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Turks And Mongols

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ethnic History of Central Asia
Forum Discription: Discussions about the ethnic origins of Central Asian peoples. All topics related to ethnicity should go here.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1938
Printed Date: 28-Mar-2024 at 13:43
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Turks And Mongols
Posted By: HulaguHan
Subject: Turks And Mongols
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 22:32

I always ask myself, how do we differ hundreds of tribes either Turkic or Mongoloid? Aren' t they the same. I have seen many historians (non famous, guys in my university) and people who did not like Mongols just because they were not muslim.

I have seen in Hungary Under the Early Arpads by Kosztolnyik and Ottoman Centuries by Lord Kintoss that Turks and Mongoloids are brother i.e. same nations...

As far as I can see, it was like the discrimination in ancient Greece. Athenians, Spartans, Thebans, Corinthians, Messenians, etc...




Replies:
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 22:58
The way I look at it is that all Turk tribes are the same people when it comes down to it.  The Mongols I see as like cousins in a way.  Though, I think way back in the day Turks and Mongols were basically considered as one people.  But I think other people see it differently.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 23:02
I know this is off the subject, but why isn't the Azeri flag waving in my name?  I thought it should when you pick a country.


Posted By: cattus
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2005 at 23:56
there are some flags that havent been uploaded yet i believe.

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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 10:43
I have  a question related to this original topic.  If there is someone here that is Mongolian they can answer this for me.  These days how is the relationship with the Mongolian government and other Turkish governments?  Also, do the people still consider them selves closely related as they did a long time ago? Any answer is welcome but I prefer to hear from a Mongolians point of view.  Thank you


Posted By: Turk
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 17:40
Originally posted by Feramez

The way I look at it is that all Turk tribes are the same people when it comes down to it. The Mongols I see as like cousins in a way.  Though, I think way back in the day Turks and Mongols were basically considered as one people.  But I think other people see it differently.


All Turkic people are not the same at all...

Turkish Turks have extremely little in common with Azeris. In fact, I don't even consider you Azeris Turkic.

As for the political relationship between Mongolia and Turkey, they'res nothing special about it. Although it is probably infinitely more rewarding than our relations with Azerbaijan




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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 17:53
Yes they are, Turks from Turkey and Turks from Central Asia are the same.  They may have their differences in appearance and dialects, but that comes with mixing with other cultures and nationalities.  Now I remember hearing once before someone telling me that Azeris aren't considered Turks at all, tell me why.  Because I have some Azeri in me and was always taught that they are Turk.


Posted By: Turk
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 19:20
No one with credibility considers Azerbaijan a "Turkish" state except Azeris themselves (some at least). I believe one thing everyone can agree on is that Azeris speak a Turkic language.

Some of this stuff might be harsh, but this is just what I concluded from everything I've read and my own dealings with groups of Azeris.

Azeris were always around before the Turks, developing along with Armenian, Persion, and other east Caucus Mountain people...They, unlike the great majority of Turkic tribes, adopted the Shia religion (this significant in the further increase of differences later on). I still believe whole heartedly that Azeris never had anything ethnically to do with Turkic or nomadic people. Where are your old miniature paintings, scriptures, and ancient games played on horseback or wrestling? I see Uygurs, Uzbeks, Tatars, and Kazakhs having (or had) these sorts of things in common with me, but not Azeris.

Now in the modern era, after being ruled by Russians, then Soviets, for all that time, there are fundamental differences between Azerbaijan and Turkey, to the point where I can comfortably say the only thing we have to do with each other  is linguistic similarity (although I think this was always the only similarity). Islam (and any other belief advocating any type of morals for that matter) is dead, and athiest/materialistic communist virtues are still very much the norm.

I have known numerous Turks going to Azerbaijan for business or politics, and they never ever come back with anything good to say. It is a totally different (and poltically/culturally/militarily insignificant) country. From my dealings with big groups of Azeris, their customs and culture are totally different. They have all these things they do that resemble Russian tradition more than Turkic. Nobody takes their shoes off, everyone is stuffing their mouths with pork, they are very loud....What Turk would serve a roasted pig with an apple in it's mouth for dinner?

It's amusing to know that Azerbaijan, being not only defeated but occupied by a country 1 third it's size, sent 100 soldiers to Iraq to help the Americans. Hell, they sold tanks to Armenia while they were at war with them.

Turks and Azeris share none of the same values. All this Turkish and Azeri solidarity non-sense is the result of Azeris trying to bunch themselves up with others who actually HAVE history, culture, and tradition.

Another interesting tidbit, Azeri citizens are not allowed to purchase property in Turkey. The only reason the Turkish government even bothers dealing with Azerbaijan is because of its gas / oil potential.

In essence, I believe Azeris have more to do with Armenians and Russians than Turkic people (note - no jab at Armenians or Russians), and South Azeris have more to do with Iranis than Turkic people. We have more differences than similarities, and our cultures conflict more than they agree. Azeris were always around before the Turks came, and seem to be more like an off-shoot of some Persian peoples than anything else.

Turks have much more in common even today with Tatars, Kazaks, Uzbeks, and especially Uygurs than Azeris.

Just my opinion, Azeris are not and never were Turks. They are not successors to the Turkic nomads of old.

If you want to read something more credible than my rant here, go to http://www.iranchamber.com/people/language_azeri_people_ pan_turkism.php

It's the Irani take on the issue. Although their section on pan-Turkism is ignorant, read what they say on the origins of Azeris and who they really are.


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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 21:36
Ok well, I do have to say that you make some very good points there, which are mostly true.  But growing up your whole life part Azeri and being told Azeris are part of the Turks, I don't think anyone would change my mind.  But one thing I can argue on is the fact that Turkey's Turks and Central Asia's Turks are the same people, just with some differences. 


Posted By: Chono
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 08:46
Well... we like to differ settled turkics from the nomads. The nomadic turkic people are extremely close to us. Otherwise, we don't have gigantic oil or gas reserves so I guess people wouldn't really bother dealing with us, were not for our peculiar geographic location. So now we get regular visits between turkish and mongolian politicians, turkish restaurants in UB and mongolians studying in police academies in Turkey.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2005 at 10:11
Thank you, Chono.  That's the answer I been waiting for.  I have heard there are Turkish restaurants there, I remember watching a travel show on T.V. and they showed a big turkish restaurant in UlaanBataar(not sure on spelling) with Ataturks face at the entrance.  I'm planning on going there maybe this summer or next winter.  A trip I been wanting to take for a ling time.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 01:31

AT TURK:

1) "No one with credibility considers Azerbaijan a "Turkish" state except Azeris themselves (some at least). I believe one thing everyone can agree on is that Azeris speak a Turkic language."

As someone who has spent time in Turkey and Iran, and who's Grandfather was from Tabriz, and Grandmother from Ashgobat, I can certify for a fact that your are an agenda driven liar.

