Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2247
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 19:37
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Topic: Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?
Posted By: Long Live The Mughals
Subject: Why Have Muslims Been Hated in The West?
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 08:36
| Vote or Be Dammed |
Replies:
Posted By: Capt. Lubber
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 10:33
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I wish i could write something long and clever here. But I believe that it is due to basic cultural and religious differences. And that we have been set up against one another since forever historically. Crusades, turks in the balkans are a few conflicts amongst many ------------- Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror, Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour, Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse, A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse |
Posted By: EvilNed
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 16:50
| Because Media portrays them as savages. |
Posted By: white dragon
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 16:55
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Homophobic? Jews?
why are those even on the list? ------------- Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man. -Francis Cardinal Spellman |
Posted By: Vamun Tianshu
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 16:55
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It is because of the arrogant westerners who interprate Muslims as religious radicals who seek to destroy civilization.I personally will not answer this question,but some people need to stop letting the media propaganda take its toll,some people are so ignorant,they would look for an easy way to look at things and be lazy then look at things at their own perspectives. ------------- 
In Honor |
Posted By: Turk
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 18:36
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This has nothing to do with military history. And judging from the answers you left us to choose from, you probably came up with this question with the mentality that there is nothing wrong with the Muslim world today. ------------- 
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Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 28-Feb-2005 at 18:48
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Hmmm!! I do not know what homophobic has to do with this?????? I should get a straight pride shirt made! lol
What do you mean by Islamaphobia? I do not think that most people hate Muslims but there is historical reasons to fear it. I respect someone who wants to worship the one God as Allah as long as all other non believers are respected as equals. This web site explains our fears- it is not meant to attack Muslims or any religion!! The Status of Non-Muslim Minorities Under Islamic Rule http://www.dhimmitude.org/index.php Dhimmitude: the Islamic system of governing populations conquered by jihad wars, encompassing all of the demographic, ethnic, and religious aspects of the political system. The word "dhimmitude" as a historical concept, was coined by Bat Ye'or in 1983 to describe the legal and social conditions of Jews and Christians subjected to Islamic rule. The word "dhimmitude" comes from dhimmi, an Arabic word meaning "protected". Dhimmi was the name applied by the Arab-Muslim conquerors to indigenous non-Muslim populations who surrendered by a treaty (dhimma) to Muslim domination. Islamic conquests expanded over vast territories in Africa, Europe and Asia, for over a millennium (638-1683). The Muslim empire incorporated numerous varied peoples which had their own religion, culture, language and civilization. For centuries, these indigenous, pre-Islamic peoples constituted the great majority of the population of the Islamic lands. Although these populations differed, they were ruled by the same type of laws, based on the shari'a. This similarity, which includes also regional variations, has created a uniform civilization developed throughout the centuries by all non-Muslim indigenous people, who were vanquished by a jihad-war and governed by shari'a law. It is this civilization which is called dhimmitude. It is characterized by the different strategies developed by each dhimmi group to survive as non-Muslim entity in their Islamized countries. Dhimmitude is not exclusively concerned with Muslim history and civilization. Rather it investigates the history of those non-Muslim peoples conquered and colonized by jihad. Dhimmitude encompasses the relationship of Muslims and non-Muslims at the theological, social, political and economical levels. It also incorporates the relationship between the numerous ethno-religious dhimmi groups and the type of mentality that they have developed out of their particular historical condition which lasted for centuries, even in some Muslim countries, till today. Dhimmitude is an entire integrated system, based on Islamic theology. It cannot be judged from the circumstantial position of any one community, at a given time and in a given place. Dhimmitude must be appraised according to its laws and customs, irrespectively of circumstances and political contingencies. For books by Bat Ye'or, see www.dhimmi.org If you can logically dispute this with historic sources then I am very open- darn need to write two papers so back later!! 
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 01:52
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How about "Most terrorist groups that goes around killing innocent western women and children tend to be Muslim"? ------------- |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 02:09
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The titles here mean nothing to me!! It is the exchange of ideas and thoughts across the globe, even if we do not agree!! Some poeple have tried to say the Oklahoma bombing was done by domestic terrorist but there was a Middle Eastern Connection also!!
The Third Terrorist : The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing -- by Jayna Davis; Hardcover (Rate 
A book like this does not make me fear or hate Muslims because I know this is a radical fringe-10% to 15% of their population. But, what is the total Muslim population just over a billion??? What is 10-15% of that??? Reasons to fear!!! 
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Posted By: TJK
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 03:08
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Moved ! |
Posted By: Artaxiad
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 10:18
| Also because the Muslims are starting to form a large minority in Western Europe. It is very visible in large cities like Paris and London. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 11:48
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Well, did you ever tried to find out the reason of their attacks? Maybe some western "barbarians" which seem to be "democratic" for all human beings in world media??? When you're talking about women and children murders, you should have a look at all ones, including Muslim women and children victims' numbers if your ideology sees them as "human-beings"... ------------- |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 14:51
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O.K. I'm curious. What are the reasons? As for me, I wouldn't be so irked by Islam if it weren't for the rhetoric spouted by the self righteous and by Islamic apologists. ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 16:40
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I really do not like the question so much but I understand your point.
I can also ask why do some radical groups, in Islam, hate Christians and Jews? I understand some of the anger historically but if you look at www.persecution.org you will see my point. I know the Christains and jews have a dark aspect to their history so please do not side track but in an honest manner answer my question. We have very few Muslims in Eastern Washington but a lot of Protestant and Catholics. I love the beauty of the Catholic Cathedral in Spokane and at Gonzana University. I think a better question would be "why does the west fear the spread of Islam?" I am not saying that there are not people or groups who hate Islam but most non-Muslims do not, they might fear it. If your choice is to pick Islam as your faith then bless you but treating non- Muslims as lesser is wrong in my book. I do not think that all Muslims hold to that but it has been a common theme in history. 
