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Who was the oldest Turkic commander

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15001
Printed Date: 16-Apr-2024 at 07:21
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Topic: Who was the oldest Turkic commander
Posted By: Mosquito
Subject: Who was the oldest Turkic commander
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 17:38
As im really interested in Turkish history please tell me who was the oldest turkish commander ever commanding on the battlefield.
 
Regards


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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche


Replies:
Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 18:36
i think it would be a chinese name, sorry really i once heard of an 1000 bc (or older) xiongnu commander or khagan's name in chinese. Chinese is somewhat difficult, strange and hard to remember it. 

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Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 19:07
The oldest Turkic commander had chinese name?

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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche

Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:11
Mos, I don't think he had a Chinese name (BTW, I have absolutely NO idea who he was). He unquestionably had a Turkish name. However, written records of him could probably only be found in historical Chinese documents. This is in fact the case with a lot of the neighbouring cultural/ethnic groups surrounding China because these groups did not have a literary history as strong as that of China.
 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   


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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 25-Sep-2006 at 20:55
Originally posted by flyingzone

 
So his name would be a Chinese rendering of his Turkish name.   
correct.


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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 09:04

Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.


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Either make a history or become a history.

Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 11:45
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).


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Posted By: MING-LOYALIST
Date Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 21:50
Afuzhiluo (阿伏至罗).
He led the Gaoche people from baikal region to xinjiang fleeing from Rouran domination in 487AD.

Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 07:33
Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
 
 
why is bumin khan also called tuman by the chinese?

Posted By: EGETÜRK
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 10:11
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).
saka's were Türk,First exemple of Türk Sagu's(ağıt) was written by sakas to Alper Tunga's death...(after b.c 600's)

first paragraph

@divan-i lugatit Türk             @Türkiye Türkish

Alp Er Tunga öldi mü               Alp er Tunga öldü mü?

Isız acun kaldı mu                   Issız acun kaldı mı?

Özlek öçin aldı mu                   ödlek öcünü aldı mı?

Emdi yürek yırtılur                   Şimdi yürek yırtılır....


b.c 600's and a.c 2006...We're still keeping our language...


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The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...

Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:16

No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.



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Either make a history or become a history.

Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 10:20
Originally posted by DayI


Originally posted by barbar


Not necesseraly there is only Chinese documents to refer. There are Turkic legends. Alp Er Tunga (might be the same person Efresiyap as mentioned in Iranic legends) might be the first Turkic leader. Tuman Tengriqut (the first Hun leader) might also be considered as the first greatest ruler.
yea but it isnt confirmed that Alp Er Tunga may an Scythian king or something, so legends doesnt count as a solid proof rather then written documents (most highly by chinese).


You know many writen documents are also based on the legends. Chinese systematical historical documents started from Hanshu. Simaqian also refered to many legends when he wrote about the earlier history.

Legends can't provide exact historical time period,but they are surely a very informative source about historical figures and deeds.


    

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Either make a history or become a history.

Posted By: EGETÜRK
Date Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 14:14
Originally posted by barbar


No, "Turki tillar divani" was writen in 11 century AD. The poem as this linguistical form can have a little longer history, but never as early as 6 century BC.

more info please...But i think,this poem is based to old datums or something like Alp Er Tunga epic...i do not hinhk that this poem is written @11 A.D


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The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...

Posted By: Tunga1980
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:05
Modu Chanyu was the oldest in Chinese scripts 

Posted By: Tunga1980
Date Posted: 05-Aug-2016 at 20:07
By the way Modu Chanyu in Turkish is the equivalent to METEHAN


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