The majority of people in the former Soviet states of Central can understand and communicate with an Azari speaker. Such is not the case for an Istanbuli speaker, such as yourself. There is simply TOO much Arabic in the Turkish language to be comprehensible by those in Central Asia. For example, Turkman and Azari are virtually the same, and are really just dialects of one another. As a result, Azari is, for all intents an purposes, the lingua franca of the Turkic speaking world.


2) "Azeris were always around before the Turks, developing along with Armenian, Persion, and other east Caucus Mountain people...They, unlike the great majority of Turkic tribes, adopted the Shia religion (this significant in the further increase of differences later on). I still believe whole heartedly that Azeris never had anything ethnically to do with Turkic or nomadic people. "

To believe from ones "heart" has very little to do with rational science.

3)"Where are your old miniature paintings, scriptures, and ancient games played on horseback or wrestling? I see Uygurs, Uzbeks, Tatars, and Kazakhs having (or had) these sorts of things in common with me, but not Azeris.[/QUOTE]

Are you really this naive? Have you ever even set foot in Northern Iran? The Azaris are FAMOUS for such practices.

Ironically, some of the practices actually predate the Turkic arrival, such as wrestling, and are gift to the Turk form their Iranian cousins.

4)"Now in the modern era, after being ruled by Russians, then Soviets, for all that time, there are fundamental differences between Azerbaijan and Turkey, to the point where I can comfortably say the only thing we have to do with each other  is linguistic similarity (although I think this was always the only similarity). Islam (and any other belief advocating any type of morals for that matter) is dead, and athiest/materialistic communist virtues are still very much the norm. "

The Azari langauge of Iran has had ZERO Russian influence within it, and yet you claim that the Russians affected them as well? I hope you do realize that the majority of Azaris live in Iran, and not Azaribijan.

I actually do agree with you point that the Northern Azari have been culturally ruined by the Russian Communists. That I have seen first hand.

5) "I have known numerous Turks going to Azerbaijan for business or politics, and they never ever come back with anything good to say. It is a totally different (and poltically/culturally/militarily insignificant) country. From my dealings with big groups of Azeris, their customs and culture are totally different. They have all these things they do that resemble Russian tradition more than Turkic. Nobody takes their shoes off, everyone is stuffing their mouths with pork, they are very loud....What Turk would serve a roasted pig with an apple in it's mouth for dinner?"

What would you expect after over a century of Russian rule? Do you really think its any better in Kazakstan, or Uzbekistan?

6) "It's amusing to know that Azerbaijan, being not only defeated but occupied by a country 1 third it's size, sent 100 soldiers to Iraq to help the Americans. Hell, they sold tanks to Armenia while they were at war with them."

Well, Iran and Russian backed Armenia. Turkey backed Azaribijan. Interesting results, don't you think?


7) "Turks and Azeris share none of the same values. All this Turkish and Azeri solidarity non-sense is the result of Azeris trying to bunch themselves up with others who actually HAVE history, culture, and tradition. "

Like I said before, you have spent no time in Iran, and your comments are based out biased prejudice and ignorance.

8) "In essence, I believe Azeris have more to do with Armenians and Russians than Turkic people (note - no jab at Armenians or Russians), and South Azeris have more to do with Iranis than Turkic people. We have more differences than similarities, and our cultures conflict more than they agree. Azeris were always around before the Turks came, and seem to be more like an off-shoot of some Persian peoples than anything else."

Or even those pesksy Scythians you fellas love to mention all the time...

9) "Turks have much more in common even today with Tatars, Kazaks, Uzbeks, and especially Uygurs than Azeris."

100% Wrong!

Turks from the Anatolian Peninsula probably share more with Arabs than anyone else, at least those in the Western regions(which is the "Turkic" majority of the popuation).

The notion that the Turkish have anything in common with Kazaks or Uzbeks is something that could only be quoted from an individual who has not experienced those cultures and peoples first hand.

All I have to say is, go look in a mirrior...

10) "Just my opinion, Azeris are not and never were Turks. They are not successors to the Turkic nomads of old."

And "Turkey" Turks are even less so...

Oh, and how do you figure that Azaris ever came across the Turkic langauge? HHHhhhmmm???

11) "If you want to read something more credible than my rant here, go to http://www.iranchamber.com/people/language_azeri_people_ pan_turkism."

Are you aware that the link you sited is a right-wing "Pan-Iranist" source?

Why not just sight the website to the Nazis, while your ate it.

12) "It's the Irani take on the issue. Although their section on pan-Turkism is ignorant, read what they say on the origins of Azeris and who they really are."

I did...There wrong.



Posted By: Chono
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 03:43
The gastronomical market there has a very speedy pace, ten years ago turkish eateries were en vogue, don't be surprised if you can't find that place anymore.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 05:54
Well.... You think like this, ha? But my opinion is different. Turkish people cannot be like Mongolian ones. Someone thinks that turkish people and mongolian people are from the same nation. On the other hand, it's impossible. For instance, The Turkish don't like meat kinds at all. Because they do not know how to eat it. Another example is they do not love ''guests''. By contrast, The mongolians like eat a lot of meat kinds and very hospital ones. By the way, do they know where their roots came from?   

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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 11:11
Thank you Padishah.  Unfortunatly I do not know my Azeri roots as well as my Turkish,  so I wasn't able to prove those points.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 11:17
Solo, what are you talking about?  Turks don't like meat?  All the Turks that I know love meat.  How did Turks get to be known for their great hospitatlity if we don't like guest?  Turkish hospitality is one of the best in the world, anyone that steps foot into a Turkish household would tell you that.  Turks, from what I have been taught and just about every other Turk has been taught, have originateded in the area of Mongolia and the Altay Mountains.


Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 12:58

I don't think Turko-Mongolic peoples took wrestling from Iranians.

solo, what are you talking about? You don't seem to know Turks of Turkey.

Padishah, it would be an ignorent statement to claim that Turks of Turkey are closer to Arabs



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Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum


Posted By: Kubrat
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 21:31
So can a Turk from Turkey understand any Central Asian languages?

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Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
-William Shakespeare


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 22:32
Yes, it'll be easier for the Turk depending on the dialect being spoken and the education of the Turk.  Some dialects will take longer than others to understand.  There are dialects out there that a Turk probably can't understand without learning it all.  When I was in East Turkistan, I only had to learn just a few words to be able to communicate just the basics, the rest just took some time to understand.  It might've been easier for me than others because I have studied a lot of words before my trip there.


Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 14:46
I guess Eastern (Uzbek and Uyghur) are closer to Oghuz rather than Siberian, Qïpchaq and Chuvash groups.

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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 16:13
Yes Padishah, I agree.  Definetly Chuvash, I never heard the language, but I have been told that a Turk would be lucky to understand a word from a Chuvash speaker.