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 17:41
Nothing excuses the killing of innocent women and children (and men, let's not be sexist). I simply don't care about their reason.
I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what you mean. Please rephrase.
Que? I only answered the question what might cause fear/hatred of Muslims, not making some general anti-Muslim statement. The fact that these madmen kill Muslims too is unfortunately easily forgotten when your wife or kid is killed in a terrorist attack. ------------- |
Posted By: Laelius
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 18:32
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Oklahoma was done by Christian fundmentalists |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 18:47
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Have you read the book?
The author is an investigative reporter and she has strong evidence that the bombing had help from Middle Eastern terrorist. Another thing McVey was not a Christain and all the so-called fundementalist I know are very moral and peaceful people, there are fringe groups in all religions. Read the book and then pass judgement!! If you have a different viewpoint then prove it after you read her book!! I have not read the book but I heard her speak on the Roth Show for three hours and her evidence is very compelling. But, I respect your opinion!! |
Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 19:05
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Look every religeon has it's extremists. It's a fact of
life. The major flaw of Relgieon, I happen to be a Catholic, is
that it's founded by man and man is flawed. Stuff that Muslim
Extremeist groups do sucks, but so does the stuff that the KKK does and
other people though. Don't generalize. Personally, I think
Islam is a great religeon, and if I hadn't been born a Catholic, I
would have been a Muslim.. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 20:25
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My answer for this question is NONE OF THE ABOVE Why dont America and the Arab world get along? BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SIMILAIR, extreme, seeing the world in black and white, unabel to make rational policy desisions.... Parts of America are like parts of the Middle East, adn where the constitution not there to protect rights, it is likely certain states would be like a Christian taliban. Reactionaries always have alot in common, and thus they fight each other, a la northern Ireland, Israel and Palestine, and the crusades. Why did WW1 initially have so much popular suport in all countries? Because everyone in all the countires was equally bombastic and stupid! Same goes on with this "cultural struggel" between muslims and christians, they are soo similar they simply must fight, and they see only absolutes. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: white dragon
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 21:22
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interesting theory. it could very well be correct.
i havevery often looked at the major religons of the west(Christianity, Islam, and Judaisim) and thought at how similar they actually are... ------------- Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man. -Francis Cardinal Spellman |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 22:12
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not only that but people are often mislead by scholars classifying Islam as an eastern religion, it is not , it is absolutist, intolernat and exclusionary, just like judaisim and christianity ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 01-Mar-2005 at 23:41
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Parts of America are like parts of the Middle East, and where the constitution not there to protect rights, it is likely certain states would be like a Christian taliban.
I wonder if that starts starts with a big U... 
I have heard stories about that state and the control by a certain religion, mainly in small towns. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 02:00
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lol, you hit the nail on the head there! Though I wouldnt call Mrmons Christians....they are ...soemthing else Im not sure what exactly ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 03:57
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In my opinion there is nothing wrong with terrorism. It's just one way to wage war. And in war there are no rules (read Clausewits and you will understand what I mean). Terrorists kill innocent civilians but so do the US Air force bombers. Finnish army guerilla forces are trained to use similar tactics to many terrorists. Terrorism is just a sort of a guerillawar. War is always horrible. Women and children will die in every war. If we think the US war against terrorism: Few thousand civilians have been killed by terrorists, tens of thousands of Iraqian civilians died in US bombings. Totally innocent civilians. Only reason because we are afraid of muslims is our own arrogance and ignorance of what happens around us. |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 05:39
No one is generalizing(if you want me to generalize, I'd say that most Muslims are as most people, they just want to live in peace and make more people). I certainly was not saying Muslims are all terrorists, just that the loud few were. The good deeds of thousands may easily be destroyed by the atrocities of a few, from the PR point of view. And face it, how many Buddhist or Hindu terrorist groups are around?
I hope you are kidding. In any way you're dead wrong on all accounts, I doubt you have read Clausewitz and there are rules in war (ever heard of Genevé?). Terrorism is directed towards civilians, to kill innocents and create fear, and is the most cowardly of acts (the last was an opinion). Do you think the Beslan attack was ok? Say what you want, but the US bombers aim for military targets to take away the enemy ability to wage a war, and Gulf War II was the cleanest war ever in terms of cilivians killed and civilian infrastructure damages (the legality of the war is another thing, but also a completely different topic, so I'll leave it). The Finnish jäger tactics you are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with terrorism, targeting vital military equipment behind enemy lines has as much to do with terrorism as toilets has to do with salmon. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 06:05
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No one really cares about rules in war. Say me a war where Geneve pact has been honoured? Fear is strong weapon and used correctly can win wars. It really doesn't matter are you killed by enemy aircraft meant to destroy facility or suicide bomber, you are dead! Of course terrorism is cowardly but it's effective and that's all that matters in war. War is never fair and you are childish if you think that there is such things as "right" or "wrong" in war. War is always wrong but if it happens then forget morality. Terrorism is war of the weak versus strong. Poor terrorists can't buy tanks so they have to improvise. Using "dirty tricks" to achieve something is ok for me. Another thing is mindless killing without purpose. And what comes to Finnish jägers, Finnish guerillas ("sissis") are not same troops. Of course there is nowhere mentioning about attacking civilians but what are those "soft targets on enemy country" that can be attacked? |
Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 06:15
Many recent ones actually. The US has certainly honoured it, to a very large extent.
Yeah, ethics are so boring, let's go back to the Stone Age.
"Improvise" means killing innocent children? If they can blow up an office building they sure can find military targets too. Did the Resistance during WWII target innocent German civilians? Did the Finnish resort to terrorism in the Winter War?
