Would you start creation or not?
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Philosophy and Theology
Forum Discription: Topics relating to philosophy
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13680
Printed Date: 12-May-2024 at 22:30
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Topic: Would you start creation or not?
Posted By: Paul
Subject: Would you start creation or not?
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 09:05
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This post is inspired by Dostoyevsky's, The Brother's Karamazov,
The question is,
Imagine, at the dawn of time, you have to face the same choice as God, to bring everything into existence or not.
In full knowledge of all the sufferering and cruelty that happenned over the millenia, poverty, genocide, famine, war, pestilance, torture.
...... would you create the world or avoid all this human suffering by not bringing about it's existence?
------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Replies:
Posted By: Giannis
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 09:28
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Yes, if we didn't exist god would have died from boredom! -------------  Give me a place to stand and I will move the world.
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Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 10:46
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Nope, biggest mistake He ever made, us. ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 11:05
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I think Paul that you made wrong question. Its not about "to be or not to be" but.... "what for?" ------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 12:17
| well a lot people prefer to live, even they suffer greatly. I think I would create |
Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 14:04
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Why not? Being "God" why should I have human moral values? Think of it, I create ... everything, then a guy (Dosty) asks a rethorical question? Well, he wouldn't had the ability to ask if I wouldn't have created him, would he?
How about "uncreating"? Maybe I should try Lev.
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Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 14:53
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No, actually I would destroy myself. Existence is madness. ------------- |
Posted By: Red Russian
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 21:56
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I would create them. But I would keep them in line! Adolf Hitler, Would of died at birth if i was god. ------------- 
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Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 31-Jul-2006 at 22:46
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God was(and still) great, but God want to be known and soo human had created. ------------- |
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 00:38
 
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Posted By: Jay.
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 00:53
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I agree ^ ------------- Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
Posted By: Mila
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 00:58
I'm not usually... "don't talk about this, it's against my religion"
...and I'm not even entirely sure if it is or not... but this question
makes me very, very uncomfortable.  Laugh if you like, I'm
laughing at myself... but wow? I'm afraid to answer, or even think on
it long enough to come up with one.EDIT: "Being afraid is good training for being a Republican, which also sucks." ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 02:32
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No, actually I would destroy myself. Existence is madness.
You cant, remember God cannot be destroyed, suicide is not a freedom of god.
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Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 04:20
I think he means it is no use being God if no-one worships you, so humankind had to be created for His ego and convenience.
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Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 07:04
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Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 08:52
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I would create, then after a prolonged period of existence make every
being who has ever existed vote collectively on whether, looking back
on their existence, they would rather existence had happened at all. If
the "no" votes are triumphant I destroy everything, including myself
(like I am gunna stick around with literally nothing, how boring).
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Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 09:42
I guess he is not the Almighty then? ------------- |
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 09:48
It's only natural. Religions are like that. When you begin to question them, you feel guilty. And you stop. You try to make yourself believe that you are not meant to understand the divinity. ------------- |
Posted By: Red Russian
Date Posted: 01-Aug-2006 at 23:31
This is very true, the people who can see teh truth are the ones who can overcome the guilt and see throught the lies! Our are all us Atheiest/agnostic's just seeing the lies through all the truth? Its hard to say. Questioning your faith is the best way to strengthen your faith. I was a christian, until i quetioned ym faith. I wish there was a god, but i jsut cannot see how there could be God has to have like a "Self Destruct" button on himself! -------------
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 02:39
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I would have made us, oh yes, the ultimate reality show is a world war after all. But I would have been FAR more creative with what I was working abd put at least 5 sentient species on Earth rather than just one. And have some others not too far off in the cosmos.
Oh yeah, and there would be no fat people! ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 11-Aug-2006 at 16:54
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One question which desrves to be asked is whether suffering and cruelty are really just human constructs. Not that I'm defending organized religion (which I'm not), but I'm just playing devil's advocate (no pun intended)... Let's pretend that the world is indeed created by some sort of divinity who is omnipotent and omniscient. To this divinity, suffering and cruelty are just human interpretations of phenomenona which in themselves may or may not (probably the latter) carry any moral meaning. In fact, divine morality may be inexistent (only a human construct), or so different for an omnipotent and omniscient divinity that it is unrecognizable and uncomprehensible to us as humans. To me, the true tragedy of creation (if that is indeed what happened), is that the creator divinity for all intents and purposes does not care, at least not in the way we humans understand. ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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Posted By: Cezar
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2006 at 06:16
A perfect creation would be boring. If it's perfect, there would be nothing happening to make it entertaining. But if you make poor and wealthy, sick and healthy, generous and greedy, and so on, you certainly are in for a good show. Is there any fun in watching a Star Wars without Vader or Palpatine? Star Wars Universe is some kind of creation. And it is perfect for not being perfect.