Posted By: ihsan
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 17:11
Well Chuvash is very different from Oghuz Turkic. It's the only group being the descendent of the Western dialect of Old Turkic.

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Qaghan of the Vast Steppes

http://steppes.proboards23.com - Steppes History Forum


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2005 at 20:55
I know about most of the dialects but the dialects spoken in Siberia I don't know much about.  I know the names of them but I don't know which dialect they are closest to or how they sound.  May you explain?


Posted By: Artaxiad
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 14:13

I don't understand how people think that Azeris were already ''there'' before Turkic migrations. Caucasian Albania and Atropatene (Adrbadagan) were as Azeri as Byzantium and Pontus were Turkish. Albania, an ancient kingdom in the area of Azerbaijan had more to do with Armenians than with Azeris. They beleived in the Armenian version of Christianity, and used an alphabet created by an Armenian.

Muslims of modern Azerbaijan used to be called Tatars during the 19th century.

It's true that Armenians and Azeris were close. If it wasn't for Russian rule (or should I say, misrule) we would have remained close...

 



Posted By: Yungsiyebu_Uriankhai
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2005 at 21:55

Today's Mongolians were common descendants of many ancient nomadic nations in the Mongolian steppes, such as Xiong-nu,Xian-bei,Rou-ran,Tu-jue,Khitan,etc, most of those were proto-Mongolian and proto-Turkic nations.  I don't see there're any difference between Modun's Xiong-nu, Tumen's Tujue and Chinggis Khan's Mongols except the origins of their royal families.

 



Posted By: Hardel
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 06:31
A kazakh guy said me:We are speaking Turkish.I understand Kyrgyz and Uigur,but don't understand Uzbek and Turk.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 09:48

Originally posted by Hardel

A kazakh guy said me:We are speaking Turkish.I understand Kyrgyz and Uigur,but don't understand Uzbek and Turk.

Kazakh is not very similar to Oguz Turkish. This is one of the hardest Turkic languages to understand for an Oguz originated Turkic community and language. Turkey Turkish is mostly similar to Azeri, but with a few weaks of education in Turkmenistan or Uzbekistan, we can totally communicate with them. Kyrgiz, Kazakh, Chuvash and Altai Turkish are much more harder than Uighur for a Turkey Turkish speaker...



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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2005 at 14:40
I always thougt that if you can understand and speak Uygur, you would have no problem with Ozbek.  The two dialects are almost identical, some linguistics even think they might be the same dialect with very little differences.


Posted By: mongol warrior
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 19:08

Originally posted by Feramez

I'm planning on going there maybe this summer or next winter.  A trip I been wanting to take for a ling time.
dont go in winter time!!! the weather's about  - 30'C.

i think think there is enough common in mongolian and turkish tradition,

and lot of words are (have) same (meaning), ex : mongolian flower - tsetseg [spelling in turkish : ceceg] == turkish checheg [c,ec,eg] .. etc..

 



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- under the power of eternal blue sky


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2005 at 22:57
Oh yea, we share a lot of words in our languages.  Quite a few military terms as well, ex. Turkish-tümen and I think it's the same in Mongolian.  I'm not going unless it's in July during the annual Cengiz Han festival.  I doubt I'll make it though, I'm getting a new job and they probably wont give me vacation that quickly.  So I'll have to go next year maybe.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 05:07

Dear Oghuz  Oghlu,

    Hi there. This is my second message for you I think! Anyhow, I just wanted to tell you this: I'm a Turkmen. If you know your Turkish really good, you can understand all accents in Central Asia. Now, I'm not showing off, but I told you before... in the place I am for the time being, I live with Uzbeks, Kazaks and a Kyrgiz family. You know, I understand most of them easily. I said most of them and not all of them; because every Turkish accent's got it's own words not used in others. By the way, most researchers say that we've got three groups of Altaic languages: Turkish and Mongolian wich are somehow alike (somehow) and a thrid group like Chuvash which is not like any of the Turkish or Mongolian accents. Seems like it belongs to a very ancient form of the Altaic languages. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regars,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 05:16

Dear Mongol Warrior (the brother),

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, I'd hope. I just wanted to mention more common words in our languages... words like:

   Tumen ( 10000), Altin (Gold) in Turkish and Altan in Mongolian, Sari (yellow in Turkish) and Sira in Mongolian, Kan common in both of them, Kakan common in both of them, Bori (wolf) in Turkish and Borti in Mongolian, Temir (iron) in Turkish wich is similar to yours, ' Ok Yayi' in Turkish... agian similar to yours, Batir (brave) in Turkish and Batur in Mongolian, Tengiz (sea) in Turkish and Chengiz in Mongolian, Tikin (king) in Turkish and Chikin (as in Ot Chikin you might say; we say Ot Tikin) in Mongolian, Yarligh in both of them, Oghul in both of them, and a lot more words you may find az common. My brother, take good care and just take it easy.

 

All the best,

Iltirish 



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:29

Dear Turks & Mongols,

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, I'd hope. Well, one thing I'll say about my ID is that it has nothing to do with the name of the empire 'Gok Turk'. The second word of my ID, 'toruk' is derived from the verb 'Toremek'. You all know what it means: ' to be born'. I've heard a lot of people here call me 'Gok Turk'. It's ok anyhow, but I just wanted to inform you of the right way to write my name. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:39

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, let's face this issue... I'm going to talk about the nations of Central Asia. I'll leave a message describing each of them.

   To begin, I should say, only the names of Kyrgizes and Turkmens (oghuzes) was found in old inscriptions. Word 'Uzbek' dates back to almost 1400 A.D. and 'Kazak' to 1500 A.D. First, I'll try to tell you the story of Uzbeks.

   One of the descendents of Chenghiz Khan named 'Uzbek' was the kan of the land which is now known az Uzbekistan. He lead people from different tribes like Kipchak, Turkmens (oghuzes), Jalayer and a lot more. His people years later was called, in honor of their kan, 'Uzbek'. This happened around 1400 A.D. Nowhere you may find this name before that date. But they aer Turk anyhow. Take good care and just take it eays.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

 



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:47

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, this time, the story is about Kazaks. Sometime around 1500 A.D., a man who led a big tribe, killed one of the men of Sutan Abu Sa'eed Abal Kheyr (right?). So he and his men had to leave his homeland. During years later, he gained a big land to settle his people. They were called Kazaks. Like Uzbeks, you find a lot of Turkish and also Mongolian tribes who call themselves Kazak. But all of them bilieve they are Turk and speak Turkish. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

 



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 11:51

Dear Turks & Mongols,

   Hi there. I just forget to tell you in the upper part: the messages above does not mean Uzbeks and Kazaks are not pure. They are a mixture of Turks and Mongols; but again, they are a pure sample of Yellow great rag. So, I'm just not attacking my Uzbeks and kazaks 'karin tash's. So, please understand I don't mean anything. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:15

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing Fine. Well, about Oghuzes (former name of Turkmens), I should say, they left Mongolia in almost 900 A.D. Because they were consisted of 9 tribes, they were called 'toghuz oghuz'. They were one of the biggest tribes of the seteppes. Even after getting to Central Asia, they were still a strong tribe among others. After making up the 'gok turk' empire with other tribes, in Central Asia they started the empire Ghaznali, Seljuk li. They were one of the bases of Kharazm li empire too.