Soft targets include military personell, depots, power supplies and generally non-armoured equipment. Say, where do you get the idea that this word mean terrorism from? The reason I thought you meant the jägers is that most Scandinavian jägers are guerilla units. |
Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 07:22
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Thanks. Very well put. But this is the problem of so called democracies of western countries. They are ruled, derived and manipulated by media.
"Killing innocent western women and children". What kind of mentality is this? What Muslim terrorists killed any Europeans? or the problem is between Arab Muslims and America / Israel? How can you distort the facts? Did you became so blind that you could not even see that "Muslim terrorism" has come to agenda after cold war and after September the 11th. If there is a problem in Islam as you have put the issue so what about during and before cold war? It seems like Americans and Israelis would become successful in distorting the target. This is a clear propaganda. They are trying to find allies to themselves and they have successfully put the issue as "western Christianity against Islam". This will be also a justification for further attacks to Syria and Iran. Sorry but if Europeans are so blind there is nothing to say more. By creating a tension Americans are also playing with internal social balances of some countries such as France containing high number of Muslims. (Just remind the American reactions to France about Iraq issue. So that it would be easy to take them in the same line with American and Israel politics). Dear Styborn most Swedish people were supporting PKK terrorists in Turkey who were killing innocent Turkish villagers including children and women. You were calling them "freedom fighters". What happened to you? You have clearly double standards. I hope you can save yourself from Nazi like Swedish state propaganda mechanism. I am repeating my question. What Muslim terrorists killed Europeans?
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Posted By: Styrbiorn
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 08:12
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You misunderstood. Did you read the following posts? If so you should have noticed I said it as an answer of the topic question. Whether or not it is a real threat or not is completely irrelevant in that regard.
What people see is terrorist attacks in Israel, the US, Indonesia, Russia, the list goes on, commited by Muslims. Whether the reason is political or religious is lost, especially if the terrorists ramble about god while doing it. It is easier to see the non-religious reason behind such crimes if they are commited by people of the same religion. Like IRA for example, Christians will know that not all Christians are like that, because well, they're christians themselves. But when everything you here about Muslims on the news is yet another bombing, your mind will not be as objective. We're talking perception here, not whether this religion is better than another. Education and understanding will prevent I suppose (and turkey's inclusion in the EU will help too, at least in the long run). I'm not saying terrorist acts are THE reason of making people dislike Muslims, I'm saying it isn't good for Muslim PR.
I never said anything the like, and whether or not they have does not support or contradict what I said. But just for the record, Russians have often been hit, and the (Al Qaida-supported) bombings on Bali a few years ago were targeted at tourists, or "infidel westerners", mostly Europeans and Australians. And many people in Europe regard themselves as "Western" as "European" anyway.
I don't know what the Turkish media feeds you with but a majority of the Swedes probably doesn't even know what PKK is/was. No one here called them freedom fighters either - the normal designation in the media was "guerilla" or "terrorist group", and they didn't have any support whatsoever (I'd expect some fringe commie group to support them though, but I wouldn't count that). The last sentence, well... What "Nazi-like propaganda mechanism" are you talking about, seeing that the government doesn't control a single communication line to the public? Swedish media is internationally regarded as free and objective.
Please elaborate. How are they ruled by the media? Free media is known as the Third Power because of its influence on public opinion and use as a superivising and reporting source, but since this is a common denominator of all societies - including Turkey - (with exceptions being where its banned or statecontrolled, where it's merely a tentacle of the ruling class), I don't see why bring it up. Further they don't have any direct control either, they might be able to cause havoc in the political lines, bringing forth scandals and abuse of power, but I'd hardly call that a bad thing. |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 09:04
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Ever since the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, moslem freedom fighters have been active in repressed areas of the world. They have tried to preserve an identity and freedom of religion (Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kossovo). With lack of western attention to their quest, and ignorance of the west's own initiative to demonize anything foreign, such moslem freedom fighters turned into a mechanism for not only self perpetuation but for asserting rights in a way that leads to clashes with other cultures. When taken too far, its easy for the demented ones' to propagate terrorism to promote such causes. Terrorism now has taken a form of dispicable behavior that pollutes any peace loving peoples and peaceful motives for moral citizenship in the larger community of man. Terrorism is a disease of poverty, ideation, corruptive power, oppression and megalomania. Certainly the focus is, deservedly, on the wrongfull behaviors and corrupt ideologies of "moslem" terrorism. Yet one can also look at what fuels terrorism of this kind. Perhaps it's the usurption of culture, forcefull bullying of ideology, and fundamentalism of an empirialistic agenda that wants to turn a blind eye to the needs of the world community at large. In other words, if you interfere with Corporate "____" you will be punished. If you don't support the party line from your government's policies, than your a terrorist. Historical animosities and political battles should be taken for just that. They have very little to do with religion. Only the ignorant will be persuaded to fall under the wishes of terrorists'. Terrorist's causes are not of a relligious nature. They are a diseased form of asserting one's beliefs at the lack of regard for the rights of others. Terrorism is played out by fringe parties and by governmental policies.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 11:06
You're curious? Did you ever try to read some newspaper or watch news??? I accept that killing inoocent people have no excuse, but as everyone see United States and England are murdering innocent Muslims, including defenceless babies and women sleeping in their houses withot any cure for their illness because of the ambargos, and people who try to take somekind of shelter by sleeping near mosques... Yeah man... If you had all your family killed by a violent invader soldier, your brothers by ignorant bombardement, and their families because of the lack of medicine, believe me, you would want to erase that nation from earth... ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 11:19
I totally accept that there is no excuse for killing innocent people, but the USA and other westerns cant realize that I think... Also I meant USA by "western barbarians" who is shown as democratic for mankind, but never cares about these things at all... Just look at all these violence in middle east and afghanistan... And please, some emphaty... You're saying when your kids and wife are killed by a terrorist, but do the American soldiers in Iraq or Afghantistan have any difference with these people??? Well, at least the terrorists have somekind of reason... ( I dont mean they are right, I mean USA kills innocent people for senseless ideology, but these "terrorists" are trying to protect their country from invaders who killed their families! ) ------------- |
Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 11:21
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I have read but I have misunderstood. Sorry about it... In fact I was very surprised since I was not expecting something like this from you..... I thought that Swedish media was writing something like this. |
Posted By: white dragon
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 13:05
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"Parts of America are like parts of the Middle East, and where the constitution not there to protect rights, it is likely certain states would be like a Christian taliban.
