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Posted by azadi; "No, to be short it's because Kurds can't speak, read nor teach in their own language. They can't listen to Kurdish music. Kurdish names and holidays are forbidden. Kurd do not exist in Turkey, many Kurds raise their children as Turks - until they flee to Europe, US etc. Hundred
of thousands of Kurds have been assimilated already; around 3.000
villages have been wiped off the map, leaving almost 400.000 Kurds
homeless. Not to mention the time you get in prison for saying your
true nationality, and the treatment you get ... I've barely
touched the surface, my brother. When you take away their homes, rape
their women and kill their men - even insignificant animals would take
up arms and fight for their rights. Don't you think ?"
Dont make terorist propoganda here. This is the lies and propgandist sources used by pkk/kongre gel terroist organisation. İm in turkey living here from my born. Peoples can talk which language they want. Look the streets , cafes other places you will see that. İ have kurd friends they talk too. lots of childrens dont know turkish but know kurdish before go to the schools in east anatolia. So how can kurdish be banned. İts a lie used by terroists. Hundresds of thousand Turks assimilated by kurds. lots of cities populated by turks at the start of Turkis republic now mostly populated by kurdish ones. İ will give an example from myself. my surname is balabanli. balabanli beloging to avşars who is one of oguz tribes. we comed anatolia with the other oğuz tribes, and go the bulgaria at 1550s. They turned back to anatolia at 1887-1888 Ottoman Russia war. (like most of Turks in bulgaria , macedoania). Some of balabanli go to the thrace, some of them east anatolia. ı come from who go to thrace. But now other ones who got other way they speak kurdish and know themselves kurd. they assimilated by kurds there. So we cant talk a assimilation of kurds. Because its not. Abuot villages and homeles kurds. Who do it. İ clearly know it. Pkk teroristes. Pkk a terroist organnization who is poltical aim to seprate the Turkey and found a free kurdistan. How pkk founded? İts first offansive start on kurds. They killed most of the kurds to fear hem. They killed which kurds rezist and not support their organization. Whats their firs big attemp ? tehy killed 30 civilians ina a bus. They burn down the villages who dont support them. Killed, kidnapped childs and womans. ı can show lots of photogrph who civilians killed by pkk teroristes. The PKK is listed as a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism - terrorist organization internationally by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_organizations_that_list_the_PKK_as_a_terrorist_group - a number of states and organizations , including the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States - United States , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-USTerrorList2-5 - [6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations - United Nations , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-scheffer-11 - [12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO - NATO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-scheffer-11 - [12] and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union - European Union . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-scheffer-11 - [12] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-csm-12 - [13] The organization is listed as one of the 12 active terrorist organizations in Turkey as of 2007 according to the Counter-Terrorism and Operations Department of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Directorate_of_Security - Turkish police . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-13 - [14] Turkey labeled the organization as an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_nationalism - ethnic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession - secessionist organization that uses terrorism and the threat of force against both civilian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-csm-12 - [13] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers_Party#cite_note-14 - [15] and military targets for the purpose of achieving its political goal.
İn turkey kurds or other peopes have same rights. No differences between. we haved kurd president, prime ministers. Lots of parlimenter,s in our parlimnt today. So dont believe this terorist propogande. ------------- |
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Posted By: Messopotamian
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 06:49
Please look Turkey's 1980.Kurdish language was banned but Ozal lifted
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2009 at 07:59
there was a coup in Turkey at 1980. Generals ruled about 4 year to country. and it isn only kurdish . All the languages expect Turkish. it isnt appliyed because of its stupidness. lots of bad thing done to the people at this times. Turks , kurds etc, to all the poplation. But it was past and ım talking about today, not past. Today we have a goverment tv which talking kurdish only. ------------- |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2009 at 12:44
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Messopotamian, bra - talking to nationalists is like talking to a wall. Iskit, Kurds in northern part of Kurdistan can write, print and say whatever and whenever they want. Are you happy now ? /gives cookie -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2009 at 23:31
There is nowhere like northen part of kurdistan. There are kurds who live in ıraq, Turkey, iran etc. As a Turk we have no problems with Kurds. But have huge problem wit teroristes like yuo. ------------- |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2009 at 13:13