   Years later, a small part of Oghuzes migrated to Turkey. They were 'kinik's. Usmanli rised from this tribe. But because of change in weather and the fact that Kiniks mixed up with europeans, they were no longer like their ancestors. Nowadays, only Turkmenistan Oghuz (Turkmens) look like a Turk & Mongol. That's about it . Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:21

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Now, this time is about Kyrgizes. Their name appeares in Orkhon Inscriptions. They used to live far in the Northern Mongolia. In 924 A.D., they invaded Orkhon. Almost 100 years later, they migrated to Central Asia (you know why all these tribes migrated to Central Asia? Just because they were getting too crowded. They need food for their family, place for the horses... and new places to invade!!!). Kyrgizes, were rather more silent compared to Oghuzes or Kipchaks. Maybe because they were less in numbers. Anyhow, they seem to keep the ancient customs pretty good. Still now, most of them have the nomoadic life. That's about it for the time being. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 12:54
Gok Toruk, I think you made a mistake.  You said that the three branches of the Altaic languages are Turkish, Mongolian and Chuvash.  It's actually Turkish, Mongolian and Tungus.  Chuvash is a sub group in the Turkish language, only containing 2 dialects of Chuvash.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 14:52

Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear Oghuz  Oghlu,

    Hi there. This is my second message for you I think! Anyhow, I just wanted to tell you this: I'm a Turkmen. If you know your Turkish really good, you can understand all accents in Central Asia. Now, I'm not showing off, but I told you before... in the place I am for the time being, I live with Uzbeks, Kazaks and a Kyrgiz family. You know, I understand most of them easily. I said most of them and not all of them; because every Turkish accent's got it's own words not used in others. By the way, most researchers say that we've got three groups of Altaic languages: Turkish and Mongolian wich are somehow alike (somehow) and a thrid group like Chuvash which is not like any of the Turkish or Mongolian accents. Seems like it belongs to a very ancient form of the Altaic languages. Take good care and just take it easy.

Kind regars,

Iltirish

Dear Iltirish,

Hi there, I couldnt find your other message to me, but it doesnt matter, nice to meet you. I am an Anatolian Turkmen, so I will call you brother. My uncle has been to central asia lots of times, and he says that to understand and communicate with a Turkmen and Uzbek is much more easier than to speak with a Kazakh and Kyrgiz Turk. I thought that Altaic languages were divided into three main parts, as Turkic, Tunguzic and Mongolian, but I am not aware of the new researches about this. But I know that Chuvash is a much more different dialect than others.

After I've read your other post about the Turkish immigrations to Anatolia, I detected lots of mistakes in your post. You were wrong with some points, especially with the amount of Turkish (mostly Turkmen) immigrations to Anatolia. Tribes from all 24 "ok" of Oguz Turkmens and from all other Turkic tribes have immigrated to Anatolia, with mass migrations since even before the battle of Manzikert and the conquests of Seljuks, 9th and 10th centuries and they were mostly Oguz, Kipchak and Pechenek Turks. These mass immigrations continiued until two hundred years after the Mongol invasions and the battle of Ankara, Osmanli (Ottomans) against Timurlu (Timurids). So I can even say that most of the current Turkmen population have immigrated to Persia with Seljuks, Khwarizmshah, Safavids, Azerbaijan, and mostly all over Anatolia. Today, eve some cities and lots of towns are named from those tribes' in Anatolia, such as Ighdir and Yureghir.

And Ottoman dynasty's origins were not from Kinik tribe. Gunduz Alp Begh, Ertughrul Begh and his son, Osman Begh all belonged to "Kayi" tribe of "Bozok". But the Seljuks belonged to Kınık. I also belong to the Kınık tribe of Turkmens.

But this is true that lots of intermixing happened btw the huge Turkish population who immigrated to these regions and Persian (Acem), current Anatolian population and part with Europeans (but this isnt that much for most of Turkey Turks). But there still exist lots of us who didnt mix with Europeans nor Anatolians, but maybe some with Acemi originated tribes.

I am waiting to chat with you in the non-English board, and you can always send me pms if you wish...

With kinder regards,

Yashar Emre



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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 01-May-2005 at 15:41
Chuvash is the oldest existing western Turkish dialect.


Posted By: Kuu-ukko
Date Posted: 02-May-2005 at 09:42
Aren't the Turkic "dialects" more like languages? For example, I understand Estonian farely well, but Finnish and Estonian are completely different languages. Isn't it the same with Turkic languages?


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 02-May-2005 at 15:32
They are all the same language, each region has their own differences but for the most part is understandable between one another.  Here's a good link that shows you the sub groups of the language, maybe you will understand a little better.  http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turklm.htm - http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turk lm.htm


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 03:13

Dear Oghuz Oghlu,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, thank you very much for your concern. I should inform you of the followings:

1- When I talked abouyt Chuvash, I said: 'there's a third group LIKE chuvash...'. I didn't mean Chuvash is the only dialect in this group. That's it.

2- Well, about immigration of Turks to Anatoli, again, you haven't read carefully. I said the family 'Usmanli' was a member of Oghuzes. They were not Kipchaks. They were not Pechenek either. And by they way, 24 tribes ( or 'ok's) you'd mentioned is just a classical classification. It returns to Oghuz Kan's 6 sons and you know every one of them had 4 sons. So, totaly, they were 24. But in reality, most of them does not exist. Even when we Oghuzes were in Mongolian Steppes, we were called ' Toghuz Oghuz', but not' yigrimi tort oghuz'. To explian more, the nine tribes mentioned above are:

1- Tekke 2- Yomut 3-Gokleng 4-Ersari 5-Salur 6-Sarik 7-Kara

8- Chawtur 9- Al Illi

By the way, I'm a Salur Oghuz. We were one of the biggest and strongest tribes of all Central Asia. But nowadays, you may not find them everywhere. Due to my investigations in Anatoli, I haven't found any Salur there. The same can be said about 'Kara's, 'Sarik's and 'Chaawtur's.
   My brother, we're not here to argue with each other. I just wated to make this issues obvious. I'll be in Non-English froums soon, anyhow. So, until that time, take good care and just take it easy.

 

Sincerely,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 12:46
Salur?  I know of a Turkish tribe in Gansu Province in China called Salar.  Are they the same people?  I figured you were either Uygur or a tribe in the same family when you said "yigrimi tort oghuz" in your last post.


