3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27330
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 02:18
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Topic: 3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
Posted By: Carcharodon
Subject: 3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
Date Posted: 01-Jun-2009 at 20:11
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A replica of an ancient Egyptian ship of the kind that used to sail to Punt has been tested and proven very seaworthy and capable:
3800 year old Egyptian ship rebuilt and sailed
http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=5983 - http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=5983
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Replies:
Posted By: fantasus
Date Posted: 02-Jun-2009 at 08:55
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 05:02
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Curious. If they were such a good sailors why they subcontracted Phoenicians for the job? ------------- |
Posted By: fantasus
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 08:41
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Posted By: fantasus
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 08:45
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In another way too Egypt is extraordinary, since it is located at the only natural landbridge (at least in recent times) between the two biggest landmasses - Euraisan and African - and between the two important waters, Meditteranean And Red Sea. In a near similar position lie the land many seems as "Holy". |
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: 03-Jun-2009 at 19:46
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Even if you are a splendid sailor you can always find someone who is better. And if you are smart then you take advantage of his knowledge. Take Sweden as an example, ever since the viking age (and even earlier) Swedes and other nordic people had been good sailors but still Sweden in the 17th century hired dutch shipbuilders to help them build warships and other vessels. |
Posted By: WolfHound85
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 04:58
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Awesome article I had no idea Egypt's maritime technology was so advanced.
------------- College Student |
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: 04-Jun-2009 at 20:31
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If you want to read about ancient Egyptian ships and shipbuilding this book gives a good introduction:
Landström, Björn, 1970: Ships of the Pharaohs: 4000 Years of Egyptian Shipbuilding.
It is some years old but still very good and with splendid illustrations made by the author.  Picture of the Swedish edition
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 10:16
Ability to build ships doesn't mean ability to sail them or fight them.
The 18th century French were better ship builders than the British. ------------- |
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 13:38
The 17th century Swedish could sail but the Dutch were better in buildning good ships, and they also taught the Swedes how to sail, manouvre and fight with the new and improved ships.
The old Egyptians could both build and sail ships, even if they eventually got surpassed by fenicians and greeks.
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 14:17
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What the Dutch were especially good at was building ships that could navigate in (relatively) shallow waters. Did that interest the Swedes?
And of course the Swedes had plenty of raw materials for shipbuilding at hand. A good basis for co-operation. ------------- |
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:09
Sweden was very much interested in navigating shallow waters since it has many archipelagos with shallow water, especially in the Baltic Sea.
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Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:46
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Athens' ships, in the days of the Peleponesian War, were largely manned
by "foreign mercenaries", which I presume included Greeks
from non-aligned city-states. Some historians have commented on the international makeup of sailors
who manned Spain's ships in the "Golden Age". Arturo Perez-Reverte, a
novelist who is no mean historian when to comes to detail, portrays the
crews of Mediterranian galleys as fairly international in makeup. Herman Melville, in "Moby Dick", comments on how international nature of the crews on U.S. whaling ships in the first part of the 19th Century. Apparently up until the Age of Nelson, the sailors actually manning naval ships were technically civilians. Only the ships' officers, marines, and gunners were considered military personnel. Perhaps the early Egyptian fleets were similarly manned. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 15:53
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A "Puntland" currently exists as a "state" of Somalia, and comprises the Horn of Africa. If the Egyptian "Punt" and Puntland are identical, then the ship in question sailed the Red Sea, and would not have gotten out into the "High Seas". There is no reason to suppose that it didn't at least travel down some of the East African and South Arabian coasts, unless, of course, the Egyptians could get everything they wanted in Punt. Yemen, across the entrance to the Red Sea, was also an important trading post.
------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: Carcharodon
Date Posted: 05-Jun-2009 at 16:18
| The historical sources regarding Punt in ancient time seems to bee a bit vague. Schoolars have suggested trading ports in Sudan, Eritrea, Djibouti, Yemen or Somalia. |
Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2009 at 11:24
The eighteenth century Royal Navy shipped a fair number of non-British crew, including black Africans: Captain Marryat, a Napoleonic veteran, has an important African character in the novel Mr Midshipman Easy, written in 1836 but set during the Napoleonic wars.