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I need to discuss with you, or you won't quit posting kemalist agenda on this forum. *sigh* First, a Kurd who does not recognize Kurdistan as a whole, is not Kurdish. Therefore I do not believe you have any Kurdish friends (as you have stated in many other threads), if you had - they would not hang out with your kind. I lived in Turkey, Ankara to be specific, for many years, alongside real Turks - musicians, soldiers, mechanics, lawyers, you-name-it, so I know. I now have Turkish friends in Norway, and each and everyone of them fled Turkey because of the brutal general-ruled terror regime in Turkey. Here they learn the truth behind the Turkish leaders, and the way they treated, and still treat, Kurds, Armenians and many, many other nationalities within their artificial boarders. Turks here are proud of their true history, and they don't need to hide behind fake and artificially re-wroten historybooks. If you call PKK terrorist, you have to call the Turkish military-ruled government that same. Take PKK's actions and multiply them by 10.000, the number you get is very, very close to the terrorist actions made by your government. To the main point, DO NOT come with false statements and accusations. Kurds in northern part of Kurdistan are mostly poor farmers living in very bad conditions. Some of them have to build houses inside of caves, because they refuse to live inside the paperhouses the government lends out. The women are being raped, the men are trying to forget their misery by drinking and taking narcotics, the children are either being taught up as Turks, so that they can have opportunities for the future, or leaving to the mountains - or taken into the army. Of course some Kurds have gotten out of the misery, but they're still way beyond the Turks both economically and socially, even though they have a longer and more rich culture and history. (TRT-SHESH/TRT6, the state sponsored television is filled up with kemalist propaganda. That's the reason no Kurd ever watches it. It never, ever, mentions Kurdistan, Kurdish history, Kurdish leaders, Kurdish human rights and so on. Not one famous Kurdish artist or entertainer wants to join and help develop this channel. There are 20 million Kurds in North-Kurdistan, with tens of thousands of famous Kurdish musicians and entertainers - but not ONE of them wants to join TRT-SHESH. Why ?! Well, Rojin did join - but when she saw what the reason behind the founding of the channel was - she left at once. Sivan Perwer, Ciwan Haco, Ibrahim Tatlises, Mahsum Kirmizgul, Alisan, Koma Berxudan - they're all VERY famous Kurdish artists in North-Kurdistan - but none of them thanked yes to the offer of joining the channel. Why ?) Please stop all this, Turks love Kurds BS. I know from experience that Turks between the age of 10-25 are the worst nationalists ever. When they get older they know who manipulated them, but they can't do anything - because of the military and the generals. Btw, put in how you want, I'm a member of PDKI - Party Demokrati Kurdistani Iran. Find ONE terrorist-move this organization has done, and I give you the right to call me terrorist. Until then leave your nazi-kemalist-ideology in your pocket, mr. genocide-denier. A.
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Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 21-Oct-2009 at 07:45
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These last days the Turkish government showed some mercy towards the Kurds, and proved it can be a democracy when it wants. Biji Tirkiye!  Kurdno xo bigrin, Gerilla hatin! -------------
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Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2009 at 11:07
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Today the very first Kurdish class was held in North-Kurdistan. Until today, this was forbidden. Some small progress is being made, eventually. -------------
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Posted By: Hypocrisy
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2009 at 10:40
Do you sincerely believe that they do it willingly for the Kurdish citizens? I hope you figure out the blatant cover-up of evident vote concerns under the name of "democratic expansion". |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2009 at 12:49
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Not now and never ever, the Turkish government and it's leaders have never done something to help the Kurds only - this is a basic bi-effect of it's reforms made to try joining the EU. But well - if I write and say that Turkey will punish me and put me in prison for trying to humiliate the Turkish republic and military.... Brother, nothing is done for the Kurds - it's just funny to see a Turkish reform hitting back at their face. I suppose you know our saying; no friends but the mountains. A. -------------
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Posted By: Efendi
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2009 at 15:35
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He is seen traitor among some muslim group. Because he wasn't islamist leader. They understand and accept anything in the religious way. Women, State, Sex anything should be religious and religious issue. It is their limitation of understanding the things. There is some more reasons to add. In many islamic countries values like democracy freedom market economy seen negative, they are against to these values. Because these values bar them harvesting the public. |
Posted By: Efendi
Date Posted: 30-Oct-2009 at 15:47
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He is seen a traitor because he wasn't religious leader. He didn't have religious rethoric on Jihad and such things. He is seen as traitor by the world who are apt to percieve any thing on religious. For them anything is religious issue. Sex is religious.women is religious, state is religious, nonbelievers are enemy of islam..etc. It limit their perspective. Also they are against to idea like democracy, free market economy, free speech, freedom of religion ..etc. Because these values limit their power on harvesting the society. Atatürk is not religious issue. Everybody should mind their own religion as they do mind with their own bussiness. |