Posted By: AyKurt
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 16:54
The Salar originate from Transoxiana.  They belong to the Oghuz branch of Turkic.
According to Salar folklore they fled Uzbekistan in the 11th century from persecution.
Although there are Salar Turks in Gansu most live in Qinghai province in China.  I think they descend from a Turkmen tribe called Salor.


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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 17:25
I know about the Salar but they're not in the Oguz branch.  They're in the Eastern branch with Uygur, Ozbek and Sari Uygur.


Posted By: AyKurt
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 20:11
It is likely that Uyghur has influenced the Salar language due to close contact, however the origins of the Salar are Oguz, and they usually are classed as Oguz Turks rather than Eastern Turkic.

These links have Salar as an oghuz Turkic language
http://home.arcor.de/marcmarti/yugur/language/lanhist.htm
http://dmoz.org/Science/Social_Sciences/Linguistics/Langua ges/Natural/Altaic/desc.html
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=slr
http://www.answers.com/topic/salar-1

However this link classifies Salar as a deviating language in the South Eastern group which developed in the South Western (Oguz) group
http://www.turkiclanguages.com/www/classification.html

i think the most logical answer is that Salar is a language with an Oguz base which has been influenced by the Eastern Turkic languages which they passed through during their migration to their current homeland.



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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 21:14

I have this link here that shows all the Turkish groups.

http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turklm.htm - http://titus.fkidg1.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turk lm.htm

A map I have on my bedroom wall, printed in Turkish, shows the same but catergorizes the groups in Western, Eastern, Northern, Southern, Central and Chuvash.  Both put Salar into the same Eastern group.  But oh well.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 22:29

Hello everyone, new to the site!

I believe that the Mongolians are related to todays Turks in Turkey in only liguistic terms. As far as their relationship to earlier Turks, we know that there was a link possibly due to intercommunal marriages, but evidence that there is a genetic bond is up in the air.



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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 03-May-2005 at 23:03
Welcome to AllEmpires.  There is a genetic link between Mongols and Turks, in Siberia, mainly southern Siberia and some parts of Central Asia.  This is probably due to them living side by side for so long and mixing with eachother, that's normal especially for nomads.  Turks of Turkey mixed with people in that area, Eastern Europe, Middle East and Caucasus.


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 04-May-2005 at 07:39

I belive as was mentioned earlier that Turks and Mongols are cousens. The Turks and Monglos speak similar languages and before the Turks migrated mixed marieges did happen. The Mongol alphabet was taken fromthe Uygur Turks, Ghengis Hans childrred used Turks for advise on wars, the Golden Horde and the first dynansty of the Mameluks were a mixture of Turks and Mongols. Below are stories concernig  the origin of these people

Apparantly the Turks and Mongols are accestors of Noah's son Yafeth, from Yafeth line came a man called Turk who had sons named Tatar and Mongol. Although whether this is true or not i dont know, but its quite interesting.

In Turkic, Mongol and Chinese myths the Mongols and the Turks are anncestors of a wolf. When a wolf raised a child who then had intimate relations leading to the Mongols and Turks. The chinese believed that this is why we are hairy.

Concerning the Azeris, i belive that they are Turks as before the Russion invasion they were labled as Tatars. The reason the culture is has many diffrences is because the russions were so strict that many sunni Azeris left there land for Turkey the rest forgot a lot about there religion and customs. THanks tothere independence they are trying to revive the Azeri Turk links thus the link between Turkey and Azerbajan.

Forget about what Turkey is doing concerning Turkic nations there to busy running after the EU



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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 04-May-2005 at 11:14
I know, it's very upseting and a damn shame.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 06-May-2005 at 08:32

Dear All,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, if I'm a Salur Oghuz, I know who are they, where they live and what a language they speak. Now, about Salars, I should say, they are an Oghuz descent. But, beacuse of the long time passed and the geographical distance between them and reall Oghuzes (Turkmens), their Turkish is a little bit different; but not that much that would not be understood. It's really obvious. Anyhow, don't try to learn an Oghuz (a Turkmen) who he is, where he's from. Mind your own business!!!

Sincerely,

Iltirsh



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 06-May-2005 at 08:44

Dear Feramez,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, how do you say '24' in your Turkish? I think you say 'yigrimi dort', hmm? Anyhow, I'm not an Uyghur. I'm an Oghuz; a Turkmen. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 06-May-2005 at 11:57
I saw you type yigrime tort.  I know that's how it's said in Uygur.  In my Turkish it's yirmi dort.  What the hell is wrong with you?  Noone is argueing with you.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 09-May-2005 at 09:48

Dear Feramez,

   Hi there.  well, I think you've made a mistake. Now, come down 'kardeshim'!!! Just look at all those exclamation marks I've used and the smiley mentioned. I was just joking. There's no cause to get angry with me. Hepimiz Kardeshiz, doghru mu? And about '24', in real Turkish, it's 'yigrimi tort', but with a little bit differents in accents, you may find they say 'yigrimit dort'. Mostly, in different forms of Turkish, 'd' is used instead of 't'; becasue it's rather slighter. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

P.S: I didn't mean anything!!!



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 13-May-2005 at 07:43

Well Done, gok toruk,

Yes we are all kerdes (bros.)

Although is 24 the only number thats the same as ours, how about the rest, eg. bir, iki, uc (uch) etc?



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Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 13-May-2005 at 12:13
Osmanli, I don't know about the Salar language much, but I know in Uygur, Ozbek and Turkmen share all the same numbers.  If not, the differences are very small, you wont really tell the difference.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-May-2005 at 10:25

Hi Turkogullari,

 For years and years i am trying to find who i am!!? maybe you guys here can help me with your experiences in History! Originally i am from Turkey,Anatolia.and for the experts from Ürgüp-Nevsehir.International people know that place as Cappadoccia. Now can you maybe give me some clues that what i am???or who i am? I wish to be a solid Turkish like some of the Turks in Asian. but whatever i am proud to be a turkish and i feel my strong and warrior turk blood in my body,whatever if it is mixed with european or not...

  And another thing that i was in Shanghai last winter and i met with an Uighur Turk(first time in my life) who was wroking in a turkish restaurant.We had a short dialog and i was really surprised that i could understand his language.dialect was not the same.but it was a great feeling and proud,you know what i mean... waiting for your answers  ...  thanks    



Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 14-May-2005 at 11:15

Welcome Temucin,

Without having a precise family of origin genealogy, it would be difficult to prove an ethnic identity. To start with, I suggest that you research the ethnicity of the inhabitants of the town that you and your parents were originally from. Whether your blood is 'mixed' or not has more to do with mentality than with 'noble blood'. We, as Turks, have 'Turkish' blood but we don't know how much. Your belief system is a feature that allows you to act in ways you deem appropriate. Culture, history, education, faith in a higher power, social responsibilities, genetic disposition and environmental experiences are influences that make you who you are today. Hope you have peace and success in your quest.