I don't know what you mean by 'military personnel'. It's certainly true that well before Nelson's time all members of the ships' crews were expected to fight, and 'gunners' were not a breed apart but had roles in sailing the ship when not in action (and most of the time of course they wren't). Even marines had roles in enforcing discipline on board, not just in fighting the enemy.
The major distinction until fairly late was more marked in some other navies with the distinction between those officers responsible for sailing the ship and for fighting, and those who took command for fighting only. I think though that at least the western European navies had got rid of that distinction before the 18th century: basically it's a rather medieval concept.
Probably. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 16:24
The Phoenicians were Africans |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 18:34
They were? From what site can you field sources? You actually connect Phoenicia to Africa! I want some of the orange juice you drink! Laugh! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 19:21
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GCLE, Melville also has two Black characters in Moby Dick. One, a sailor, proves not to have the mettle for whaling. But the other is an African they picked up on some coast who rose to become a Harpooner, which Melville underscores carries the status of a ship's officer, and not a mere sailor.
------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 19:54
And, just what does the above have to do with Phoenician = African? "They call me Ishmael!" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moby-Dick Let's see? 19th century whaling ships versus Phoenician ships? Duh? Whoops! I just noticed that you were answering GCLE!, and not me! Sorry! I am old and quick to pull the trigger! Laugh! I guess I was expecting a response from "badass!", sorry I mean "Badazz..." Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 20:19
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No worries, Mate. Done that a few times myself. Perhaps someone here has confused the Carthaginians, those descendants of the Phoenicians who settled on the North African coast, with that Middle Eastern people. If the Carthaginians were African, then Charlize Theron is an African (or Afrikaaner) as well. Still, I don't think she would argue that such gives her any genetically ordained skills in maritime navigation. Pardon this reductio ab absurdum, but that seems to be what that post was meant to elicit. ------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 20:43
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OK, Lirelu! Now we understand each other!
But, just what would we call the "pirates" who sailed the Med., with impunity from Africa for literally hundreds of years? Were they "Goths?", or "Vandals?" or "Dutch?" or "Africans?" Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Shield-of-Dardania
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2010 at 21:50
That ship's age would make its time 1800 BC. That would have been around the time of Hyksos occupation of Egypt, when Pharaoh Seqen, Queen Ahhotep, and subsequently their sons Kamose and Ahmose, were fighting to liberate Egypt from Pharaoh Apophis, the foreign Hyksos emperor.
Apophis was succeeded as Pharaoh by Khammudi, his treasurer-minister. Both Seqen and Kamose did their parts valiantly, but were killed during their independence fight. Only youngest son Ahmose eventually succeeded, with the help of his able and equally valiant mother, becoming the new native Egyptian pharaoh of a new dynasty. ------------- History makes everything. Everything is history in the making. |
Posted By: lirelou
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 08:29
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Opus, where I went to University, they were called 'corsarios'. In English, Barbary Corsairs, or Barbary Pirates. I believe you'll find that such was the term used to describe them by the newly born U.S. Navy. (Stephen Decatur? The USMC 'mamaluke sword', etc.) 'African' would have been a bit simplistic, no?