I wonder if that starts starts with a big U... I have heard stories about that state and the control by a certain religion, mainly in small towns." well those stories you heard are wrong. dead wrong. the mormon church doesn't control the people. it advises them on what they should do, it doesn't tell them that they must do it. its what we call free agency, one of the doctrines of the mormon church. "lol, you hit the nail on the head there! Though I wouldnt call Mrmons Christians....they are ...soemthing else Im not sure what exactly" no, i would call them chirstians. why don't you think that they arn't? WE believe that christ is the messiah and that he atoned for our sins with his death. that is the only requirement to actually be a christian. ------------- Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man. -Francis Cardinal Spellman |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 13:39
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In America one of the most sacred rights is the freedom of religion and free speech. If a Muslim converts to another religion it is their right in the U.S. and should be around the world. If a Christian, Hindu or Jew becomes a Muslim it is their right to choose. It is sad that a few do not see it this way. My ancestors came here for the freedom and of religion and it is something we should fight for, even though I choose not to join a particular religious view. This is not an attack on Muslim but incidents like this does affect the international attitudes towards Islam, especially in the west.
Copts fear Christian conversion sparked unsolved murders More details on the Armanious case from Maria Sliwa in WorldNetDaily: Family members who viewed the bodies say they suspect the brutal slayings were a warning not to proselytize to Muslims. They say that the body of Sylvia Armanious was clearly the most viciously attacked in the killings, causing them to wonder if it was because she was too vocal in sharing her faith. "Sylvia talked about Jesus to everyone," her uncle Ayman Garas said. "She was extremely religious." On Jan. 14, the bodies of Amal Garas, 37, her husband, Hossam Armanious, 47, and their daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found in their home bound and gagged, with puncture wounds to their throats. The unsolved murders were thrust into the spotlight again earlier this month, when the relatives of the victims went to Washington, D.C., to meet with lawmakers and hold a press conference on their concerns about the case. "We aren't looking for trouble, we are just looking for the facts," Emil Garas, an uncle of one of the victims, said.... A number of Sylvia's friends, who attend the Mid East Evangelical church, say a problem ensued after Sylvia befriended the Muslim daughter of a Halal butcher she encouraged to convert to Christianity. They say that they fear Sylvia's Christian influence on this girl may have provoked the harsh retribution that followed.... According to information obtained by Robert Spencer, the director of Jihad Watch, from sources close to the murders, the Halal butcher had planned the killing for months and several of his accomplices are still in the country. Spencer says police are investigating these allegations. http://www.jihadwatch.org/ 
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Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 13:47
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------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 13:55
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Think what? You didn't finish what you were writing.
They do care. It just isn't that easy to make things move forward without someone getting hurt.
As a matter of fact, there is a very big difference. The soldiers don't target civilians. Terrorists do. Soldiers go for the man with the gun. Terrorists don't. Soldiers act violently towards a country that has declared war on them. Terrorists just don't care.
------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 14:57
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"Think what? You didn't finish what you were writing." I meant I think USA and other westerners cant realize this... "They do care. It just isn't that easy to make things move forward without someone getting hurt." They do care? Yeah, these million dollars worth perfect planes, sheltering camps targeted smart missles, ignorant US soldiers killing innocent people on purpose and torturing Iragi people in military camps (opposite behavior for Genoa Congress and HUMANITY), and repeating mean sentences like "crusades" really show how much they care... "Yeah you're absolutely right. Those Taliban people were running a fine show before those pesky Americans went and ruined everything" I didnt say anything about the past reggimes. But creating bigger chaoses doesnt end the violence of the existing regime at all. Just look at the situation once. The taliban regyme was torturing the people, and by bombing the victims, US ended all the pain, didnt they?! Bad logic... "I wonder if you have any empathy. Let's say that a Muslim nation attacks a non-muslim nation and occupies it. Would you be out in the streets protesting? Or would you be cheering?" What about being a Muslim or not? You show your religious differing by this sentence. You dont have to be a Muslim to be a human. My ideas are for every religious group without differing. Because I dont judge people according to their religion. But If such thing happens (a Muslim country invades a non-Muslim country) it depends of which country is it and which side is right in the war... "As a matter of fact, there is a very big difference. The soldiers don't target civilians. Terrorists do. Soldiers go for the man with the gun. Terrorists don't. Soldiers act violently towards a country that has declared war on them. Terrorists just don't care." No, the soldiers do target civilians. One of the newest things I watched on news about this Iraq issue was that an american soldier killed a defenceless and innocent man in front of a mosque where he was trying to take shelter to protect his daughter from american fire. They shot him because he couldnt communicate with them (as they say). Also you cant judge hoal population of a country such as Iraq as enemy only with the behavior of a dictator who tortures his country... "It's not a senseless ideology. Freedom of speech, worship, etc., etc. is worth dying and killing for. And what terrorists are you talking about? Oh yeah, the Curds in Turkey, right? " Yeah, freedom of speech... Didnt USA citizens have freedom of speech before invading Iraq? If you mean freedom for Iraqi citizens, you must realize that by collecting a minority of ethnic groups population in another majority ethnic groups city on purpose to avoid their political freedoms and form an independent puppet state for your goods dont seem to be for creating political equality and freedom at all... About the Kurd issue... Turks didnt kill Kurds' families. This is even not declared by Kurd terrorist groups. Their wish is to build an independent country in Turkish bordered lands, accepted by all nations in Lausanne Agreement. So their purpose is not to protect the country that feeds them and they belong. Their purpose is to divide that country. So this illegal action can be compared with the American operation, which has the same purpose, to seperate countries... ------------- |
