GOOD BY MR. BUSH!!!
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26069
Printed Date: 23-Apr-2024 at 10:59
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: GOOD BY MR. BUSH!!!
Posted By: charlesbrough
Subject: GOOD BY MR. BUSH!!!
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 14:27
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We'll be rid of you next month. Hate to see you leave (without being put in jail). . . How many more criminals will you let out of prison before you sneak home? Wouldn't the some hundred and sixty five you have already pardoned be enough to finance your darned “Presidential Library?”
In “Destiny and Civilization,” I wrote a lot about history, enough to make it clear you were not the worst leader in human history, but you were surely the worst president. We'll remember your un-win-able wars, your efforts to privatize Social Security and Medicare, your inattention to our failing infrastructure and global warming, your stand against stem-cell research and the way your Administration neglected alternative energy and introduced torture into military protocol. We saw how Iran made you and our country look silly, let North Korea string you along, and how you deliberately did all you could to alienate Russia. We are aware of the way you promoted secrecy in government and increased presidential power. And we not pleased with this economic collapse you and your friends have now brought upon us.
Just think. . . one more very long month and you'll be gone! The pollsters say there are a few people who will miss you---poor souls. The pollsters must be good at prying them out of hiding because I can't find them. Oh yes, the Wall Street Journal mentions you. It ran an article on how we should be ashamed for treating you so badly! The writer should not worry, you figure that God loves you, so you really don't care what the country thinks.
Oh, by the way, you didn't show up your father over Iraq and your brother proved to be a far better public servant than you . . .
Live with it!
------------- charles http://atheistic-science.com |
Replies:
Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 15:15
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I'll try to pass this message on to him for you.
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Posted By: charlesbrough
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 16:26
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I wish you would . . . Parnell, huh! I did not know I was talking here to the Uncrowned King of Scotland---or was it Erieland? charles http://atheistic-science.com |
Posted By: charlesbrough
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2008 at 16:27
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Ireland, that is . . . .
------------- charles http://atheistic-science.com |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 02:28
| I just hope the kind of "change" that america's people desperately needs is what Obama brings in with him. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 03:45
Hey, I bet the only thing we will miss of Bush are the endless ridiculous events he participated in. For instance, escaping flying shoes, reading books upside down, hiting his head agains the door of the official helicopter, etc. That was fun.
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Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 12:21
Sic transit gloria mundi. 
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Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 14:57
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This is Current Affairs, so I am moving it.
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Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 17:41
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What about the Iraqi throwing his shoes at Bush? Certainly a sign of how he is 'regarded' in the Arab World. Bloody warlord.
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Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 19:05
| Bush was just the fall guy for an ideological cabal, consisting of the likes of Perle and Wolfowitz ... holding him accountable for all of the problems associated with his term is falling right into a designed trap, where we put blame on symbol rather than substance. |
Posted By: Siege Tower
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 19:09
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He may be the worst president but he sure got some super relexes! |
Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 21:45
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I think it is fair to blame the man also. Whatever your views on the structural problems and interference in high office in the US, he was the man with the Veto pen and needs to be held accountable. Its exactly what those same people would like you to think - aw, he's too stupid to have been responsible for it all. ------------- |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 23:47
As somebody adeptly put it, "I am amazed someone that mentally slow can have reflexes that quick" ------------- |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2008 at 23:57
Indeed. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 00:01
Nah! He wasn't the worst, just the dumbest  ------------- |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 11:15
I guess he really likes shoes specially if they are of size 10 hahahahah, I really don't know if he even knows what a shoe means to a honorable person because after receiving the shoes from the Arab Hero Muntadhar al-Zaidi; The Journalist, He says "So what if a guy threw a shoe at me?" and later on "It was a size 10 shoe!".
That's the way he should be treated I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxNT05Qjb4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSxNT05Qjb4
And here comes the Good Bye Kiss!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzEQW_eOwEo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzEQW_eOwEo ------------- 
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Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 12:02
Well, what does a shoe mean to a so-called honorable person? I certainly have no clue, other than that it would hurt if the shoe hits, possibly making your clothes dirty. ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 15:07
P.S I couldn't help but admire the Arab bloke who flung his shoes at you. I only wish the American people had had the sense to give you the boot much earlier. ------------- |
Posted By: Akolouthos
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 16:57
It is regarded as a sign of utter contempt and a gross personal affront. Basically, if I understand it correctly, we might say that it is the equivalent of spitting on someone.
