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Jihad against the turks

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Steppe Nomads and Central Asia
Forum Discription: Nomads such as the Scythians, Huns, Turks & Mongols, and kingdoms of Central Asia
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12191
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 20:07
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Topic: Jihad against the turks
Posted By: xi_tujue
Subject: Jihad against the turks
Date Posted: 25-May-2006 at 11:23
What do you think about this link.
 
I was well insulted, about the incorrectnes
 
http://www.historyofjihad.org/turkey.html - www.historyofjihad.org/turkey.html
 
This site is one of the most racist and historaly incorrect everAngry
 
And it's not only about the turks what pisses me off. They "attack" everyone and make the muslims look like jew& christian hating Jihad making I don't know there are no words for this (no offence only a extreme nationalist arab would agree with this no offence i'm a muslim to but not that one)


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage



Replies:
Posted By: Feramez
Date Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:02
Oh God, I wonder how many idiots out there will believe this web site too?

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For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-
http://groups.myspace.com/TurkWorld - TÜRK DÜNYASI Forum, join today.


Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 25-May-2006 at 20:35
That website is ridiculous...

It marks every single thing done by muslims against anyone else as Jihad


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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 05:29

That's what i wanted to point out.

thats why I think that the web is a dangerous thing.


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: Belisarius
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 11:29
I guess it all depends on the individual to filter out what's real and what's complete bs.

From what I understand, a jihad can only be called by an Imam. Am I mistaken?


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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 26-May-2006 at 12:57
No i don't think so An Imam is just a priest.
by the caliph or something like that but they don't exist anymore.
 


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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 07:28
A jihad can be called by anyone, but people only follow those who have authority or influence.
 
No offence, but u need to improve the quality of websites u quote. Friendly advice, if u come across trash, dont post from it.


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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 09:05
I don't know if you said that to me but I was pointing out that this site was trash. Didn't you read the original post

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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 10:11
Originally posted by xi_tujue

I don't know if you said that to me but I was pointing out that this site was trash. Didn't you read the original post
 
I did read the original and that is why i said dont post from trash. I mean what possible benefit could we derive from discussing rubbish. Consider the possibility of everyone citing a rubbish site and seeking a review. BTW, welcome to AE.Smile


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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 11:59
I mean what possible benefit could we derive from discussing rubbish

pity for Turks?


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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 12:21
ahah don't get it started it isn't just about the turks it's about all what's on that page

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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 14:50
Originally posted by mamikon

I mean what possible benefit could we derive from discussing rubbish

pity for Turks?
 
Mamikon, my dear fellow. last comment a bit personal, a bit unnecessary.Wink


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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 14:56
Embarrassed

do you see any other "benefit" for posting the site here?

as you have said, what would happen if everyone brought trash here to review?


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Posted By: Turkoglu
Date Posted: 27-May-2006 at 15:25
well we are waiting here, they can come any time.

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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 06:17
Originally posted by Feramez

Oh God, I wonder how many idiots out there # - will believe this # - web site too?
Far too many.
 


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Posted By: Dampier
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 18:18
If only that site was a book, then I could burn it for being the nonsense it is. When will people learn?

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Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 21:20
Alright, I will be in the minority here, but I have to say this: the interpretation of the historial events and the general bias of the site is rabidly anti-muslim. However, the majority of the historical events which are detailed in the article are factually true, it is only the bias and the language that make this site a poor historical description. The Arabs did consider their early wars of conquest, at least until the Ummayads, as jihads meant to spread Islam to the unbelievers, whether they were zoroastrians like the Persians, christan like the Byzantines or pagan like the Turks or the Sindhis. The Turks did take a long time to be islamized and certainly religion played an important role in their wars with muslim rulers before their conversion.
 
Yes I do disagree with the anti-islamic bias of the site. But we should all remember that history as we know it always contains an element of bias. History as it is taught to fundamentalist muslims is likely to be just as biased and inaccurate as this site.


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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi



Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 19-Jun-2006 at 14:33
what I wanted to pointout is that this site quotes that the turks are islamised by force due to the arab conquest. and not that they gruadually adopted Islam

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I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 08:46

The wars of conquest were fought to increase the polity of Islam and spread the message of Islam to get an audience for prospective converts. But the conversion itself was not by force.

Hence the jizya, i.e keep your religion and just pay the tax. If no tax then fight, not convert. The carrot; dont fight and dont pay tax, just become muslim.



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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 09:05
well wrong infact it is, dont pay and fight for state,  or pay and dont  fight.
 
not one of best carrot I saw.


Posted By: Battle_Hymn
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 07:51
Jihad aganist Turks ?
 
lol ..
 
if they dont know what does mean Jihad its their problem ..
 
We covered them aganist crusader armies many times..
 
Between 651-751 Turks had some problems but they had rich countries this is why they attacked to our cities..
 
We helped them at 751 ''Talas War''
 
Hz Muhammed (SAV) have so many hadith about Turks too ..
 
They need to send medicine and food to Palastine before swearin Mustafa Kemal ATATURK..
 
Ppl waitin help from us not from their rich brothers.
 
i'm %100 sure writer of this site not muslim he is an agent ^^


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This nation has never lived without independence. We cannot and shall not live without it. Either independence or death.
Ataturk



Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 22-Jun-2006 at 18:00
Originally posted by Mortaza

well wrong infact it is, dont pay and fight for state,  or pay and dont  fight.
 
not one of best carrot I saw.
 
I cannot relate to the usefulness of the carrot, as for jizya a similar obligatory tax was on Muslims namely 'the zakat'. It was thought more honourable to pay zakat than jizhya, hence the incentive for converting to Islam. BTW this does not relate to the turks, who were dominant when they became muslims and continued with collecting zakat and jizya. The practise was briefly corrupted by the Ummayads at some point and it led to their downfall. Similarly, I had heard from an afghan of an oral tradition that their forefathers refused to pay zakat to some new collectors of it(sorry, no hsitorical knowledge of who the collectors were), when they saw the oppulence of the attire of the new from the modesty of the old.
 
as to what is jizya--> http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9043677?tocId=9043677 - http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9043677?tocId=9043677
 
As for the imposition of the jizya and zaka and the tithes-->
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/017.mmt.html - http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muwatta/017.mmt.html
 
So, it goes like this-->
Call upon them to convert to Islam. If convert no fighting, pay zakat.
if they do not convert, must  pay the jizya[poll tax].
If they refuse to pay the jizya, fight them.
 
Maybe someone with abetter understanding of the issue can throw some light on it.
 
i.e, The fighting is if they dont pay jizya, not if they dont convert.
 


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 23-Jun-2006 at 02:18
inshallah, very good article, provides a lot of important historical information.
 
 



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