moder turkmens of turkmenistan

i made this topic to introduce the turkmen people it's hard to talk about the "turkmen" cuz turkic people still didn't make clear Define for turkmen well i introduce turkmen in the way i feel is right i hope i don't it's make other turkish friends upset

TURKMEN is a nation of turkic people who change the history of middle east . the first arrival of turkmens are going back to the time of arabs Caliphate when their power was in it's peak about 7th century

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubayd-Allah_ibn_Ziyad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Mu%27tasim

but stronger weave came with ghaznavid and seljuk  and later they make khwarazm shah ottoman safavid afsharid qajar empire qajar and ottoman collapse  in same time at ww1 since than this nation didn't recover it's former power. the people of turkey azerbijan and turkmenistan are one nation with one language and one culture and tradition . this is a 24 tribes of turkmens (oghuz turks) which make the nation im talking about !


Kayı^[[22] (founders of the Ottoman dynasty and Ghaznavids Dynasty and Jandarids)

• Bayat (founders of the Qajar dynasty, Dulkadirids, Fuzûlî )
• Alkaevli
• Karaevli
• Yazır
• Döger (founders of the Artuqid dynasty)
• Dodurga
• Yaparlı
• Afshar(founders of the Afsharid dynasty Nader Shah and Karamanid dynasty )
• Kızık
• Begdili (founders of the Khwarazmian dynasty )
• Kargın
• Bayandur (founders of the Ak Koyunlu )
• Pecheneg
• Çavuldur^[23]
• Chepni
• Salur (founders of the Kara Koyunlu dynasty and Kadi Burhan al-Din and Salgurlular State in Iraq Salar people )
• Eymür
• Alayuntlu
• Yüreğir (founders of the Ramadanid dynasty)
• İgdir
• Büğdüz
• Yıva
• Kınık (founders of the Seljuk Empire ^[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oghuz_Turks#Traditional_tribal_organization

ok let me now introduce modern day turkmens of turkmenistan 

turkmens live in turkmenistan since the time of their arrival . they are mainly from afshar bigdili igdir eymur yemrali Çavuldur but they no longer exist anymore (Except afsahrs and Çavuldur) they main turkmens of turkmenistan are from Salgur tribe . Salgur are most important tribe turkmen which write the history of iran their main territory was fars province having shiraz as capital ruled by seljuk royal family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fars_Province

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salghurids_(Atabegs_of_Fars)

after mongols destroy the khwarazm shah salurs surrendered without fight  for this mongols spare them and take Salgur force to sack the baghdad for this Salgur become most hated tribes who dishonor the islam with aiding mongols but this is not all story they was unlucky cuz the daughter of Sa'd II, Abish Khatun was given the title of Atabegate of Fars. She was the sole ruler of Fars for one year whereupon she married, Mengu Temur, eleventh son of Hulegu from this moment we see Salgur just jump to turkmenistan and disappear from fars . im guessing that marriage  start the turkmen rebellion those Salgur who was able fled to turkey (turkey was turkish stronghold) and the rest crushed than mongols decade to Exile them to very far away lands

this is sub tribe of Salgur

• Usta
• Yomud (Demiroğlu)
• Hızır
• Karamanlı
• Akkoyunlu (Akçakoyunlu)
• Ersarı (Aksarıklı)
• Karakoyunlu (Karacakoyunlu)
• Kul oğulları (tekeoğlu,tekeloğlu,tekelioğlu) tekke
  

akkoyunli karakoyunlu usta and tekke was core tribe of kizilbash army . today turkmens in iran and turkmenistan  are mostly from Salgur but still none Salgur exist like goklans which we blieve the are native turkmens  and still some salgur exist in iraq and they speak exactly the way we do

for more info about the turkmen jewllery u can visit this site

http://www.metmuseum.org/en/exhibitions/listings/2012/turkmen-jewelry

mr gul in turkmenistan

Originally posted by Ollios what about Azerbaijan and Safevis?

In Azerbaijan there are all 24 Oghuz tribes aswell (most of these tribes of course became dissolved by time, joined others, pretty much the only tribe out of these original 24 tribes that seems to have lived to this day with their name is the Afshars). In historical sense we kinda do know which tribes dominated what area (for instance 17-18th century). Afshars populated Mughan steppe and Qarabagh (other tribes such as Baharlu and Qaramanlu also had a strong presence in Qarabagh), Qajars populated Ganja area, and above them were tribes such as Shamsaddinlu, Qazakhlu, Borchalu. Now of course these are just fraction of dozens of different tribes. I don't really know the tribes in eastern parts of Azerbaijan in detail, but we do know that Terekemes (Turkmens) populated these areas aswell.

This is accounts of the 18th century Russian traveller (originally of German origin) Johann Anton Güldenstädt about Azerbaijani Turks, the geographical spread in this quote are the present north-east and central-north areas.

http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokumenty/Kavkaz/XVIII/1760-1780/Gildenstedt/text6.htm

TEREKEMENSKIE OR TRUHMENSKIE

They occupy the eastern foot of the Caucasus Mountains, the western shore of the Caspian Sea near Boynaka, Derbent and Utamisha and also own all the southern foothills of the Caucasus Alazan or Kakheti to the Caspian Sea. Their districts there are Cuba, Altipara, Tokuspara, Miskindzhal, Hinakut, Krishbudah Chamakh and all of Shirvan, they all have a common master in the person of Fath Ali Khan, whose tenure extends to Salliana. With the given border following truhmenskie district in the west: Shaka, Caballo, Agdash and Arash, who also have a ruler, now it is Hussain Khan, son of Haji Dzhalabi having a residence in the town of Nukha.