-Akolouthos
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 17-Dec-2008 at 17:28
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I am happy to see him go - darn globalist!! But, now we have another globalist Obama!!
I think Bush had many people upset- both conservatives and liberals. The exception would be the Bush apologists like Rush and other Bushbots that still think he was wonderful. Problems that many Americans had with him: The whole amnesty issue!!! the borders!!! Nafta-Cafta- which is part of the illegal immigrant problem. The poor Mexican farmers after being $^$&& out of their farms by big buisnes in both the US and Mexico were forced north. The arrest of two innocent men 'Pardon Ramos and Compean who Bush should pardon. But, he still ignores the outcry against their arrests. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58772 - http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58772 He has been pushing the North American Union which is opposed by many Americans as a threat against our Sovereignty and a threat to our constitution. http://www.conservativeusa.org/northamericanunion.htm - http://www.conservativeusa.org/northamericanunion.htm He has truly alienated himself from his conservative base. There were some issues I agreed with him on but the above list outshines any good he did. I do not want to bring these issues up since the main focus is "goodbye Bush!!!" Hurray!! Give Obama time and maybe he will be not so bad afterall or who knows he may turn out worse- time will tell. He did inherit quite a mess so can he put humpty dumpty back together- I can only hope!!   ------------- Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε |
Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 18-Dec-2008 at 22:53
Well dear Reginmund,
I guess Akolouthos has already pointed out what it means to show/throw shoe on someone in our side of the world.
But to be honest in my country Afghanistan someone would rather like to die then being in a situation where someone is throwing shoes at you.
It does not just hurt a part of someones body but his/her dignity, honor, self respect and pride.
I don't really know how is it considered in the western culture, but it would had be nice for him to shoot himself than saying; "So what? It was just a shoe of size ten!!!"
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 19-Dec-2008 at 07:25
Well, in the West no ones cares about shoes, and the so called shoe-throwing "hero" is seen as a clown (loosing his honour by loosing his calm and making a fool of himself, if you want to apply different honour codes on people from another culture, as you did with Bush). For all his faults, I liked Bush's response. It was hilarious. |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 22:15
You are assuming that he held as virtue, notions of dignity, honour, self respect and pride. You can't hurt people's honour if they has none to begin with. He has always been good at dodging anyway, afterall he is a draft dodger. ------------- |
Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 23:22
The 'West', last I checked hasn't had a uniform reaction to this. Yes, most see it as funny but also many see it as just. It is easy to talk about being calm when your entire family and nation isn't brought to its knee's by a nitwit imperialist. ------------- |
Posted By: Yugoslav
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 23:24
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I'll certainly miss this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whhbPVrb5KM ------------- "I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones." |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 23:30
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Here's some pics:   ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 20-Dec-2008 at 23:58
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His recommendation recently for his sucessor's mandate to run for office was: "he is a good family man with a wife and daughters and loves them". No ability to actually analyse policy issues the man has - he touts family values as being the ultimate qualifier for the role of most powerful man on the planet - moron! Perhaps if I marry an American woman and breed out a couple of kids I too will qualify to run the nation on the planet with the most impressive nuclear arsenal. Didn't work for Nicholas II, it won't work for anyone else with heavy geopolitical responsibilities ------------- |
Posted By: Beylerbeyi
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 12:43
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Protesters throw all kinds of things to politicians. In this case, it is obvious that this person could not bring rotten eggs, cakes, or a bucketful of slurry (which was thrown to a British politician) to a press meeting with Dubya, because the very tight security would not have allowed it. Therefore he had a limited choice of things to throw to that murdering war criminal. So he threw his shoes, it need not necessarily be a special insult. It definitely is not the ultimate insult in 'Islamic culture' as some idiots in the press write. I personally know many (white, western) protesters who would throw anything to Bush, given the chance. You would need a brave man to do that though, that much is unquestionable. Now given this, comments like;
trying to claim racial superiority over this rightous protest action are extremely sad... Nevermind wrong, as others pointed out, because most in the West agree with the protestor, and don't see him as a clown. If the Western journalists had one tenth of his balls, rather than act as cheerleaders to the Iraq war, maybe we would have avoided the current war. ------------- |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 13:43
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Hello o you all If you think the guy who threw the shoe an "Islamist" then your wrong. The guy, and you will like this Bey, is a well known ardent communist (the Iraqi communist party is quite popular in Iraq), the shoe was the only thing he could through plus in the Iraqi culture it is an insult. Anyway Bush actually outsmarted everyone during this incident with his clever reply, the only clever reply in the past 8 years, when he said that this is democracy.
