Altaic Numbers.
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=20553
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 17:58
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Topic: Altaic Numbers.
Posted By: gok_toruk
Subject: Altaic Numbers.
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:53
I've tried to search for same number stems in Japanese, Korean, Mongolian, Tungus - Manchu and Turkic. I had to list Proto - Japanese, Old Japanese, Proto - Korean and Middle Korean as well, since Japanes and Korean add a large number of suffixes to the original stem.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Replies:
Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:54
Proto – Altaic: biuri
English: one
Proto Japanese: pitə
Old Japanese: piyto
Modern Japanese: pitu, ti, hitotsu
Proto Korean: piri (af first; begin)
Middle Korean: piri-s, piri-so
Modern Korean: pir-o-so
Mongolian: büri (each one)
Tungus – Manchu:
Turkic: bir
Notes: Also Turkmen 'pitew' which means 'one; unit'.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:54
Proto – Altaic: p ioke
English: two; pair; half
Proto Japanese: pəka (the other one)
Old Japanese: p(w)oka
Modern Japanese: hoka
Proto Korean: pəki- (next one)
Middle Korean: pəki-
Modern Korean: pəgim
Mongolian: (h)ekire (twins)
Tungus – Manchu:
Turkic: eki, iki
Notes:
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:56
Proto – Altaic: ul-u, il-u
English: three
Proto – Japanese: uru-pu
Old Japanese: urufu
Modern Japanese: uru
Korean:
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu: il-an (three)
Turkic: üch (three); ilü-ng, ülü-ng (third)
Notes: An interesting etymon; the original meaning can be probably reconstructed as "(a group of) three objects, followed by a fourth" (especially in Japanese and Turkic).
The Turkic form represents a vowel assimilation. Old Turkic: ‘ölö-ng’ from Proto – Turkic: ‘ülü-ng’.
Turkic ‘üch’: Turkic frequently reveals a secondary labialization: ‘ür-’/’ül-’ from
‘ir-‘/’il-‘.
Japanese usually adds ‘pa’ (instead of Mongolian, Tungus – Manchu and Turkic ‘qa’) (‘pu’, in this case) to the Altaic vowel endings.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 07:58
Proto – Altaic: toy
English: four
Proto - Japanese: də
Old Japanese: yo
Modern Japanese: yo
Korean:
Mongolian: dör-ben, dü-chin (1 four 2 fourty)
Tungus – Manchu: dügin
Turkic: tört
Notes: In Tungus – Manchu, also ‘de-ki ' (fourty). The stem is the same as Japanese.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:00
Proto – Altaic: t u
English: five
Proto - Japanese: i-tu
Old Japanese: itu
Modern Japanese: i-tsu
Proto - Korean: ta-
Middle Korean: ta-, ta-sas
Modern Korean: ta-sət (tasəs)
Mongolian: ta-bu- (1 five 2 fifty)
Tungus – Manchu: tu-n-ga
Turkic: atə, etə
Notes: In Japanese, initial ‘i-‘ is not quite clear; it is used on its own with the meaning 'fifty', and in ‘i-po’ 'five hundred' (if this is not a contraction from ‘it(u)-pə’.
The Turkic word listed is preserved only in Bulgar Turkic.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:01
Proto – Altaic: nu-, ngu-
English: six
Proto - Japanese: mu-
Old Japanese: mu-
Modern Japanese: mu-
Korean:
Proto - Mongolian: yiragu-ga (1 six 2 sixty)
Tungus – Manchu: nu-ngu-
Turkic:
Notes:
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:02
Proto – Altaic: nadi; ngadi
English: seven
Proto - Japanese: nana
Old Japanese: nana
Modern Japanese: nana
Proto – Korean: nir-kup
Middle Korean: nid-kup
Modern Korean: il-gop
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu: nada-n
Old Turkic: yet(t)i
Notes: Mongolian ‘dal-‘ '7' may suggest Proto - Altaic ‘ladi-‘ (with a development to Mongolian ‘lal-‘ and through assimilation, to ‘dal-‘.
The medial consonant in general behaves rather irregularly: one may suggest an original cluster like ‘-dd-‘ to explain the Turkic reflex.
Also, Koguryo ‘nanən’ 'seven'.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:03
Proto – Altaic: cha, sa
English: eight
Proto - Japanese: da
Old Japanese: ya
Modern Japanese: ya-tsu
Proto – Korean:
Middle Korean:
Modern Korean: yə-t-
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu: ja-kun, ja-p-kun
Turkic: se-kür, se-kir
Notes: one may suggest that Turkic ‘se-‘ here is due to assimilation (‘cha’ --> ‘sha’ --> ‘sa’).
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:05
Proto – Altaic: k eg-
English: nine
Proto - Japanese: kəkənə-
Old Japanese: kokono-
Modern Japanese: kokono-
Korean:
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu: xegün
Turkic:
Notes:
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:08
Proto – Altaic: tiobe, chiobe
English: ten
Proto - Japanese: təwə
Old Japanese: towo
Modern Japanese: to-
Korean:
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu: juba-n
Turkic:
Notes:
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:08
Proto – Altaic: k iura
English: twenty
Japanese:
Korean:
Mongolian: qori
Tungus – Manchu: xorin
Turkic: qir-q (fourty)
Notes: Old Turkic ‘tibirim’/’tibirem’ (related to 2) (modern Turkic ‘yigirimi’) was used to mean ‘twenty’.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:11
Proto – Altaic: ngio
English: thirty
Proto - Japanese: mi (related to 3)
Old Japanese: myi
Modern Japanese: mi
Korean:
Mongolian: gu- (1 three 2 thirty)
Tungus – Manchu:
Turkic: o-tur
Notes: Turkic has got rid of Proto – Altaic ‘ng’ as Turkic words were not allowed to start with nasal.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:12
Proto – Altaic: j(io)ro
English: a big number
Proto - Japanese: dərə- (ten thousand)
Old Japanese: yoru-du
Modern Japanese: yoru-zu
Proto - Korean: jərh (ten)
Middle Korean: jərh
Modern Korean: jəl
Mongolian: ye(r)-sün (nine), yeri-n (ninety)
Tungus – Manchu: jir- (a big number)
Turkic: jur (hundred)
Notes: in Korean, also ‘jərəh’ 'a big quantity, number'.
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:15
Proto – Altaic: namo, ngamo
English: hundred
Proto - Japanese: muamua
Old Japanese: mwomwo
Modern Japanese:
Korean:
Mongolian: ja-gu-n
Tungus – Manchu: nama
Turkic: yom (1 big number or quantity 2 all)
Notes:
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:16
Proto – Altaic: chiumi
English: thousand
Proto - Japanese: ti
Old Japanese: ti
Modern Japanese: chi
Korean: chimin
Mongolian:
Tungus – Manchu:
Turkic: tümen (ten thousands)
Notes: Note the Turkic - Korean parallel. Japanese ‘ti’ reflects a suffixed form (chium(i)-g).
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2007 at 08:18
Proto – Altaic: minga, mingo, mingu
English: a large number; thousand
Japanese:
Korean:
Mongolian: minggan (thousand)
Tungus – Manchu:
Turkic: ming, bing (thousand)
Notes: Perhaps Modern Korean ‘manan’ 'forty' ('big number'?).
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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Aug-2007 at 15:33
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Very interestng, so do you have information on the origins of the modern Turkish numbers that are not clearly of proto-Altaic origin, such as beş?
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