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Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 14-May-2005 at 12:00

Dear All,

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, Hi'd hope.

   Especial regards to my 'osmanli kardesh'. You're right; we're all of the same family.  . And about the numbers; in all dialects of Turkish, the numbers are the same (not only number... the structure and basic words). Now, look at all these words found in all dialects: bir, iki, uch, tort, besh, alti, yeti, seki, toghuz, on and you know the rest.

    Best wishes, also, for Feramez. Dear Feramez, hope you're not still angry with me. Write and tell me you're not.

   And a 'welcome' for our new-comer; Temucin. Hope you find all the way to your background. I suggest getting to different pages loaded here. And if you don't find your answer, why don't you ask us? We'll be glad to help you.

    Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 14-May-2005 at 12:13
Originally posted by Temücin

Hi Turkogullari,

 For years and years i am trying to find who i am!!? maybe you guys here can help me with your experiences in History! Originally i am from Turkey,Anatolia.and for the experts from Ürgüp-Nevsehir.International people know that place as Cappadoccia. Now can you maybe give me some clues that what i am???or who i am? I wish to be a solid Turkish like some of the Turks in Asian. but whatever i am proud to be a turkish and i feel my strong and warrior turk blood in my body,whatever if it is mixed with european or not...

  And another thing that i was in Shanghai last winter and i met with an Uighur Turk(first time in my life) who was wroking in a turkish restaurant.We had a short dialog and i was really surprised that i could understand his language.dialect was not the same.but it was a great feeling and proud,you know what i mean... waiting for your answers  ...  thanks    

I doubt you're the only one that has wondered that.  I know I have wondered , I'm sure I have some mixture in my blood from way back.  It's just obvious by looking in the mirror, even though my family and freidsn do tell me I can pass as a Central Asian Turk, which I have passed for one many times in East Turkistan.  I suggest taking a geneology test, that should give you all the answers you're looking for straight out on paper.  As for the feeling you had while talking to the Uygur in China, I know how that feels, when I was there I spoke to many Uygurs and felt the same proud feeling you did.  I can't really explain the feeling, but you're very happy and proud because it's not like most ethnic groups where if you're French you're people are from France and that's it.  But for us Turks, we're everywhere....I don't know but it is a god feeling.



Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 14-May-2005 at 12:14
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear All,

   Hi there. How's it going? Fine, Hi'd hope.

   Especial regards to my 'osmanli kardesh'. You're right; we're all of the same family.  . And about the numbers; in all dialects of Turkish, the numbers are the same (not only number... the structure and basic words). Now, look at all these words found in all dialects: bir, iki, uch, tort, besh, alti, yeti, seki, toghuz, on and you know the rest.

    Best wishes, also, for Feramez. Dear Feramez, hope you're not still angry with me. Write and tell me you're not.

   And a 'welcome' for our new-comer; Temucin. Hope you find all the way to your background. I suggest getting to different pages loaded here. And if you don't find your answer, why don't you ask us? We'll be glad to help you.

    Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

I'm not mad at you, I never was.  I was just confused at the way you reacted to our discussion.



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-May-2005 at 08:36

Dear Seko,

       Really it is hard to say that i am or most of the turkish people havent got mixed blood, because where my parents and grandfamily were living ,cappadoccia,was a popular place of Byzantium time.My grand family cant give me more informations about itthey just say everytime that the family was everytime here,in cappadoccia.so when I think that once there were Byzans citizens,it is a possibility that the blood could be mixed.

       And want to thank to Iltirish KaganBut I think it is soo hard to find out something about Backgrounds because i dont know But once i read that Turks have colored eyes and brunette hair color!If it is true,I got these quality anyway,I hope i can find more answers about it...Right now I have a BIG 0 in my hand   Well take care all... Waiting for all information about turks and turkic tribes      talk to you later...



Posted By: AyKurt
Date Posted: 17-May-2005 at 14:37
Personally i dont think its really a relevant quesion for me.  My ethnicity is Turkish and my nationality is Scottish.
I assume some of my ancestors may have spoken Greek, perhaps.  But then its also very likely that some would have spoken Hittite or one of the other ancient languages spoken in Anatolia.  It doesnt mean im a Turkified Greek anymore than im a Turkified Hittite or that one of my (possible) Greek speaking ancestors were Grecafied Hittites.  Im a Turk.  Simple. 
Also my maternal grandmother family were Rumelian Turks, so its also possible ive got ancestors that spoke Slavic or Illyrian.  After all no ethnic group has some kind of "copyright" to your genes.
If i wanted to know about my MtDNA or my Ychromosomes or what haplogroup i belong to there are many blood tests that can be taken.

I find those who say such things as "your really a greek or whatever who speaks Turkish" or " Im a pure blooded Turk" really annoying, as taken to the extreme all this talk about blood and race can only lead to inbreeding.  A trait of weakness and decline. 
The more diverse a people the more likely their chances of survival.  A good testament of this is the spread and size of the Turkic people.   Not because of "purity" but because of diversity in the genepool.


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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 08:04

Dear Feramez,

   Hi there.

   All right. Take good care and just take it easy.



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 08:08

Dear Temucin,

   Hi there. Hope you're dong fine. Wish also you find all the answers to your questions. Anyhow, I was just wondering what tribe you belonged to. Write and tell me who you are!!!  Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Sincerely,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 08:14

Hi all,  Can somebody tell me a book and it`s Author that about turkic or turks so that i can have a little more information about it!

   And i want to say that a poor blooded Turk doesnt exist on this World or anywhere. if somebody has Turk blood,it cant be poor! Our blood is strong isnt it?

  And i want to talk about another thing that i hear it almost everytime here in Europe.There are still so much people that they even thing that Turks and Araps are same.Really i hate it when i hear that.Just because 98% Turks in TR are Moslem! And another situation is the bad Reputation of Islam nowadays.When i meet with some people they dont ask me that where i am from ,they ask what is my religion! HEY PEOPLE WAKE UP!I AM A GERMAN WHO HAS TURKISH BLOOD...EVEN I DONT BELIEVE THAT THE SO CALLED"ISLAMIC TERRORIST" WILL BE IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE! "Nobody has the right to kill people,just i can do this.because i give you life and just i can take it back" says God... Well anyway,it sounds like out of Turkish topic but... forget this.. soo    take care all         &nb sp;     talk to you later



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 08:18

Hi Iltirish,

              I think i am from Oghuz tribe... but I am not sure...in Turkey they told me that most of the people in TR belongs to Oghuz tribe...So i want to find out is ti true or not...       



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 12:35
Originally posted by Temücin

Hi all,  Can somebody tell me a book and it`s Author that about turkic or turks so that i can have a little more information about it!

   And i want to say that a poor blooded Turk doesnt exist on this World or anywhere. if somebody has Turk blood,it cant be poor! Our blood is strong isnt it?