Posted By: Le Renard
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 20:13
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lol, you hit the nail on the head there! Though I wouldnt call Mrmons Christians....they are ...soemthing else Im not sure what exactly I disagree with you on that one. Mormons believe in Christ as the savior and redeemer of the world, just like all other Christains. |
I agree with white dragon!Posted By: Le Renard
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 20:17
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The mormon church teaches us to live a certian way, but we have Free Agency as White Dragon has stated. |
We are not forced to do anything. We have consequenses for our actions, but we have our own choices. The church does not rule with an iron fist. Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 02-Mar-2005 at 21:40
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And actually Utah was not my original example of a potential christian taliban in America, I was thinking more the deep south and Kansas. I just wanted to make a Utah crack
tell me do you actually believe the native americans are the lsot tribes of Israel? lol ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Capt. Lubber
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 00:45
Yes... So a palestinian is protecting his country by blowing up as many civilian israelites on a bus as possible? ------------- Loke, Attila, the grete conqueror, Deyde in his sleep, with shame and dishonour, Bleedinge ay at the nose in dronkenesse, A captayin shoulde live in sobrenesse |
Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 01:34
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Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the Trinity. Jesus is not only the messiah but the word made flesh, literally God on earth. There is no separation of God the father from God the son in traditional Christianity. (Nestorians, aren't considered "real" christians for this purpose.) If there is a separation than you worship multiple gods and not the "one true God." No offense to you guys, some of my friends are mormons, but thats the rational for it. BTW, if I asked for a a Book of Mormon, and then asked to be left alone, would I still get people calling me and ringing my doorbell, because I've always been interested in what's in there. Also, how did you guys find the South Park Mormon episode? I thought that the Catholic one was extremely hilarious, with the consulting of the Giant Spider. ------------- Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative. Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 02:48
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South Park is my holy book, when ever I want to know something about life, Im sure I can find s South Park episode that explains it ..its so much more intelligent than it ever gets credit for. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: white dragon
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:05
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"BTW, if I asked for a a Book of Mormon, and then asked to be left alone, would I still get people calling me and ringing my doorbell, because I've always been interested in what's in there."
you would probably still have people coming to the door. you see, what we do is we have some area set up as an area for a single mission area, the missionaries are transfered around from area to area, and places within the original area. some its usually different people every couple of months. also they are supposed to go around "tracking" for some time each week. tracking is where they walk around in their little subdivisions of the area they are in and knock on doors and see if there is anyone they can give a short lesson to and possibly get an appointment for later to see if they can teach them more. if you need some clarificion(likely you do, that probably wasn't to clear there heh) i might be able to get one of my leaders in to post sometime. "Also, how did you guys find the South Park Mormon episode? I thought that the Catholic one was extremely hilarious, with the consulting of the Giant Spider. " i don't watch too much tv in general, even less of south park, maybe 1 episode a year, maybe. and i haven't seen that one. "South Park is my holy book, when ever I want to know something about life, Im sure I can find s South Park episode that explains it ..its so much more intelligent than it ever gets credit for." ------------- Pray as if everything depended upon God and work as if everything depended upon man. -Francis Cardinal Spellman |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:53
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How did Mormons get on a Muslim topic?
They do believe in a trinity but it is not the same as the Christian trinity!! We have lots of Mormons in this area!! Polygamy is the one thing they would have in common with Muslims. I sure if it was not for the government they would still have multiple wives.
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Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 13:56
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All I have to say is: BOSH! The only situation I see as being serious was the Abu Gharib prison abuse, and that has already been corrected. As for the use of the word 'crusade', it has a completely different meaning in the west than it does in Arab countries. Saying crusade to an aran audience is just stupid, not mean (and I don't think Bush was speaking to an arab audience when he said that word). I'm wondering, what does the word 'Jihad' mean to you? Throughout history, soldiers, warriors, whoever held a weapon, have been usually rapacious brutes. American soldiers are amongst those who are the least like that at all.
Show your sources. You should also take into account when one is fighting terrorists that don't wear uniforms, the slightest mistake will have the direst consequences. Think about it, your fighting an enemy that blends in with the populace. What would you do? Would you behave better?
