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erdal tigin
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Topic: Turan Federation Posted: 03-May-2005 at 11:02 |
I think the time has come to begin to form a united Turkic Federation composed of Turkic States.
First of all economic and cultural ties should strenghten and then studies should be carried out to deveolop a Turkic Union like Europian Union.
Then there comes the glourios Turan Federation .
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Feramez
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 12:51 |
I've been waiting for that day for as long as I can remember, but I don't see it happening any day soon. Hopefully in my life time. What do you think should be done about the language? Even though most of us can understand one another there's still too many differences to use just one of them for the whole union/nation. I was thinking to do what India does. Most states have their own local languages, most totaly different from one another. At the same time they have a national language which is used to communicate throughout the entire nation. I think this would be easier in our situation since our dialects are a lot closer to one another than Indias.
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Snafu
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 13:53 |
You can call it Turkapalooza!
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Kuu-ukko
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 15:05 |
What would the flag look like? The Federation wouldn't include Mongol & Tungus people, would it?
Edited by Kuu-ukko
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Feramez
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 15:22 |
The flag? No idea, I would include the Mongols, but would the Mongols want to join? The Tungus? I don't think there's enough of them.
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AyKurt
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 17:03 |
Also there is no Tunguz state for them to join.
Relaistically i dont see this happening although i think it is very
likely for the Central Asian republics to form a federation.
However local dictators might not agree. Fortunately it seems
like they might not last for much longer after the revolution in
Kyrgyzstan.
As for the language, i think the central asian republics are close
enough for them to understand one another, i cant remember where i read
it but i remember Nursultan Nazarbayev the president of Kazakhstan once
remarked that the Kazakhs and Uzbeks speak the same language.
Kyrgyz is even closer to Kazakh than Uzbek is.
I think the best solution would be to have a standardised official
language for administrative and national issues and regional dialects
for regional affairs and for education.
As for Turkey, i think the most realistic Union for her would be one with Azerbaijan. In an Oguz Union. Oguzeli.
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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Janissary
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 18:29 |
What about Tatarstan?
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AyKurt
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Posted: 03-May-2005 at 20:41 |
Well Tatarstan is not an independent state therefore it cant really join a union unless it seceded from the RF.
I think for Tatarstan should look towards forming closer ties with the Turkic regions in the Volga-Ural region.
First of Tatarstan is only a part of the Tatar homeland, it comprises
basically the City of Kazan region. More Tatars live outside of
Tatarstan than inside. Tatars should look towards trying to
preserve and enhance their identity outside of Tatarstan in
historically tatar lands.
There has been talk of trying to merge some Russian regions and it was
proposed that Chuvashia merge with Ulyanovsk region. However this
was opposed by the Chuvash because of fears they may lose alot of their
powers as an autonomous republic. Historically Ulyanovsk was a
Chuvash region and the first Chuvash autonomy uncluded it.
I think the 3 Turkic Autonomous Republics should merge. Bashkortostan, Chuvashia and Tatarstan.
This merger shoudl also include other regions which historically were tatar, Chuvash and Bashkir lands.
20% of Ulyanovsks population are Tatars and Chuvash.
16% of Orenburg (historically Bashkir and Kazakh) population are Tatars Bashkirs, Kazakhs and Chuvash.
8% of Samarans are Tatar and Chuvash and 12% of Chelyabinsk's population are Tatars and Bashkirs.
Although in these Russian regions the Turkic peoples are now a
minority, they are large minorities and they are also historically
Turkic lands.
Ultimately i think creating an Autonomous Region in the Volga would be
the ideal for the Turkic peoples there and a constitution which would
inshrine the rights of the indigenous languages would be the best
option for them.
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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Yiannis
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Posted: 04-May-2005 at 04:17 |
Originally posted by erdal tigin
I think the time has come to begin to form a united Turkic Federation composed of Turkic States. |
Ozal tried this, but failed woefully when he couldn't deliver what he promished (mainly financial support and ties to the west).
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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erdal tigin
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Posted: 04-May-2005 at 06:23 |
It will be a hard and long way to form such a Turkic union.From my point of wiev it wont be possible before 30 -40 years .I think before politcal and geographical unification an economical and trade pact would be useful. Economic and culturel ties will be the catalysor solving the problems between the Turkic states. Universities and student transfers and the communacition and transportion developments will strenghten the ties.
Perpahs the seeds of the of the federation can be planted by merging states two by two.For example Turkey and Azerbeijcan can form a federation while Kazakhistan and Uzbekistan can do the same .After some years Turkmenistan can merge with 1st and Krygizistan merge the latter.And then the two feds can merge.This could be a solution
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Kuu-ukko
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Posted: 04-May-2005 at 07:40 |
I once went to see a Tatar folkmusic concert, and it was bewildering! I was fascinated!