Where will history put Bush? Only God knows. To me he is probably in the bottom ten for many reasons both internal and external. The obvious corruption that became rampant in the US and turned politicians into corporate agents, the wars, the roller coaster economy, Guantanamo and the blatant refusal to comply with legal rulings (pobably the first in this scale since King Andrew I). Certainly no president in the 20th century, not even Harding, had such a record.
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Beylerbeyi
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 14:41
Didn't know that. Nice to know if it's indeed the case. ------------- |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 21-Dec-2008 at 18:57
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Oh he is a communist alright. Just see his profile at the BBC where they show Che posters and communist book in his apartment. Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 10:13
Instead of making assumptions about my personal beliefs maybe you should have read what I actually wrote. It's a mystery to me how you could find any attempts of "racial superiority" or somesuch nonsense in the post. Gharanai asked about how shoe-flinging was seen in the West: "I don't really know how is it considered in the western culture, but it would had be nice for him to shoot himself". This is what I answered to, nothing else. Not how good or bad Bush is, not how righteous or not the shoe-throwing was. Just the act itself. --- And just out of curiosity, what newspapers did you read in 2003? All major papers here were more of line "Bush=Hitler!". |
Posted By: Beylerbeyi
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 12:07
Let me try to explain to you why your post was extremely offensive. In order to do that, you have to use your brain a bit, but I will help you in the steps of the process, so don't worry. 1. Dubya is responsible for illegally invading Iraq and causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. As you wrote Dubya = Hitler. The only difference between the two is Hitler was actually elected. 2. A 'goodbye' press conference is arranged, so that the Iraqi puppet government and various journalists can kiss his ass. One Iraqi is fed up with this and throws his shoe at him in an extremely brave protest action. 3. Millions around the world and in Iraq itself approve of the action or at least think that he has good reason to do what he did. I have never seen any negative comment on what he did, not in Western media nor anywhere else. 4. Some idiots in the media characteristically focus on the form of the action (throwing of a shoe) rather than why he did it. They tell us this is the 'ultimate insult' in 'Islamic culture'. They therefore create an imaginary Western/Eastern divide. As if the guy is offended because he is from 'an alien culture' rather than because his country was laid to waste. If he were Western, he would not be protesting. As if throwing shoes at someone is a sign of love and affection in 'Christian culture'... The important point is, the brave protester opposed the foreign invader and made a point which reverberated around the world. It is not important what he threw. 5. An Afghan member here is outraged by the fact that Dubya is joking about the matter, where he should be ashamed. If I had invaded Iraq and caused the death of hundreds of thousands, and an Iraqi threw me something during my own press conference, I would at least have thought 'have I done something wrong?' and would not have been joking about it. This is basic human decency and has nothing to do with your race or whatever. Dubya however, is hardly human. 6. Now, you come along with your drivel, which I will analyse in detail:
Everyone cares (or should care) about shoes if they are thrown at them in protest. You claim that the West sees the protestor a 'clown', which is wrong. As I have written, yours is the only negative comment I have seen anywhere. So not the 'West', but you personally see him as a clown, because either you are on Dubya's side (OK with the Iraq invasion) or you are massively deficient in wisdom to the degree that for you being rude to a mass-murderer for protest purposes is worse than the mass-murder's actions.
Here you claim that by losing his calm, he made a fool of himself, and lost his honour. So for you, Dubya was honourable and the protestor wasn't, because Western honour code is different (and since you say you agree with Dubya, superior). So you think that someone from an invaded country is actually offended because of their cultural inferiority (or 'difference') rather than by the fact that his country has been ravaged.