------------- Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 01-Apr-2010 at 14:34
Yes, you seem to have pulled the last name for these people from a bunch of earlier possibilites! http://www.swashbuckler.co.nz/Realpirates/PiratesMed.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy "The Barbary pirates were pirates and privateers that operated from North African (the "Barbary coast") ports of Tunis, Tripoli, Algiers, Salé and ports in Morocco, preying on shipping in the western Mediterranean Sea from the time of the Crusades as well as on ships on their way to Asia around Africa until the early 19th century. The coastal villages and towns of Italy, Spain and Mediterranean islands were frequently attacked by them and long stretches of the Italian and Spanish coasts were almost completely abandoned by their inhabitants; after 1600 Barbary pirates occasionally entered the Atlantic and struck as far north as Iceland. According to Robert Davis[26][27] between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves in North Africa and Ottoman Empire between the 16th and 19th centuries. The most famous corsairs were the Ottoman Hayreddin and his older brother Oruç Reis (Redbeard), Turgut Reis (known as Dragut in the West), Kurtoğlu (known as Curtogoli in the West), Kemal Reis, Salih Reis and Koca Murat Reis. A few Barbary pirates, such as Jan Janszoon and John Ward [Yusuf Reis], were renegade English privateers who had converted to Islam. According to the U.S. Supreme Court, the United States treated captured Barbary corsairs as prisoners of war, indicating that they were considered as legitimate privateers by at least some of their opponents, as well as by their home countries." The key words from the above are; "...preying on shipping in the western Mediterranean Sea from the time of the Crusades as well as on ships on their way to Asia around Africa until the early 19th century." Lets see, the Crusades? lets say some where in the middle of the 1200's to sometime in the early 1820's?, so lets just say from 1220 CE, to 1820 CE? It appears that one group or another seems to have profitited from piracy while being located in a few special areas upon the shore line of N. Africa from Carthage to Gibralta, for about 700 continous years!!! Even if we cut 100 years from this suggestion, we are left with a period of 600 years!!! This seems to have really been an Empire!, and a long lived one at that! And, surprisingly this entire part of the coast line of N. Africa, is also reportedly one that was repeatedly conquered and settled by the Phoenicians, the Goths, the Vandals, and the Saracens or Moors or Arabs, and then by the Ottomans? And,it seems the largest business of this coastal area was piracy and slave trade! For me to go further, I would have to post in the Revisionist History section!, or receive my exile on Elba! Laugh! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2011 at 02:17
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consensual history/Persian version of world history believers,just read here: The ship’s speed means that journeys would be made in much less time than Egyptologists had calculated, making the whole voyage simpler and more feasible for the ancients. The technology we used had not been applied to shipbuilding for more than 3,500 years, and it still works as well today as it did then. Read here about last centuries only: http://www.phouka.com/pharaoh/pharaoh/dynasties/dyn33/01pto1.html Ptolemy the Second built channel from Nile to golf of Suez : Ptolemy II is called Philadelphus (which means "Brother/Sister Loving"), probably due to the fact that he married his full sister, Arsinoe II. He had a joint reign with her, and during their time as rulers, the Ptolemaic empire reached its greatest size. Trade was enhanced by a chain of towns he founded along the coast which supported trade with India and Arabia. Ptolemy II was the pharaoh responsible for the http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/alexandria/qaitbai-01.html - Pharos Lighthouse , which was finished during his reign (about 280) and it may have been him, instead of his father who was responsible for the creation of the original Museion and http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/alexandria/library-01.html - Library . He commissioned Jewish scholars from Jerusalem to translate the Pentateuch into Greek for the Library collection, continuing his father's efforts to make Alexandria a cultural center in the region. Every four years, Ptolemy II sponsored a celebration in honor of his father, patterned after the Olympic games of Rome. He also built a canal from the Nile to the Gulf of Suez. Despite the cultural advances of Ptolemy II's rule, he remained at war with Syria until he married off his daughter Berenice to the SYrian king, Antiochus II to cement a political peace. There is some evidence that his first wife, Arsinoe, was repudiated so he could marry his sister, who was also named Arsinoe. During his reign, a general register of Egypt was produced, listing all the fields, canals, and agricultural areas. The register was designed to allow for accurate tax collecting -- the income used to develop foreign trade and support foreign politics. Ptolemy II started temples at the http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/aswan/philae/00philae.html - Island of Philae , adding temples to http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/aswan/elephantine-01.html - Elephantine , and fragments of temples at Thebes. Other structures from his reign exist in http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/saqqara/00saqqara.html - Saqqara , and the http://www.phouka.com/tr/egypt/photos/maidum/00fayoum.html - Fayoum oasis. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2011 at 02:37
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What will be next?Artifacts for Columbian cartel ancient ties with Europe?Dust to dust,ashes to ashes! White powder  always change the world. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2011 at 21:45
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All of you must know tha I. Velikovsky, assumed and promoted the theory that "Punt", which equals the "Holy land", presumed to be the area around Jerusalem! ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2011 at 02:48
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They sailed and traded for sure.Where did they?Mediterranean sea coastal area for sure.India?America?China?Poles?Scale of trading depended of population inside trading area.Will be the same if 2000 years after,Apollo moon module,they found?"We need video material that this one really have flyed to the moon" or "They had never been to the moon.Everything was photo montage". |