There was this Crimean Tatar Enver Izmailov, he was awesome. Then there
was Aidar Feyzerahmanov Ensemble, that danced and played beautifully.
Coo....... My favourite was a dance called Kubyzly bij, where they
played a kobza, a harp held in the mouth. *Just passing by..... *
Feramez, why would the Mongols and Tungus be included? They don't belong to the same language family, or he same exact gene pool, do they? What would be the motive then?
AyKurt, has the merging happened in Chuvash? The same problem is facing
the Mari, former name Cheremish(a Finno-Ugric tribe living in the Volga region). Sad, people being percecuted because
of who they are....
Thank you and goodbye.
Edited by Kuu-ukko
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Jagatai Khan
Chieftain
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Posted: 04-May-2005 at 10:01 |
Wrong place for thse posts.
Guys you should speak these in History Role Forum.
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 05-May-2005 at 12:20 |
A Pan-Turkic union would be great. Not to sure about the union including Tungus and Hus though. The should Turkistan. The Turkey flag would be best as the red represents Turkish blood, doubt other Turkic peoples would be pleased with that. So a flag with a moon and a star with any of the folowing colours red, green, white or blue as they all have conections with Turks
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 05-May-2005 at 13:10 |
I don't think this is a good idea. Why should we in Turkey, an aspiring democracy, form a union with the dictatorships of Central Asia? Only thing we have in common is language. Even the EU is better.
A Turkic Federation is politically impossible anyway. Turanism is nothing but a nationalist wet-dream, and it will stay that way.
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aknc
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Posted: 05-May-2005 at 14:02 |
I disagree.Why shouldn't countries help each other?
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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aknc
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Posted: 05-May-2005 at 14:05 |
federation is diffrent,i know,but it will be helpful
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"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
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Guests
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Posted: 05-May-2005 at 15:45 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
A Pan-Turkic union would be great. Not to sure about the union including Tungus and Hus though. The should Turkistan. The Turkey flag would be best as the red represents Turkish blood, doubt other Turkic peoples would be pleased with that. So a flag with a moon and a star with any of the folowing colours red, green, white or blue as they all have conections with Turks |
In fact, the red color represents west, and western Turks. Sku blue reprsents east, and all Turks. So sky blue will be a more suitable color for such a flag. Green has no connection to Turks, but Islam.
I think Mongols and Tungus shouldnt be included in such a union, and neither they would accept it, at least Russia wouldnt.
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AyKurt
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Posted: 07-May-2005 at 09:53 |
Bakiyev: Turkic World should Come Together
After
sending a delegation to Kyrgyzstan following the 'velvet revolution' in
March, Turkey has made a new start in bilateral relations and today
will be represented in Bishkek at the top-level.
Before Turkish
Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul's visit, Kyrgyzstan's Temporary President
and Prime Minister Kurmanbek Bakiyev told Zaman about the importance of
unity and integration of the Turkic world and emphasized that relations
between brother countries should be further developed. The Kyrgyz
leader noted that they gave huge importance to Gul's visit and he wants
to visit Turkey as soon as possible. "Our language, religion and
history are one. We need to perpetuate our close ties as brother and
friend countries," Bakivey said.
Bakiyev insisted that the "velvet revolution" had no external
links and the force behind the "Kyrgyz style" surprise revolution was
the "people" so he does not expect a government change on March 24. He
pointed out that ousted leader Askar Akayev's immediate evacuation of
the country facilitated the revolution. He said that Kyrgyzstan must
now make great efforts not to repeat the mistakes of the overthrown
government and that the critical presidential elections of July 10
should be held in a just, transparent and democratic atmosphere. Being
one of the most powerful two candidates to compete in the presidential
race, Bakiyev told Zaman that Kyrgyzstan's unity, prosperity and
stability are the priorities.
Bakiyev notes that as a new administration, they give big
importance to relations with their neighbors and he fully supports
Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev's proposal for a
"Commonwealth of Central Asia" within this framework. Unlike Ukraine
and Georgia, they had not received financial support from any power or
states, Bakiyev went on, saying, "The revolution in Kyrgyzstan was a
Kyrgyz style revolution unlike the rose or orange revolutions. The
revolution was financed by no one. It was made by the people, who were
reacting against the former administration," and referred to the people
as the real heroes of the revolution. Noting that they were proud that
they had brought freedoms of press and speech to the country after the
revolution; however, Bakiyev said they were unhappy about the lootings
and are working to ensure stability and peace. The Kyrgyz leader
concluded that they had made big steps to overcome the "insecure"
atmosphere in the country after the revolution.
