Mysteries of Darabgerd (Round City of Darius)
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Topic: Mysteries of Darabgerd (Round City of Darius)
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: Mysteries of Darabgerd (Round City of Darius)
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2009 at 01:23
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Today I looked at Google map and found some very interesting views of the ancient round city of Darabgerd in the south of Darab, of cource the city of Darab is also old.
Some more info about the large Azarakhsh Fire temple in the heart of mountain: http://www.amordaden.blogfa.com/post-183.aspx - http://www.amordaden.blogfa.com/post-183.aspx as you read it was originally a temple of Aryan Mehr worshipors or better to say a Mithraeum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraeum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraeum (Mithraeum is a place of worship for the followers of the mystery religion of Mithraism.)
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Replies:
Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2009 at 11:49
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Darabger? it should be Darabkart/d thanks Cyrus for satellite images |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2009 at 13:58
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I had never heard Darabkart/d!! Of course this city is also called Darabjerd which is the Arabicized version of this Persian word, the reason is just that there is no 'g' sound in Arabic language and Persian "g" is usually changed to "j" in this language, like Gorgan which has been chaned to "Jorjan" in Arabic. -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2009 at 12:01
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I still say it's Darabkard Gardizi: " ... Shahr-e Darabkard o bana farmod va Darabshah be Mesr ..." & Shatrestanhaei Eranshatr:  I read " Shatrestani Darapkart Daraei Daraian kart " & Titus: Sentence: 42 šahrestān dārāb-kird dārāy ī dārāyān kard. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2009 at 09:43
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But according your own http://www.aariaboom.com/content/view/2316/372 - link of that Middle Persian book, that is Darabgerd (دارابگرد), anyway the Persian suffix "-gerd" (town, city) has an old Indo-European origin and comes from PIE base *gher- "to enclose", it can be comapred with Germanic suffix "-gard" (Old Norse Asgard & German Stuttgart), Slavic "-grad" (Russian Leningrad), ... -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2009 at 10:40
  then the last Word is Gerd! Shatrestani Darapgerd Daraie Daraian gerd!!! I also put Titus transliteration. I read wrong, is Titus wrong too?? ِDo you refer to my link to Šahrestānhā ī Ērānšahr, Turaj daryaei? yes he read this word gerd but why it's not same for: Sentence: 48 Turaj daryaei: ایران-کرد-شاپور Titus: ērān-kard-šāpuhr me: Eran kart Shapuhr Sentence: 54 Turaj daryaei:ایران-اسان-کرد-قباد Titus: ērān-āsān-kard-kawād me: Eran asan kart For both he read Kard, but just for this on he read Gerd!! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2009 at 06:50
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I don't know what you mean, there are certainly some differences between Persian verbs and suffixes, a verb at the end makes a sentence in Persian, don't you think that there should at least some cities in Modern Persian with the suffix "-kard"?!! If you read it: -------------
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Darabkard then this one 
should be Yazdkard, not Yazdgerd.Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2009 at 11:51
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I asked it today: Kart in some cases has been changed to Gerd in modern persian but this Gerd doesn't mean Gerd, that Gerd in Pahlavi is Girt  : in Pahlavi => YazatKart & in modern persian => Yazdgerd but does not mean "enclosed yazat"!"Shatrestani Darapkart Daraei Daraian kart" => Dara son Dara built Darapkart  : this word holds that sentence: Darap Kart : built by Dara |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2009 at 13:18
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However the Proto-IE verb *gher- means "to enclose" but different similar words come from it, as you read http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=yard&searchmode=none - here like Old English gyrdan "to gird, encircle" and Persian gardidan "to circulate, round", so Yazdgerd simply means "God/Yazat around [him]", doesn't it? Anway I think "enclosed by God/Yazat" can be better name than "built by God/Yazat", don't you think so? -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2009 at 14:39
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Cyrus, in Pahlavi it's Kart than changed to gerd in modern I think it's not right to mean the word in new shape by old word, these are 2 different words. Yazdgerd is still being created by god, isn't it? ;) I'll ask about Yazdgerd |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2009 at 06:27
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You know "K" and "G" symbols in the Middle Persian (Pahlavi) alphabet are almost the same, like some other different letters which have similar symbols in this alphabet, as I remember the symbol of "K" can be read as "K" just at beginning of the word, otherwise as "G", so you can't say for sure how a word was eactly pronounced by just reading a Middle Persian script, sometimes ago in Tehran University Dr. Turaj Daryaei held a seminar about a new discovered Sassanid coin, however there was a readable Pahlavi script on this coin but Dr. Daryaei said this script can't help use because it can be read in several different forms, so he just discussed about images on the coin. -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2009 at 10:25