Perhaps we need to look at defters of Safavid and Ottoman period for better results about tribes in Azerbaijan (their names, location, areas), now of course I don't have acces to such type of information. Halaçoğlu has used these kind of sources to shed light on Turkmen tribes in Anatolia in deep detail, perhaps we need a similar work in Azerbaijan.

Southern Azerbaijan is a different case, but there are still Turkmen tribes there that have preserved their identity and even nomadic lifestyle, such as Shahsevens.

Qara-Qoyunlu and Agh-Qoyunlu are very important in history of Azerbaijani Turks, but these were not actual tribes, rather names of two confederations that had united several different tribes. I would say that they have a important place among the ancestry of Azerbaijani Turks, and we do certainly know that they spoke the Oghuz tongue we call Azerbaijani Turkish today (or rather by its actual and real name, Turki).


Edited by Qaradag - 23-Jul-2013 at 14:55

 

Originally posted by ollios This also makes me Salgur too. I am Karamanlı, According to family stories.

well meet my salgur brother ! u know what salgurs sub tribes are more famous than salgur itself

 

Originally posted by ollios Which is the first Turkic place in Turkmenistan?

well im not from turkmenistan it's better ask it from some one from turkmenistan  but i think it was dashoguz

 

Originally posted by ollios Tell us turkification of Turkmenistan

lol your ask hard questions :D . the first turks who came to turkmenistan was hun turks (ofc if u consider them as turk )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalite_Empire

they almost make sassanids as their vessel but they disappear by time the next groups was oghuz ofc . we didn't move from east to west but north to south !! the orginal lands of oghuz was north of caspian and aral sea btw in that era turks were largely use in arabs and tajiks army

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seb%C3%BCk_Tigin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alp_Tigin

until turks start to gain their indepence and and they make their own empire the ghaznavid empire
tarikh i yamini and tarikhe beyhaghi are 2 book remain from that era and with seljuk the strongest weave of turks came ( from this time turkmenistan become fully turkified ) when seljuks fighting each other begdili revolt against seljuk they allied them self with kazakhs . the kazakh princess married with Khwarezm Shah for this queen gets it's kazakh queen's guard which give her more power in politics shes power was so great that she could stand against the king himself !as the turkmen-kazakh pushing rest of turkmen tribes to west kazakh slowly come to khorasan  but this movement ended with mongol's storm from east ! 

turkmens came to turkmenistan with 4 weave  the native one (such as  igdir eymur yemrali Çavuldur begdili their sub tribe exist like goklan )

 the one who Exile like salgur (at least half of tekke and some part of ersari and yomud)

 the ones who timurlane bring them from turkey after he defeat the yildrim bayazyd  (rest of yomud and large number of tatars) after timur defeat ottomans he took a lot of turkmen and tatar as slave in his return to samarkand timur cross the tabriz there he meet with hight ranked imam for his favor timur free half of his slave and make them to serve that imam the other half freed in merv

the last weave was rest of tekke who come with shah ismail  from turkey to turkmenistan this is list of tekke sub tribes 

• Burgaz
• Akseki
• Bahşı (Bahşiş)
• Karaca
• Karatekeli
• Alseki
• Aziz (Aziziye Kınalı Yörükleri)
• Daş (Taş)
• Dongüç (Tongüç)
• Ayak (Kızılayak)
• Ötemiş (Ödemiş)
• Mırış
• Tutamış
• Karaahmet
• Toktamış
• Tufaz
• Gökçe
• Saçmaz

each of these sub tribe have several sub tribe this show what a great number  the tekke was

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marv

 

Originally posted by ollios Is there any different tribe in Turkmens like Uyghurs, Tatars or Karluks

not tribe but nation ! this is Demographics of Turkmenistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkmenistan#Ethnic_groups
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8

as u can see in turkmenistan so many nations live like Koryo-saram Kazakhs Tatars Bashkirs Karakalpaks Tajik Koreans Uyghur Chuvash Mari Kyrgyz just some of the nation in turkmenistan

 

Originally posted by ollios Did all Oghuz turn to Turkmen people? (I am talking about old general Turkmen)

  well shia ones tells we are turks and sunni ones says we are turkmen


Edited by yomud - 25-Jul-2013 at 16:22

Originally posted by yomud   Originally posted by ollios Is there any different tribe in Turkmens like Uyghurs, Tatars or Karluks not tribe but nation ! this is Demographics of Turkmenistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Turkmenistan#Ethnic_groups http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8 as u can see in turkmenistan so many nations live like Koryo-saram Kazakhs Tatars Bashkirs Karakalpaks Tajik Koreans Uyghur Chuvash Mari Kyrgyz just some of the nation in turkmenistan

I am not talking about today's nations. I am just thinking about change from Oghuz to Turkmen(before modern Turkmens)

Originally posted by ollios Turkmens = Turkmens Azeris Turks Turkmen = Oghuz + ? and  Oghuz = ? Can you fill the blanks?

well it's very hard to say something i have very  little info about it but i dont think turkmens could have any connection to Karluks cuz between turkmens area and Karluks there was 2 other nations live

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naimans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara-Khitan_Khanate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_the_Kara-Khitai

but Kipchaks is different story

Originally posted by ollios What about the name of Tatar?

  well since im not from turkmenistan i dont know anything about it but tatars  come here years b4 the russians and they still live in iran and turkmenistan so they have their own  village and palaces

turkmen charghadis part of turkmen culture when girls get merry they should wear charghad other wise they are freeto wear hijab