I mentioned the Kurds because you wrote: Well, at least the terrorists have somekind of reason... ( I dont mean they are right, I mean USA kills innocent people for senseless ideology, but these "terrorists" are trying to protect their country from invaders who killed their families! ) In other words, you are implying that the dimwits bombing their Iraqi countrymen were defending their families and nation from invaders. By that logic, shouldn't the same be said about the Kurds? ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Le Renard
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 17:59
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We do believe in a trintiy like you said. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all seperate being. We also believe that God the Father and Jesus are flesh and bone like man. Well you are kind of correct on the polygamy. Here is our stance To Whom It May Concern: http://scriptures.lds.org/od/1 |
Posted By: Le Renard
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:02
Well we are the not traditional Christian religion |
Posted By: Kalevipoeg
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:14
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To the question at hand, why does the west hate muslims? Well, the first thing that pops into my mind is propaganda and secondly more so, propaganda. Even the Iraq War has been used as propaganda material against muslims. Showing litle or none American crimes until it truly comes out as Abu Gharib did. I bet a journalist would not be let so kindly enter an area, where US marines have just blown up a civilian car with a family inside going to the market. As one of my favourite songs at the moment says: "Bombs to set the people free, blood to feed the dollar tree flags for coffins on the screen, oil for the machine Army of liberation, gunpoint indoctrination the fires of sedition Fulfill the prophecy". by Lamb of God. "now you've got something to die for" May sound radical, but the truth is the truth. The Americans are creating hate against amongst the muslim radicals and are breeding their own enemies. I can't see why it would be wrong to go kill a GI with a kevlar hat when one of his "Smart weapons" just blew up my family and half of my relatives. ------------- There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge... |
Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 18:43
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Ignorance is the mother of all daring. This question is rude, poorly-formed; in a word, stupid. ------------- |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 00:05
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We should move the Mormon question to the Americas section since it started in America and it is part of our pioneer history.
I would mention that the definition of Trinity is not the same to a Prostestant,a Catholic or an Orthodox as it is to a Mormon. For me it does not matter since I tend to believe in God but I hate dogma and doctrine. Meet you in the Americas section and keep this one focused on the question! what do you think moderators??? My old hiking partner tried to convert me many times but no success. He moved to Salt Lake City to find a pride, I hope he found someone right for him!!
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Posted By: Jalisco Lancer
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 11:21
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The Americas,Asia forum is dedicated to the ancient cultures. I believe that the Mormons issue can be discussed in here.
Regards |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 15:12
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We do believe in a trintiy like you said. We believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are all seperate being. We also believe that God the Father and Jesus are flesh and bone like man. On a Islamic site this is fuel for a big debate!! Does God also have a human form- flesh and blood? A big heresy for the mainstream churches!! If the Americas site is only for anceint history then where do I post topics about the Coeur d' Alene Indians in the 1800s'??? |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 13:05
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moving away from the Mormon topic
Islam - religion of Peace!! Help me to understand your interpretation of this verse! And prepare against them all you can of power, including steeds of war to terrorise the enemies of Allah and others besides whom you may not know, but Allah does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allah shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly." [Quran 8:60] Annual Meeting of the Coalition Slaves Liberated in Sudan Eurabia: New Book by Bat Ye'or is Published Links to Members and Friends News & Commentary Archives About Dhimmitude http://www.jihadwatch.org/ Dhimmi is the status given to Jews and Christians under Islam. Throughout history, these religious minorities in Muslim lands have been opressed and victimized. Ending the culture of dhimmitude is a prerequistite for achieving peace and justice for all people in the Islamic world. http://www.dhimmi.com/ 
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 16:44
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Posted By: Jorsalfar
Date Posted: 05-Mar-2005 at 17:02
| the muslims kill westerners in europe.Look at what happened to the moviemaker in Holland. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 00:20
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Get real!!!!
I realize that Islam has made major contributions in history and it saved many of the classical texts but that does not discount the second class citizen treatment that non-believers recieve. I have read enough Byzantine to Ottoman history to know better. I have also read part of the Koran but of course I cannot read Arabic so I cannot understand it. Words do have meaning!! I am not singling out the Muslims because both the Jews and Christains have had their dark side. You still did not interpret that verse for me!! I do take in consideration that most (85-90%) do not view non-believers in that manner. One question??? In America, why are the peaceful majority so quiet? Why aren't they protesting the actions of the radicals? I just want to know!! |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 03:05
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they are all the same religion anyway, in the grand scheme of everything, Christianity, Judaisim, Islam....all desert cults that have spread across the world because of the martial abilities of those who believe in it. ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 06:44
It's not that surprising if you know how he used to behave against muslims. furthermore I urge everyone to calm down a little ------------- |
Posted By: Jorsalfar
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 06:49
| wasnt it because of some movie he made? |
Posted By: Alparslan
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 08:08
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Are you accusing of them by not inventing democracy 1500 years ego? You cannot judge people, religions by taking today's values into consideration. In fact Islam and Quran was like a revolution for its time. But Muslims could not interpret Quran according to changing conditions they had become more conservatives and stuck into "simple words" of Quran but they could not think more about the real essence of Islam, Quran and more generally religion. Can we say that Islam see others as second class citizen? No. Even the concept of citizen is a new term. Were villagers in Europe has been treaten as equal citizens by land lords and papacy? Papacy has abused poor people during years by using his power of Christianity. Scientists were facing terrible results since they were saying that world is not flat but spherical. Why? Since Christianity was saying the contrary. After more relax interpretation of Christianity science and democracy could find a way to develop. This was protestan movement. That is why protestant countries of the north has developed much earlier than Catolic ones. I also remind you that Crusaders of papacy who were acting in the name of Christianity has deserted Ortodox settlements, forced them change their beliefs, massacred all Muslims and Jews of Jarusalem...etc. On the other hand Ottomans have respected their religion, saved Jews from Spain so that there are Safarad Jews alive today. Ottomans collected extra taxes from non-Muslims, they did not accept Christians and Jews in state affaires until 19th century. Do you want to go to war to die as being a Muslim Turk or deal with trade or other occupation as being a Christian or Jews? |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 13:11
Nothing you say is new to me! I have studied the history of the region. I have to get back to my school project but I would like to respectfully talk some more about this as time allows. If I go into anymore detail I would like to have sources to support my argument. I do have a history degree so I understand historic methodology and sources. You sound like someone I can respect. There are not many Muslims in this area but I am commited to treat them with respect or any stranger I meet. I also have to respond to the Mormons first. We have lots and lots of Mormons here and they even have a Temple in Spokane, the nearby city. Some consider them a cult-- I do not care but I like their moral values!! |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 14:02
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Are you accusing of them by not inventing democracy 1500 years ego?