I asked about Yazdger, it means "
created by god" " Xoda afarid, Xoda dad "
Na Ex:  Kost=Region or Kavos or Kaixosro
Na, "Ke" is only "ke" "Ye, De, Dh, Ge, Je" has same shape  Eran: 2nd is "Ye" Kart: 1st on is "Ke" Gorganare "Ke" & "Ge" look same? What you want is Girt:  is it look same as Kart?& at last it's not change anything, someone like to read only this one "Ge" instead "Ke", on problem but it's not a reason for changing the meaning Samarkant pronounce SamarQand nowadays may I translate Qand as sugar ? |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2009 at 11:55
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I just looked at Dr. Mohsen Abolghasemi's "A Manual of Old Iranian Languages" (راهنماي زبانهاي باستاني ايران) page 170:
It says what I said: «symbol of "K" can be read as "K" just at beginning of the word, otherwise as "G"», so that word couldn't be Darabkard but Darabgerd. -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2009 at 13:35
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wow, I posted an example K as K at beginning ok here is right one, K as K everywhere!  Damik=> Zamin: Earth Evak=> Yek: one Nevak=> Nik: well& this one has both:  Gevak=>Ja:place& by this rule Gorgan should be Gorkan, but it's not!why have should they write K & read g when there is letter to show it???? |
Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2009 at 13:49
I proved it's wrong is one word or a compound of 2? Darap + Kart or ur Gerd as u see writer left space between 2 words & more ex. from Šahrestānhā ī Ērānšahr Maleka malek, a Hozvaresh for Shahan sha Alaksandr Nikir or SamarKand, if it was Gant, what's the meaning of Gant? Gantak=Dirty Kant=>Kand=~dig we still say dastkand not dastgand |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2009 at 01:31
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Behi, it denpends on our knowledge of the words, as much as we know Samargant, Tashgant, ... are wrong, Darabkert, Dastkerd, Susankert, ... are also wrong. For example look at the first sentence of "Shahrestaniha i eran":
According to Titus: http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/texte/etcs/iran/miran/mpers/jamasp/jamas.htm?jamas002.htm - Click Here , it is read as: "pad nām ud nērōg ud ayārīh ī dādār ohrmazd, jadag ī nēk.", as you see, -------------
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exists in the words "nērōg", "jadag" and "nēk", in two wrods it is read as "g" and the last one as "k".Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2009 at 04:07
Yes, wrong, it’s Kart & if you say it’s wrong too, what is right?? Gert??? but you said here:
is it which knowledge that says Gert is right??!! this one:
I said K is just as K & proved this rule is wrong:
or this one: our ancestors had 2 words for Gerd?! They wrote one Kart, read & meant sometimes Gerd & one, Girt, read & meant it Gerd inqadr ahmaq bodan? & show me where is the Pahlavi word of Gerd You brings up Titus, ok , it’s same source that says:
I agree it’s still wrong, just K is right “i” & “d” is wrong as you see here:
Both says Kard & not Girt or Gerd or Kirt, also the “D” is still wrong & here:
I said: K during age changed to g & then H as:Farzanak=>Farzanag=>Farzaneh or deleted from word: Menok=>Menog=>Mino then by this rule am I allowed to read: Nik=> NiH Nerok=> NeroH DarapHart BirHant SamarHand It’s what the readers done. in some words they read G because the pronunciation changed to G in next periods, they saw it’s Birjand then they thought it was G, it’s right until here, but they thought it always from 1st day of creation was G & then made such this wrong rule
answer me, sometime our ancestors liked reed K & sometimes G!?WHY? Prove it for me what healthy mind accept that to write something & read totally different one this time try answer to me instead running |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2009 at 05:01
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I think you certainly know Pahlavi script was derived from Aramaic and used an abjad alphabet, so there was no "G" sound and the symbols of "J" and "K" were used for this sound too, we know Modern Persian suffix "-gerd" existed in the Old Persian as "-garta" like in Asagarta (Sagartia), therefore it won't be difficult to say the word should be certainly read as "Daragerd/Darabgart". -------------
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2009 at 07:50
I agree but not at that meaning what you want
or at last you accept it is not circle, don't you? about Ashakart:   p36, Farhang-e Hozvareshhai-e Dabire Pahlavi, Dr. Freydon Joneidi somthing more: between "k" & "R""a" in pahlavi is default sound & not need to show by  but "e" or "Ei" needs 
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Posted By: Behi
Date Posted: 13-Aug-2009 at 08:21
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I found Article & posted in Persian section: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27608&PID=625162#625162
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2009 at 16:12
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Just why did you all just not rest and regard the word(s) as meaning "en-circle?", IE, "gird!" or even "rotund!"
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/DAH_DEM/DARAB_originally_DARABGERD_.html Maybe the allusion to Darius is a later assumption? By the way what a great place! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: shirazchem
Date Posted: 13-Dec-2010 at 14:32
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Dear all My name is Esmael. I born in Darab (near of the ancient city of Darabgerd) "Darabger" consist of two part: "Darab" and "Gerd" "Darab King" was on of the Sassanian Empire king, and "Gerd" means "circular" Best Wishes Esmael Balaghi Email: sebalaghi@gmail.com sebalaghi@iasbs.ac.ir |