So as long as you crack a joke after it, it is OK to kill thousands. Welcome to Star Wars morality. 'Yeah, Darth Vader destroyed a planet in the first film but he saved his son in the third, so let's forgive him everyone, he is a good guy inside'. You should stop watching so many Hollywood movies.
Obviously he is asking about the event at hand, not some olympic shoe-flinging contest. And the correct answer is 'most Western people are happy about the action, and agree with it and see the protestor as a brave man'. Not 'we in the West believe that the protestor is a clown and Bush is honourable'.
I read the newspapers that mattered. The American ones. The British ones. They were all pro-war. Not Svenska Dagblatter or such. You were the one who spoke for the 'West', but now you are suddenly defining it as 'Sweden'. ------------- |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 13:25
What was so hard to understand? I specifically said I was only talking about the act of shoes alone, nothing else. If Gharanai meant the whole event as that, then I misunderstood him.
I found his response funny. Much worse massmurderers, like Stalin, Hitler etc also had their funny moments. Where did I say that makes him or anyone else a 'good guy inside'? Reading behind the lines doesn't include adding your own personal prejudice. edit:
Missed this post. Very true indeed. I realise I exagerrated, or was unclear. I wasn't talking about the protest in general, just about the specific way it was done. I got annoyed with the assertion that you're only an honourable person if you follow a certain honour code, which is the reason of my post in the first place. Personally I also see it as an entirely just protest. |
Posted By: SearchAndDestroy
Date Posted: 22-Dec-2008 at 16:05
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This Forum is about discussing views, just because you don't agree with someone else's views doesn't give the right to call them something based on a assumption of your own.
Discuss your views on this event, but don't read to much into someones post to slander them please, I think and HOPE we could keep this thread civil. Just don't want this to get off-topic early with a personal fight on who said what. And while this may have been brought on by a post above, this isn't directly aimed at one person, this is for everyone. ------------- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey 
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 18:11
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Well if I could rewind it correctly, he was the first president in America to not have walked to White House and instead was driven to it due to some egg and tomoto throwers (plz correct me if mistaken) and the same way he leaves so for sure one can say that the way he came, that he went.
hahahahahah -------------
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 19:47
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Nice thought Gharanai, but a trifle inaccurate.
The first US President not to walk in the inaugural parade was George Washington, who rode a horse. The first one to ride in a car (automobile) was Warren Harding. And the first one to walk was Jimmy Carter. ------------- |
Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 23-Dec-2008 at 21:46
Now, the real question is, did it accomplish anything? Sure, we are talking about it, but the act is not bringing up anything that we didn't know. We are just discussing how one man got to do what so many in the world want. But in the big scheme of things the shoe throwing doesn't change anything. ------------- |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 12:53
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My my, it seems this is an emotional topic. I thought of it as more of a rare moment of comedy in the world of politics; from the hilarious act of throwing shoes, which does make one look much like a clown, to Bush dodging and commenting on the shoe size. From a serious POV it must be said I'm no fan of Bush, the republicans or the conservative right in the US, but in this particular case I can't help but sympathise more with Bush who handled the situation with style and came out on top, rather than some hothead who couldn't control his emotions and embarassed himself with a futile and comical act. I understand from that a different cultural point of view having shoes thrown at one might be seen as something terrible, but I doubt anyone outside that particular circle will be aware of this. In European and East Asian cultures losing control of your emotions is seen as shameful. That being said, to torture this guy and threaten him with 15 years in prison is atrocious. His act only barely qualifies as a crime and should be punished with a heavy fine at most. ------------- |
Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 13:11
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...Losing control of our emotions is shameful is it? Thats a tad strange since we have butchered each other in an uncountable multitude of wars since the beginning of time... Seems like losing control of our emotions is the only constant human beings have. ------------- |
Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 14:25
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That's certainly a good reason to consider losing control of your emotions shameful. So in fact it makes perfect sense, and you discovered it yourself. Further, a war waged on emotions rather than cold reasoning will be lost. Keeping control of your emotions is more important in war than anything, and murder is as they say best served cold. ------------- |
Posted By: Beylerbeyi
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 16:09
Of course it accomplished things. It countered propaganda by the lying dickheads in the Western press who write that 'although Iraq is a mess, the Iraqis are better off today than they were under Saddam'. It increased the morale of the Iraqi resistance and reduced that of the occupiers. It was a protest action, clear and loud. If you still don't understand, what it means is 'even the president of the invaders is not safe from the reaction of the Iraqi people, not even in his stronghold'. In the big scheme of things, he accomplished far more than an American voting for Obama, for instance.