  And i want to talk about another thing that i hear it almost everytime here in Europe.There are still so much people that they even thing that Turks and Araps are same.Really i hate it when i hear that.Just because 98% Turks in TR are Moslem! And another situation is the bad Reputation of Islam nowadays.When i meet with some people they dont ask me that where i am from ,they ask what is my religion! HEY PEOPLE WAKE UP!I AM A GERMAN WHO HAS TURKISH BLOOD...EVEN I DONT BELIEVE THAT THE SO CALLED"ISLAMIC TERRORIST" WILL BE IN HEAVEN WHEN THEY KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE! "Nobody has the right to kill people,just i can do this.because i give you life and just i can take it back" says God... Well anyway,it sounds like out of Turkish topic but... forget this.. soo    take care all         &am p;nb sp;     talk to you later

Hi Temücin, welcome here.

I wanted to remind you that you got the issue of "pure bloodyness" totally wrong. Pure means "saf", but "poor" is a totally different word. And the discussion was about the "pure blood" thing, which sounds very racist or imaginary to me. Such things adont exist in our age, for none of the current nations.

And do you have any specific topics that you wish to learn? So I can suggest you books about lots of different things about Turkic people, Turks, their history, common believs, etc.



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Posted By: Gazi
Date Posted: 18-May-2005 at 13:32

Temücin first of all welcome!Now secondly dont get offended but I think this pure bloodedness thing will only lead you into a swamp of racism.If you speak Turkish as your mother tongue,If you are a part of Turkish culture and most importantly if you can proudly say that you are a Turk; then you are  a Turk!



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“Freedom is the recognition of necessity.”-Friedrich Engels


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-May-2005 at 09:11

Hey all, at first sorry about "pure"..I understood it wrong it is because of my "poor" eNGLISHWell i want to tell that it has nothing to do with racism when i talk about pure blood...I dont underestimate any race,I wanted to tell that our blood is really strong and there were many examples of it in history...

Well,about my mother language,it is also complicated because i can speak better German than Turkishand better Turkish than English Well anyway, I will write more when i get something to discuss...Take care all   talk to you later... 

PS:and about the books it can be about turkic,i dont know...a book that i can learn more where the turkic tribes from where are they now what are they doing and such stuff...        &nbs p;         &nbs p;   Thanks



Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 21-May-2005 at 07:32

Dear Temucin,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, it's believed that Turkish people are the descendent of Oghuzes. But, Oghuzes've got their own tribes too. Anyhow, you can say it's none of my business!!!  Take good care and just take it eays.

 

Sincerely,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2005 at 09:02
hi, and i have another question that i wonder!!!I wonder that how do u say " LUCK" in turkish languages?????


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 06-Jun-2005 at 19:21

Originally posted by Temücin

hi, and i have another question that i wonder!!!I wonder that how do u say " LUCK" in turkish languages?????

Turkish in Turkey it is: ªans (Shans).



Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 10:37

Dear Feramez,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, sorry for this a little bit too late reply. You know, it's common to hear 'shans'. But, the truth is that, 'shans' is Turkish form of the English word 'chance'. But in Turkmen, the equivalent for the word 'luck' is  'Yarghu'. And because I believe that basic words does not differ in various accents of Turkish. So, that's what they call in Turkish. At least that's for sure in Turkmen Turkish. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 20:26
We also use "uğur".  The ending seems close to Yarghu.  I can see how uğur changed from yarghu.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 09-Jun-2005 at 09:35

Dear Feramez,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, thanks for your concern. Uh, you're probably right. They seem to be close. So, that's what you said.

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 04:05

Dear all,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, I've just learnt something. I thought you might be interested in, too.

   In khorasan Province of Iran, there's a tribe living who's got the characteristics of Turkish & Mongolian rag. Once I was there, I thought they were Turkmens or Central Asian; cause Khorasan is at the border of Iran and Turkmenistan. But when I wanted to talk Turkish with them; they just didn't understand what I said. Anyhow, later I found out, they were Turkish and Mongolian tribes that stayed in Iran after conquering Iran with their leader, Cengiz Kagan. They've forgot their original language; so they speak Farsi (Iranian). But, I've noticed that, still, after 700 years, they use some old Turkish & Mongolian words. Some old customs, are well preserved among them. When I asked one of their 'aq saqal's about their inner tribes, they replied so:

'we are the combination of two Turkish and three Mongolian tribes; a Turkmen tribe, an Uzbek tribe, and three Mongolian; but anyhow, Turkmens and Uzbeks are Mongoloid and our brothers too. We live in peace together. They help us and we help them...'

   Then I looked for people belonging to each of the tribes above. And I was able to find them. They were right. Their Turkmen tribe, speak Turkmen; Uzbek tribe, speak Uzbek. But unfortunately, the Mongolians do not speak their mother tonge. When I asked them about their language, they told me that their grandfathers used to speak Turkish (not Mongolian), because Turkish population was the majority; so they had to pick it up. They're called as 'barbari', 'Teymuri' and 'Khavari' in Mashad. And the interesting thing is that only Khorasanians know about them.

   That's about it for the time being. Take good care and take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

P.S: If you had any question about them, I'll be glad to ask while I'm here among them.



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 12:26
That's interesting, I never knew this about them, thanks.


Posted By: Kenaney
Date Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 12:48

Nice. I got a few questions.

Are they playing typical Turkish/Mongolian games like "cirit" or any other horse-games?



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OUT OF LIMIT


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 04:19

Dear Kenaney,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Thanks for your concern, anyhow. Well, in Iran, expect Turkmens (real Turkmens; their ancetors, earlier than 3rd one, dates back to Turkmenistan. It's just because of the border that they live in Iran), nobody rides horses; simply because you see no nomads. Now, all Turkmens are not nomads. But they just preserve their customs very well. You knew this that Gonbad Horse Riding Palace is the largest and the most beautiful Riding place in the Middle East? And Gonbad is one of the cities (in Iran) that mostly Turkmens (not barbarian Turkmens) live there.

   Anyhow, so just Turkmens of those "Barbari' or 'Teymuri' or 'Khavari' people rides horses. Now about their plays, I should say 'no', they don't know old Turkish and Mongolian plays.

   That's about it for the time being. Take good care and just take it easy.

 

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish



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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Aygucu Tonyukuk
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2005 at 17:49
Even if Mongols and Turks are not from the same origin, we are too mixed with each other.

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Turkish History Forum
www.turktarihi.net


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 14-Jul-2005 at 09:18
Dear Aygucu Tonyukuk,
   Hi there. Best wishesh and respect. Well, you're right; we're too mixed with each other. Anyhow, you know that Turkish and Mongolian languages had no difference in 600 B.C. Now, they were not called as 'turkish' and 'mongolian'. But they were of the same origin. Take good care and watch out !!!



Kind regards,
Iltirish

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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: perdon
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 08:43
Huh,I really don't know why you people like mogolian so much !!!! and try to think o'zbek look like mogolian !!!! nonsense !!!!