There is no tragedy of the creation Decebal, it's just the fun of it and the envy of us humans that we can't do anything about it.
BTW if there is no creation, therefore infinity, where did this ∞ came from
 ? |
Posted By: BMC21113
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 04:06
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-This is a very difficult question, so where to begin........ -Let us first ask the question of "why" would/should have the creation taken place? I believe the answer to this question is to simply experience. An omnipotent God, one whom transcends space, time, matter, energy, anything and everything imaginable and unimaginable for the human mind, creates to experience itself. From the wonders of gravity and a newly forming star to a beautiful rendition of Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata," God would experience that within the infinite potential that is God rather than that which could never be if not for God. We as humans are part of that creation and therefore are one with the creator. It is unimaginable to the human mind, the existence of something which is beyond existence. That which is everything and nothing all in the same. As the creation experiences, the creator shares the experience because the creator IS the experience. I use the term "experience" here very broadly; that is, experience not only refers to experience in a human sense but in a universal sense. Imagine all dimensions (perhaps many more than we are aware of) as a mere extension to the infinite. Think of wonders here on Earth. What would it be like to experience a thunderstorm as the thunderstorm? The pure adrenaline as a base jumper makes a leap? The energy of the crowd when a winning home run is belted to win a World Series. Imagine experiencing everything that is with no limits or boundaries. Knowing everything and experiencing everything that was, is, or will be........an infinite wisdom that underlies existence and non-existence. From this viewpoint, in the simplest of terms, we have to conclude that existence is much more exciting than non-existence.....
-Now, given all of the suffering throughout the existence of humanity, should the creation have taken place? I believe the answer is yes. One of the greatest gifts that God could give to man would be that of free-will. This means we have the power and understanding to make decisions and live as you wish to live. A God which transcends anything and everything already knows what you are going to do, but you always have and will have the free-will to make your own choices.
-These are just some basic ideas to generate some more thought on the topic........
-This may be a good time to recommend a very good book. It is entitled "The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch. This book is well written and informative and serves as a great reference point for those who may be looking for something beyond organized religion and strict reductionist science and gives us another way of attempting to answer these questions. ------------- "To be prepared for war is one of the most effective means of preserving peace"-George Washington "The art of war is, in the last result, the art of keeping one's freedom of action."-Xenophon |
Posted By: Serge L
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 09:46
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I would have created the world, but different from what it actually is.
Let
Let's say I would have took the care to be sure all creatures would have liked their lives.
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Posted By: The Philosopher
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 16:52
| well, first of all, when you think of it, asking if you would have started creation is a somewhat ridiculous question. God trancends all time and space, thus, He knew that we would mess up. Obviously, if God trancends all time, He knows what is going to happen next right? So, if God himself, who knows all, and is the wisest in existence, and is in Him is all understanding still created us, knowing all of the strife that would come of our creation, all the death, famine, and the eventual destruction of his perfect creation. But, living in a perfect creation, the way it was meant to be by God, would not have been boring. We all would not care about all the things that we consider "fun" today, thus, would we not have a different definition of all that we know of today? So, if God still created us all, knowing what would happen, how can we, as mere humans, say that we would not then?? |
Posted By: The Philosopher
Date Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 16:53
| also, Serge L, if everything was perfect, would not every creature enjoy their lives?? |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 00:48
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God would definitely invent us, because he needs something to play around, to pass his time & something to make him feel great. Otherwise who would worship him ?
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: The Philosopher
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 16:49
| The reason God created us wasn't because He was bored, far from it, He could have all the fun He wanted in Heaven. He created us because He wanted to be worshiped. but, then again, He created the angels before us, and do not the angels also worship God?? |
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 17:42
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If I had a baby, and raised the baby to worship me. By the time it was 3 years old, I'd be surrounded by social workers, on criminal charges and probably make the sunday papers.
------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: The Philosopher
Date Posted: 22-Sep-2006 at 16:54
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yes probably......
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