The protester said that he was doing it for the dead Iraqis. If you still think this is funny with Iraqi deaths in the hundreds of thousands, a. you'll learn to be respectful when you stop playing with your toy tanks and grow up, b. or if you are a teenager; stop watching too much Hollywood, c. or if you are an adult; you should be ashamed of yourself.
I have a hard time believing that anyone can be 'naive' enough to believe that this action was a spontanous outburst of violence by someone who couldn't control his emotions. That man knew exactly what he was going to do before he came to that conference room. He knew that he is in occupied Iraq and he was to attack the man responsible (at least symbolicly). He was risking being shot on the spot, tortured, or imprisoned. He knew all this, and he still did it. It was clearly a calculated action, far more so than the invasion of Iraq itself.
No, you don't understand anything at all. You just believe that some eye-rab behaved like a clown because he was unable to control his emotions due to his racial inferiority, but Bush, being white, maintained his dignity and showed the world the superiority of the western culture and the white race... And before anybody starts whining 'don't call him racist', I'll just mention that I have a backup of a nice little post where Reginmund brags that he is aware of current race-superiority theories and explains why he believes racial stereotypes on IQ are correct (i.e. believes that the niggers and wogs are idiots), practically confirming that he is a racist. So since he says that he does not like the Bush (neither do the white supremacists), I think it is likely that he is trying to use this protest to further his racist agenda.
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Posted By: SearchAndDestroy
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 16:23
I would like to just add one more rule/guideline that I think would be more accurate for Reginmund:
Or D: Respectfully disagree with Bey's views on the subject and like an adult have your own perception of a situation.
No one needs to be pigeon holed, no need to go after someone based on their views. You want to defeat someone, defeat their arguement, don't disrespect them. Views differ, just because he sees things differently doesn't mean he has to be some option that you conjured up.
Can we please try to keep this civil? I don't get why there has be arguements made to belittle people instead of arguements against a point of views. ------------- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 24-Dec-2008 at 17:17
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Settle down Bey. The season of good will to all mankind and all that.
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Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 25-Dec-2008 at 01:08
file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CKetil%5CLOKALE%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml -
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi | No, you don't understand anything at all. You just believe that some eye-rab behaved like a clown because he was unable to control his emotions due to his racial inferiority, but Bush, being white, maintained his dignity and showed the world the superiority of the western culture and the white race... - And before anybody starts whining 'don't call him racist', I'll just mention that I have a backup of a nice little post where Reginmund brags that he is aware of current race-superiority theories and explains why he believes racial stereotypes on IQ are correct (i.e. believes that the niggers and wogs are idiots), practically confirming that he is a racist. So since he says that he does not like the Bush (neither do the white supremacists), I think it is likely that he is trying to use this protest to further his racist agenda. |
- Nothing at all? That’s rather harsh.
- You seem to overanalyse me here, though I appreciate the attention. I did not have the IQ survey of Lynn and Vanhanen in mind when I wrote that post, neither would I jump from an isolated incident of an Iraqi shoe thrower to generalisations about the intelligence of his people. I do have some faith in these IQ surveys however; there is much that speaks in favour of them, little to contradict them, and seeing as the East Asians score higher than anyone it can hardly be accused of being culturally biased in favour of Europeans. But, this incident had no impact on my attitude towards the study.
- Whether or not you call me a racist doesn’t matter to me, neither should it to anyone. What matters is who is right, not who is the most PC. To clear things up right here; I do believe there are biological differences between humans who have evolved in different parts of the world under different conditions, in fact it would be more shocking if there weren’t, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone in the slightest that this also has an impact on intelligence. That is not to say that one type of human has an inherent worth higher than that of another, unless you set intelligence as the sole measuring stick.
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Don't worry about it; we are actually both on the same side, even though we disagree on the means to change the world. 
Now, where is the Kumbaya smiley?