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1570 Cyprus Capaign, Modern Greek Military Plans:Odd similarities

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Jalisco Lancer View Drop Down
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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1570 Cyprus Capaign, Modern Greek Military Plans:Odd similarities
    Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 23:04


Guys, please stick to the original topic and do not turn it in an endless, pointless discussion. Otherwise, I will close it.
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Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner View Drop Down
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 12:54

Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Wasn't Ottoman naval power waning by 1570 as well as Venetian?

Venice had been in decline since 1499-1500, with their defeat at the hands of the Ottomans at Zonchio and Lepanto (1st Battle).  They were able to hang on mainly because of their superior military technology (ships, guns, etc) and self-serving diplomacy.

I wouldn't say that the Ottomans were in decline in 1570, but they certainly were immediately after Lepanto.  The new fleet they built the following year was far inferior to the previous one (i.e., it was made of green wood), and they were NEVER able to replace all the skilled manpower (captains, pilots, sailors, free oarsmen, naval archers, etc) that was lost on Oct 7, 1571.  Their navy was simply never the same after that.

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2005 at 13:01

That's it.I will emigrate to Mars.

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 11:41
Originally posted by strategos

During the course of 1957, TMT pressured the Turkish Cypriots into withdrawing from any co-operative ties they had with the Greek Cypriots and, on the whole, they were successful; this policy later became known as the `from Turk to Turk policy. Such encouragement was entirely alien to the co-operation and quiet existence which had always prevailed between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but was necessary to sow the seeds of partition. A similar policy was followed in Istanbul, organised by the Turkish National Student Federation, which had worked closely with Kibris Turktur in its planning of the anti-Greek riots there back in 1955.

During the course of 1957, TMT pressured the Turkish Cypriots into withdrawing from any co-operative ties they had with the Greek Cypriots and, on the whole, they were successful; this policy later became known as the `from Turk to Turk policy. Such encouragement was entirely alien to the co-operation and quiet existence which had always prevailed between Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but was necessary to sow the seeds of partition.



I think this thread is very interesting, and I do not wish for it to be closed so I will try to remain as respectful as possible to the erroneous claims presented above by stratego, though I cannot help but express my opinion that statements like "TMT pressured Turks to leave their homes and the government" are utter lies.

This is just another version of Turkish Cypriots made Greek Cypriots attack inncocent Tutkirh Cypriots in their homes with the specific aim of driving them from those homes and from the government, and not actually Greek Cypriot irregular and regular armed bands that were turning up in Turkish villages and using violence and force and murder to drive Turkish Cypriots from thier homes.

The primary reasons for the MASS exodous of the Turkish Cypriot population into enclaves which constituted less than 5% of the island was not TMT, it was Greek Cypriot aggression and violence towards the Turkish Cypriot community, encouraged and allowed and sponsored by the Greek Cypriot state and the Greek millitary junta. 

Turkish Cypriot withdrew from a government where the Greek Cypriot elements had refused to implemt agreemnts made in the 60 neogitations and ignored a supreme court rulling against the Greek Cypriot side. How can one continue to participate in a partnership government where one side reneges on agreements and illegaly ingores it's own supreme court rulings?

Also the Turkish Cypriots made a formal request in 65 via the UN to return to their positions. This was outright refused by the then all Greek Cypriot controlled 'Republic of Cyprus' unless they accepted without any negotiation Makarios' 13 proposed ammendments to the constiution that would have robbed TC of 95% of their rights under the consitituion, and would have brought the island one step closer to union with Greece.

A detailed narrative of the events that lead to the end of the Turkkish Cypriots in the government is given in Cyprus Conflict
http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/narrative-main-%203.htm

The partition of the island was not due to some inherent desire of Turkish Cypriots to partition it, it was due to the Greek Cypriot desire for ENOSIS and attempt to turn it into another Greek province and their refusal to share it with Turkish Cypriots. If Greek Cypriots did not seek ENOSIS (union with Greece), I am confident that the Republic of Cyprus in the form agreed by both sides would have remained intact, most of the intercommunal violance would have been avoided, and Turkish soldiers would have never set a foot on the island.


Edited by bg_turk - 03-Jul-2006 at 12:06
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