Posted By: perdon
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 08:48

what happened to you gok_toruk !!!firstly ,you are trying to put some some images of people not even look like central asian to sya they are turkmen and now say mogolian and turk are of the same origin !!!

 



Posted By: Cengiz Kagan
Date Posted: 15-Jul-2005 at 21:34
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear Aygucu Tonyukuk,
   Hi there. Best wishesh and respect. Well, you're right; we're too mixed with each other. Anyhow, you know that Turkish and Mongolian languages had no difference in 600 B.C. Now, they were not called as 'turkish' and 'mongolian'. But they were of the same origin. Take good care and watch out !!!



Kind regards,
Iltirish


I agree with you. Turks and Mongols have the same origins. Even nowadays the differences are negligible.





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TANRI TURKU KORUSUN


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 10:55
Dear Perdon,
   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, I don't like them; but I don't hate them either; I just know they were great lier to Turkic tribes. Anyhow, I've told this story a thousand times; another time here:

22000 year ago, there used to live a tribe in Mongolia. When southern Mongolia get dried and changed into Gobbi desert, a part of that tribes went to China to be the ancestors of Chinese people we've got today. But a part stayed there. Now who's Turk and who's Mongolian? We've got no tribes named Turk or Mongol. It's just a political name picked up by the tribes living in Mongolia in 552
A.D. After GOk Turk, they still used to call themselves as Turks. Now almost in 1300 A.D, Chengiz Kan gatherd a large number of tribes living Mongolia and ruled them. In their 'qurultay', they chosed the name 'Mongol' which meant 'conquerer'. You know all the story. But the conclusion is really important. Anyhow, today most people think we've got a rag named Turk and another as Mongol. Linguistically, I told you, there was no difference between Turkic and Mongolian accents until 600 B.C. That's about it for the time being.


Kind regards,
Iltirish


P.S: Thanks for all your words in Y!Messenger. I think we're finished here.

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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Sultan
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 10:57

 

 gok_toruk

 i Always Thaought That The Iranians With The Afghans , Indians Have The Same Origins ... i Didnt Know That They Have Same Roots With Germans !

 : /



-------------
Turkistan is a door to two worlds,
Turkistan is a cradle of the Turks,
Living in beautiful Turkistan
Is Tengri's blessing to the Turks.

FREEDOM FOR EASTERN TURKISTAN


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 11:11
Dear Sultan,
   Hi there. Best wishes and respect. Well, Afghanis are part of Iranians. But Indians are brothers of Iranians. Anyhow, the story is:

   After getting to Northwestern part of Caspian Sea, European tribe 'Aria' was devided to three parts; a part migrated to Iran, a part to Indians and a part got back to Europe to be Germans. They're of the same origin. You've heard about Indo-European languages including Farsi (the official language of Iran). That's about it for the time being. Take good care and just take it easy.



Kind regards,
Iltirish

-------------
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Aygucu Tonyukuk
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 11:50
Today's Indians are mostly Dravid originned, not Arian.

-------------
Turkish History Forum
www.turktarihi.net


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 16-Jul-2005 at 12:29
Dear Aygucu Tonyukuk,
   Hi there. Well, we're talking about history; not today. You're right too. Take care...

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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.


Posted By: Ardashir
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 03:17
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear all,

   Hi there. Hope you're doing fine. Well, I've just learnt something. I thought you might be interested in, too.

   In khorasan Province of Iran, there's a tribe living who's got the characteristics of Turkish & Mongolian rag. Once I was there, I thought they were Turkmens or Central Asian; cause Khorasan is at the border of Iran and Turkmenistan. But when I wanted to talk Turkish with them; they just didn't understand what I said. Anyhow, later I found out, they were Turkish and Mongolian tribes that stayed in Iran after conquering Iran with their leader, Cengiz Kagan. They've forgot their original language; so they speak Farsi (Iranian). But, I've noticed that, still, after 700 years, they use some old Turkish & Mongolian words. Some old customs, are well preserved among them. When I asked one of their 'aq saqal's about their inner tribes, they replied so:

'we are the combination of two Turkish and three Mongolian tribes; a Turkmen tribe, an Uzbek tribe, and three Mongolian; but anyhow, Turkmens and Uzbeks are Mongoloid and our brothers too. We live in peace together. They help us and we help them...'

   Then I looked for people belonging to each of the tribes above. And I was able to find them. They were right. Their Turkmen tribe, speak Turkmen; Uzbek tribe, speak Uzbek. But unfortunately, the Mongolians do not speak their mother tonge. When I asked them about their language, they told me that their grandfathers used to speak Turkish (not Mongolian), because Turkish population was the majority; so they had to pick it up. They're called as 'barbari', 'Teymuri' and 'Khavari' in Mashad. And the interesting thing is that only Khorasanians know about them.

   That's about it for the time being. Take good care and take it easy.

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

P.S: If you had any question about them, I'll be glad to ask while I'm here among them.

Actually,all of the Turkish-speaknig Iranians are being assimilated in Iranian/Persian heritage.Don't dream about them.ok?



-------------
http://khakokhoon.blogfa.com


Posted By: Murtaza
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 03:26

Ardashir

I am curious, what will happen, If Islamic Goverment at Iran  is finished.

What will all Ethnics do about it?

If I am .ot wrong, Turks are mainly supporter this goverment.

 

 



Posted By: Ardashir
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 04:04
Originally posted by Murtaza

Ardashir

I am curious, what will happen, If Islamic Goverment at Iran  is finished.

What will all Ethnics do about it?

If I am not wrong, Turks are mainly supporter this goverment.

 

 

after the collapse of the Mullahs,a nationalist government will get the power and all of the Mongoloid elements throughout the country will be eleminated! get it?



-------------
http://khakokhoon.blogfa.com


Posted By: Murtaza
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 04:13
I hope  so


Posted By: erci
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 04:32
Ardashir no worries.an Iran without mullahs are more benefical to Turkey..




Posted By: Murtaza
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 04:35
why?


Posted By: gok_toruk
Date Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 04:44
Ardeshire aziz,
   Salam. Behtarin arezoo ha va ehteramat. Well, Turkic and Mongolian tribes in Iran are minorities; it's natural for them to get probelms with government. But it's only for the time being. Frist, Iranians were assimilated in Turkic and Mongolian heritage. You Fars people are claiming all Turkestan belonged to Iran. But remember Iran was added to Turkestan in the period Ghaznavid, Seljuks and Kharazmshahiyan rulled. They were originally Turkic tribes from Turkestan that invaded Iran and as a result Iran was added to Turks and Mongols territory. That's the reality. Bande ghasde tohin be hich Irani ro nadaram; amma vaghe'iyate manteghi ro donbal mikonam. Take good care and take it easy.


Kind regards,
Iltirish

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Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.



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