05.05.2005 Mustafa Baskurt, Atif Ala Bishkek http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt=&hn=19172
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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AyKurt
Shogun
Joined: 24-Mar-2005
Location: Scotland
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Posted: 08-May-2005 at 12:28 |
Originally posted by Kuu-ukko
AyKurt, has the merging happened in Chuvash? The same problem is facing
the Mari, former name Cheremish(a Finno-Ugric tribe living in the Volga region). Sad, people being percecuted because
of who they are....
Thank you and goodbye.
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No Chuvashia has not merged with any region yet. However there
are plans to merge some regions already. It seems like there has
to be a referendum first. Some regions in Siberia have already
started plans to merge.
FAR EAST REGIONS TAKE FIRST STEP TOWARD MERGER
Kamchatka Oblast Governor Mikhail Mashkovtsev and
Koryak Autonomous Okrug Governor Oleg Kozhemyako on 5 May signed a
protocol on merging their two subjects of the federation, ITAR-TASS
reported. The speakers of both regions' legislatures also signed the
documents, the news agency reported. Officials said that the proposed
merger would allow the two regions to pursue a common
economic-development policy and "considerably enhance the gross
regional product and increase the volume of industrial production,"
according to an unnamed Kamchatka Oblast official. Referendums on the
proposed merger could be scheduled for October, the news agency
reported. RC
http://www.rferl.org/newsline/2005/05/1-RUS/rus-060505.asp
SIBERIAN TERRITORIES VOTE TO MERGE
Referendums on merging the Taimyr and Evenk
autonomous okrugs with Krasnoyarsk Krai were held in all three regions
on 17 April and all three were declared valid, Russian media reported.
According to preliminary results reported by RIA-Novosti, voters in all
three regions voted overwhelmingly in favor of the unification
proposal. In Taimyr, nearly 70 percent of voters favored the merger,
while 29.1 percent voted against. In Evenk, the vote was 79 percent in
favor and 20 percent opposed, while in Krasnoyarsk Krai, 92.25 voted in
favor and just 7.18 percent were opposed. According to Interfax, now
that the referendums have passed, the three territories will be
formally merged on 1 January 2007, at which point the administrations
of the autonomous okrugs will be dissolved and a new governor selected
for the combined territory. In September or October 2007, elections
will be held for a unified regional legislature. Federation Council
member Mikhail Odintsov, who represents the Evenk legislature, said
that the regions will continue to have six representatives in the
Federation Council until the end of 2007. RC
http://www.rferl.org/newsline/2005/04/1-RUS/rus-180405.asp
There are also plans to merge Adygya with the Krasnodar Province,
theres huge opposition to this from Adygya.
Russian Republics Oppose Larger Regions
The Russian
authorities' campaign to enlarge the regions has come under threat, as
a few regional leaders have started energetically resisting plans to
merge their regions with neighboring territories, writes Izvestia.
The
federal center is now discussing merging several regions, including the
Adygea republic with the Krasnodar territory (south); Karelia with the
Murmansk region (northwest); the Nenets autonomous area with the
Arkhangelsk region (north); and Kuzbass with the Altai territory and
the Altai republic in southern Siberia (southern Siberia).
Adygea
has reacted to the merger idea most painfully. President of Adygea
Khazret Sovmen has said it is a political provocation that could lead
to negative consequences given the socio-political situation in the
North Caucasus remains complicated. Local public organizations are
already preparing protests, claiming that the merger will fuel social
tensions and extremism.
Karelia believes that the projected
merger with the Murmansk region will eventually deprive the republic's
small ethnic groups (the Karels, Veps and Finns), of their unique
national identities. Anatoly Grigoryev, head of the Karelian Congress
public organization, believes Karelian culture will be destroyed.
Consequently, national Karelian districts would have no alternative but
to join Finland.
However, some people disagree. Anatoly
Tsygankov, chief of Karelia's center of political and social studies,
says the ethnic factor may be artificially linked with regional
mergers. For instance, Karelia is a national republic only due to
Soviet traditions. In reality, though, its residents do not consider
themselves to be a unique ethnic community. The ethnic factor is
important in other Russian territories where powerful ethnic
communities live, notably in the south, and is fraught with serious
conflicts. However, the "erosion" of ethnic groups would not cause
conflicts during regional mergers. On the contrary, the expert says,
this only threatens their comfortable and relatively secluded
existence.
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20050420/39709550.html
Edited by AyKurt
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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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