Please explain this comment Alparslan? As far as I know it was the Greek in the classical period who first practiced democracy as an institution. Later, the Magna carta and Roman law had a major influence on American democracy. The early Germanic tribes had a form of democracy. Historically when I look at the history of islam, the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics societies all I see is rule by an emperor, a king or a Sultan, with few rights for the common man. In Orthodoxy the Emperor was God's representative on Earth, this often led to corruption. Sort of like the Kings of Israel- some kings were good and some evil!! I do not single out Islam because you find a dark side to all faiths!! 
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Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 15:26
| Eaglecap. If you are a student of history and religion, then please explain how the trinity came about. The Jews in history were not taught the trinity. It is a christian creation after Christ. But I won't give you my answers yet. I only ask of your knowledge. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 06-Mar-2005 at 15:56
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I am not a Christain so I think you would have to ask a Mormon, an Orthodox or a born agin Christian about this view. I believe in one God but I don't get involved in dogma or doctrinal differences.
If you would like I can contact a Christian friend who could answer this one but I really do not care about this issue. I do think the Mormon position is interesting because they believe that God the Father and Jesus have flesh and blood form as well as spiritual- heresy to the mainstream churches. There are some Christians sects who do not believe in the Trinity. For the fun of it, I use to tune into some black preacher in the south. He would preach about how all the Christains who believe in the Trinity are, "GOING TO HELL BROTHER' PRAZZZZE JESUS!! sorry about the sarcasm!
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 11:58
I am really shocked how passionate you can defend the situation of Iraq invasion and all these things. As everyone see, maybe not seen from Europe or USA, but believe it, we can understand what is happening out there, 500 km away from the city I live, there are violence, ignorancy, sin and emperialism in invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and other American-tortured countries. They are bombing houses and shelter camps, they are killing innocent civilians in purpose, violently and in front of the world's eyes... Noone can deny it... There are lots of secret photos which are not led by USA to be published anymore, and lots of other reports from Iraq and hostage camps, that show how american torture weaponless husbands, by urinating on him, beating him, making him dance with women clothes and then shotting him from head, in front of his wife and children. This is only an example of a million. Everyday, a lot of violence like this is happening in Iraq, but ignored by civilized European nations who called us barbarians since ancient times...Well, we see their developed humanity and civilization... The UN can stop Iraq from invading Kuwait, and other countries invading each other. Because these actions are against some nations' goods. But why doesnt it even use any single sanction while Israel is surrounding Jarusalem, which has its name from an old Arabic god, with a stone wall, destroying thousands of poor people's houses, dividing families, and denying international laws? Why can UNESCO help needing children everywhere except Bosnia??? Where are those artificial international laws of the westerners when the situation is against those "masked barbarians"? Also the ones who say we are too civilisized to deny main human rights anymore, are americans. Do you compare their barbariance with the old armies'? Well, that is quite possible... How can you define the current situation of Iraq as an enemy of USA? Why are they an enemy? Saddam was an enemy, not Iraqis who even dont have medicine for surviving. USA doesnt have the right to invade and torture Iraq, and nothing can change it. Also I wasnt saying that Iraqis who are bombing other Iraqi cvilians had a reason. But I mean, who caused this chaos? Certainly, America. Their existance is the main problem in Iraq... ------------- |
Posted By: lastbout
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 17:21
To see uncivilized barbaric nations, we need not look further than Islamic based governments such as Iran. Stoning people to death is Quite barbaric. |
Posted By: Emile Boutros
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 20:08
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It is barbaric to allow people to die and to support fascists ala Saddam Hussien. It is barbaric to chop up women's throats after they feed children of your nation and it is barbaric to call others barbaric when your society executes children and kills babies without remorse. The world is full of barbarians and Iran is not uncivilized or barbaric if you ask me. No more than the US with it's export of torutre or gasing young criminals. The only difference is that the US dresses itself better and Iran is out in the open about it. Islamism is a barbaric movement and so are most militant ideologies.
