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What Is Jihad----According to Quran
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Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What Is Jihad----According to Quran
    Posted: 12-Oct-2006 at 01:25
Tipu, many of the Sultans.

Poor people were not taxed as Aurenzeb wanted to extract money from the wealth hindu merchant classes to fund his wars.

You are wrong, one of the main reasons why the maratha peasants sided with Shivaji was that they were poor & had to pay this double taxes.
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 14:12
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

The difference between Spain and Bulgaria or Romania, is the reconquista.  Muslim Spain was a harmoneous culture where all three faiths mixed freely. When the Christians retook it however they forceful ejected or converted all the muslims and Jews. That atrocity has not been forgotten, and the spanish government would do well to start reconcilation programs. The goal of guys like Hamas's threats to retake spain is infact to 'avenge' the reconquista. The Balkans were taken in a political war and retaken in a political war where religion was not a factor, (note Bosnia and Albania)

It is highly likely that fleeing Greeks aided the European Renaissance but a major cause of the Renaissance was the Europeans contact with advanced muslim civilisations in the middle east and spain. A significant amount of renaissance discoveries were in fact discovered in arabic libraries. It is after all called re-search.
 
Omar, I think you're oversimplifying the situation in the Iberian Peninsula. The Almoravids and the Almohads are too good and well-known examples of Islamic Iberia not being so tolerant. And I have read historical texts written by Moorish scribes. They show a society in which people of different faiths tolerated each other.  And sometimes barely.
 
As for the Renaissance, it was initiated by the Greeks and by the growing awareness that the Italians had of their past (the Renaissance, remember, began as an Italian thing). As for the Moorish contribution to European civilization, I've already stated that it is overhyped. European monks and monasteries (which contained many classic works) were perhaps more important. 
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 20:22
Originally posted by Degredado

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

The difference between Spain and Bulgaria or Romania, is the reconquista.  Muslim Spain was a harmoneous culture where all three faiths mixed freely. When the Christians retook it however they forceful ejected or converted all the muslims and Jews. That atrocity has not been forgotten, and the spanish government would do well to start reconcilation programs. The goal of guys like Hamas's threats to retake spain is infact to 'avenge' the reconquista. The Balkans were taken in a political war and retaken in a political war where religion was not a factor, (note Bosnia and Albania)

It is highly likely that fleeing Greeks aided the European Renaissance but a major cause of the Renaissance was the Europeans contact with advanced muslim civilisations in the middle east and spain. A significant amount of renaissance discoveries were in fact discovered in arabic libraries. It is after all called re-search.
 
Omar, I think you're oversimplifying the situation in the Iberian Peninsula. The Almoravids and the Almohads are too good and well-known examples of Islamic Iberia not being so tolerant. And I have read historical texts written by Moorish scribes. They show a society in which people of different faiths tolerated each other.  And sometimes barely.
 
As for the Renaissance, it was initiated by the Greeks and by the growing awareness that the Italians had of their past (the Renaissance, remember, began as an Italian thing). As for the Moorish contribution to European civilization, I've already stated that it is overhyped. European monks and monasteries (which contained many classic works) were perhaps more important. 
 
I second that Degredado. Lets not also forget that Islam did preserve some culture that was for a time in Europe missing. But the culture and advancement that they held on to was largely western(ie. Greek) so a lot of this "advancement" was just basically what was already well known long before in western culture that was lost. Im sure the Moors came up with some of their own original technology but at the core of this "advancement" is western philosophy and culture. 
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 20:41
Wow, I posted that a long time ago. Yeah I've learnt alot since then.
Even if Arab contrabution is overhyped you shouldn't diminish the Moorish and Arab contrabution to the Renaissance. Even civilisation (as in living in cities) in europe is a gradual westward move of middle eastern ideas.

btw, Greeks are not western. Particularly when these Greeks were often living in Alexandria or Damascus. To associate the advances of Greeks with western europe is completely incorrect. To associate them with the middle east is much more plausable. As Greeks & Romans did rule the ME for 1000 years, and then another 500 under the Ottomans.
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 21:02
You are correct they did rule the middle-east but are you actually saying that the Greek contributions are more considered "Eastern" than "Western civilization"???Confused
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 21:23
They should probably be considered Greek. Or even better, the contribution of that person.
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arch.buff View Drop Down
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Posts: 606 		  Quote arch.buff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Oct-2006 at 21:42

Heck im with ya Omar, lets do away with these pesky titles and classifications!!!Big smile
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 11:06
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Even civilisation (as in living in cities) in europe is a gradual westward move of middle eastern ideas.
 
First, I would like to ask pardons for moving off topic. O.k., now for the response....Geek
 
Omar, people in western Europe never stopped living in cities (the so-called 'Dark Ages' weren't as bad as the Greek Dark Ages of the dawning of the Iron Age). Cities just became less important, more rustic, and consequently, smaller. Urbanization would have increased as Europe became more stable after so many years of invasions (some of them by Muslim raiders).
 
BTW, I'm not denying the contribution that the Arab Empire had in preserving and spreading old knowledge. I just don't like it when it's overhyped. Especially with so many other players in the field (do you know how many times I've heard historians blame the Renaissance on the Byzantines, Vikings and Mongols? It gets contradictory who did exactly what)
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 18:21
Omar, people in western Europe never stopped living in cities (the so-called 'Dark Ages' weren't as bad as the Greek Dark Ages of the dawning of the Iron Age). Cities just became less important, more rustic, and consequently, smaller. Urbanization would have increased as Europe became more stable after so many years of invasions (some of them by Muslim raiders).

I meant eariler than that.
Romanization is the beginning of city dwelling europe (debatable, but Romanization was the source of much of modern europes culture), and the Romans were heavily influenced by Greeks, who were heavily influenced by the eastern mediterrainian. Romans themselves may have been from Troy in modern Turkey.
Not to mention christianity.
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Cezar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 15:15
OK tet's try to summ it up:
  1. Jihad ,according to Quran, (for those who are thouroughly studying it) is mainly a defensive posture for the faithful.
  2. There are some Islamic Religious Leaders than claim that Jihad  is actually the sacred duty of every muslim to ... eventually turn everybody else to Islamism or kill them if they don't want to.
  3. Not all muslims are able/capable of getting the meaning of the Prophet (Allah?) words written in the Quran so they basically rely on what the IRL are telling them.
  4. Most non muslim are certainly not interested in studying the Quran so they do not have a correct image of what Jihad is meant to be.
  5. The non muslim are mainly seeing the IRL and their followers threatening their way of life and pretending that they're on a Jihad.
  6. Eventually, people who are not aware/don't have the time/are ignorants (maybe by necessity not by choice) of the Quran are ending up with the idea that all muslims are terrorists/murderers/crescenters (similar to crusaders) that have just a point: make everyone muslim and let noone who doesn't embrace the faith be killed and rot in hell.

Hey. that would fit the Christians too but that would be another topic, wouldn't it?
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:02
I think thats quite an accurate summary Cezar.
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