"Eaglecap. If you are a student of history and religion, then please explain how the trinity came about. The Jews in history were not taught the trinity. It is a christian creation after Christ. But I won't give you my answers yet. I only ask of your knowledge. " This is because Jesus is God and the Spirit is also of God. There was a meeting of the churches way back when to decide if it was separate or unitary. Most agree that it is one in three forms. Like water has different phases of matter. I don't know where it came from though; I am not particularly religious (there is no Greek Church where I am and I didnt go when there were churches near me except when I was little). If you google it you can probably find something. |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2005 at 21:04
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Mr. Boutros states: This is because Jesus is God and the Spirit is also of God. There was a meeting of the churches way back when to decide if it was separate or unitary. Most agree that it is one in three forms. Like water has different phases of matter. I don't know where it came from though; I am not particularly religious (there is no Greek Church where I am and I didnt go when there were churches near me except when I was little). If you google it you can probably find something. ____________________________________________________________ _______ You can belive anything you want. Yet to make such a blatant statement reflects on your difinitive understanding or lack of understanding the history of Jesus and/or religious texts. Emporer Constantine ordered the varied churches throughout his empire, 300 plus years after the death of Jesus, to canonize the bible (many books) as being the sole and definitive word on who Jesus was. Unfortunately, thats how the accepted version of Christianity became "gospel" truth. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2005 at 13:13
I partly agree. The current government of Iran cannot be defined such "humalitarian". But at least they dont try to show themselves different from what they really are... ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2005 at 13:30
Both of the current governments of America and Iran are "barbarians". But I didnt understand what do you mean by saying " it is barbaric to call others barbaric when your society executes children and kills babies without remorse."If you mean our government does such things, you should know that even the capital punishment doesnt exist in our laws since our government begs Europe to be accepted in their "elite" club. Also as I live in southern Turkey, very close to "Tarsus", I am familiar with the St. Paulus issue. He lived in Tarsus and researched deeply the ancient eastern (mostly Egyptian) mytology. He was kinda missioner who taught people Christianity, but with his own ideology. There is a "secret history" that tells St. Paulus is originally "Hebrew" and researched the belief of trinity from the ancient cult of "Sirius and Osiris". It was kind of a punishment to Christians by Jews of Hebrew. ------------- |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 01:03
Seko- My background is history and not liguistics or theology but I know someone who could challenge you on this so I could arrange this if he is willing. What is your educational background and what or who are your sources for this???? His wife is due soon so he may not but I can ask. Although, I hate asking because I will end of telling him to quit preaching his mythology to me but I may agree on some of your points. He is of one those radical Jesus freaks. I know that Emperor Constantine was responsible for cannonizing the Bible but I would have to brush up on this aspect of Byzantine history. Best regards |
/P]
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 15-Mar-2005 at 21:05
| Hello eaglecap. I'm just an old history buff that used to spend time in the library reading most anything pertaining to history instead of my then major in psychology. I studied religion out of pure interest also. Don't need credits to learn stuff. It's there for the taking. Not much interest in debating with a radical anything. People can learn the history of Jesus and the Christian religion apart from Christian dogma when it feels right for 'em. It's also there for the taking. One thing I learned about myself though is to throw any preconcieved ideas out the window, when studying material that we were brainwashed to accept and not to question. An open mind does wonders for the soul. I like your gusto. Keep it up! Seems like you appreciate the detailed meainings of things. |
Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2005 at 19:04
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Why do we cringe when we hear the words Jihad or Holy War?
I want to believe that most Muslims are peaceful but history records evil on all sides. "The conquest of Syria" "When abu-Bakr was done the case of those who apostatized, he saw fit to direct his troops against Syria. To this effet he wrote to the people of Makkah at-Taif, aly Yaman, and all the Arabs in Najd and al- Heijaz calling them for a "Holy War" and arousing their desire in it and in the obtainable booty from the Greeks. Accordingly, people, including those actuated by Greed as well as those by the hope of divine remuuneration, hastened to abu-Bakr from all quarters and flocked to al Madinah." (page 343) source: "Readings in medieval Historiography; Muslim Historiography" by Speros Vyronis jr 1968 |
Posted By: Exarchus
Date Posted: 17-Apr-2005 at 03:49
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Well, having the muslim right next to your house for centuries. And
them attacking you, ransacking cities and villages every years,
certainly doesn't help is liking your neightbours. That's what the Southern French had to deal with for quiet some times. If you don't trust the violence of the fights, just check the impressive defenses the Counts of Toulouse built, like the Cathars' castle (who were built much before the Cathars, as a defense against the muslims) or the city of Carcassonne (and imagine most cities were like this in the past here). ------------- Vae victis! |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 20-Apr-2005 at 19:21
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The history of empires, religious or not, is a history full of war, animosity, commerce, peace, and whatever else we could name. It is a history of people. Those very same people also used religious beliefs to actualize their potential. Whether that act of fulfillment is viewed as necessary would be best answered by those who created such history. Unfortunately they are dead. Yet in hindsight we judge. Currently we live in a world of our own agendas and biases. Our history is now. What will we actualize? Personally I like to study the history of religions. I like to check for the origins, the reliability of authorship and how religious movements eventually grew into what they are today. I have found that the way religions are practiced today have deviated from how they were initially taught. I wonder what those founding fathers of religious movements would think if they were to appear before our eyes today. Would they be amzed at religious growth or at its deviations? ------------- |
Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 23-Apr-2005 at 21:46
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I havent read most of the posts so forgive me if im being repetitive. The reason no one really does anything to improve the portrayal of Muslims in the Western world is because just incase we decide to attack one of their nations (Iraq) less people will disapprove. Basically, they want the masses to be ignorant, so they trust their government. Most people that support the war here in the U.S. are completely ignorant of the current situation and the history of the Middle East (there are very educated people that believe in the war, but the ignorant ones are the vast majority, same with the ones that disagree with the war). All they say is "we had to go in before they did something to us". Please, learn why terrorists do what they do. I hate terrorism, but theres a point to it. Terrorism is not a senseless act...just because you dont agree with it doesnt make it a senseless act. The most frustrating thing is when westerners think EVERYONE from the Middle East is a Muslim Arab. They dont even know the difference between an Arab and a Persian. A lot of people think anyone with brown skin is "towel-head" or "camel-jockey" or some other derrogatory term that they use here. Its very frustrating trying to explain to people here in the States that there are major differences from different regions and nations. So, i believe that the reason Muslims arent looked upon as an "advanced" people (i wouldnt say hated, thats too extreme, but then again, ive never been to the Central states such as Texas) is because, quite simply, most Americans dont care what happens outside of our 50 states. That is the sad and simple truth. I'm taking a geography class in college right now, and half the people cant even find France on the map. This is college level. I dont even want to imagine how much trouble they would have with the middle east. ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance ÕÕ«Õ¹ Õ„Õ¶Ö Õ¢Õ”ÕµÖ ÕÕ”Õµ Õ„Õ¶ÖÖ |
Posted By: The Canadian Guy
Date Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 12:20
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Holy crap!!! No one should hate Muslims or Americans, or in fact anyone. We should be peaceful, loving, caring to all humans. Sure we had problems in this planet, but it is we as humans should solve these problems. ------------- Hate and anger is the fuel of war, while religion and politics is the foundation of it. |