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Nick1986
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Topic: Black Army Posted: 25-Feb-2012 at 19:08 |
The Russian Civil War wasn't a simple struggle between Red and White Guards. In reality many forces were involved: the Blue, Green, Red, White and Black Armies. The last of these started out as a militia led by Ukrainian anarchist Nestor Makhno. His generals included the kickboxer Fedor Schuss, ex-convict Maria Nikiforova, and peasant-turned-revolutionary Simon Karetnik Bullock Collection
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Nick1986
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Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 19:23 |
Like Lenin, Makhno had no military experience. However, he was a brilliant tactician and made extensive use of the machine gun, providing one for every 20 men. He had four armored trains and a large cavalry detachment, including fast carts converted into troop carriers and armed with two machine guns
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 26-Feb-2012 at 22:41 |
Yes, the Ukrainian Anarchist Army. The Bolsheviks didn't acknowledge them as a legitimate movement, so they didn't have access to military resources, and got whatever they had from running Austro-Hungarian and German forces. Then the Bolsheviks used them agaisnt the Denikin and the Whites, only to crush them after that, when they didn't need anymore. Trotski made a treaty with them but the bolshevivs didn;t like it, and when finally accepted, a point that secured organization of independent grass-root committees was omitted. Finally the Black Army was repudiated and crushed, whoever could run to Romania. The biggest treachery was that when the Black Army finished with Wrangels' Whites in Crimea, and came to participate in a joint conference with the Reds, they got arrested and executed by them - how typical! Mahno ended up in Paris, writing " Organizational Platform of the General Union of Anarchists "; working as a carpenter, stage hand and in a factory. Here some of his works I dug up from my favorite Anarchist Library http://theanarchistlibrary.org/author-index.html
Edited by Don Quixote - 26-Feb-2012 at 22:44
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Nick1986
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Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 19:11 |
Thanks Don. How is Makhno viewed in Ukraine?
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 27-Feb-2012 at 22:33 |
I think he is very respected, although controversial: "...Makhno is indeed a controversial figure. Neither historians nor the
general public have been able to come to a consensual assessment of his
role in the history of Ukraine. Some call him “the defender of the
peasants’ cause”; others refer to him as “a blood-thirsty anarchist and
bandit.” We wanted to see the places where he spent much of his time
both in his childhood and later, during the Civil War...." http://www.wumag.kiev.ua/index2.php?param=pgs20083/130But them anarchism is supposed to be controversial; it's the most misunderstood political theory ever. I personally have great respect for the man - he had pure ideals, he fought a brave fight, starting from absolute zero, with no support, took lots to bring him down, and to his end he uphold his ideals - I can't have nothing but respect for that. This link is full with articles on Makhno, the Makhnovist movement, the Russian Civil War, etc http://libcom.org/tags/ukraine , http://libcom.org/search/apachesolr_search/makhnoI'm going to bookmark it for future readings, but one have to keep in mind that this is a political link, leftist, even more, not to say openly anarchist /so I would use only it's historical articles, not the news it comes up with/. I like that, because it's directly from "the horse's mouth", but one has to keep an eye open for political bias, which is rife in the news section of it. from what I looked over.
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Cryptic
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Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 10:50 |
Originally posted by Don Quixote
I think he is very respected, although controversial: "...Makhno is indeed a controversial figure. Neither historians nor the general public have been able to come to a consensual assessment of his role in the history of Ukraine. Some call him “the defender of the peasants’ cause”; others refer to him as “a blood-thirsty anarchist and bandit.”
- he had pure ideals, he fought a brave fight, starting from absolute zero, with no support, took lots to bring him down, and to his end he uphold his ideals - I can't have nothing but respect for that.
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This man sounds alot like some lesser known figures from the American civil war:
Both were fierce supporters of the confederacy in the American civil war. Though they had no military training, they became exremely skilled guerilla fighters with a reputation for banditry. Fergurson survived four years of very personal and very nasty warfare against pro union guerillas and the union army. Nobody doubted their personal courage, yet officers on their own side distanced themselves from them after atrocities and in the case of Fergurson, stated that his eyes were "intense and strange".
Edited by Cryptic - 28-Feb-2012 at 11:04
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 18:43 |
This is an interesting parallel, I hadn't think about it; probably because of my communist upbringing I tend to see the Russian Civil War as a class struggle, not as a civil war per se, and the American Civil War as a regular civil war, and as such didn't deem them comparable; but they are actually. Thank you for the new perspective ! I have to research the said guys before I come up with a reasonable opinion .
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Nick1986
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Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 19:26 |
Photo of Makhno and his generals. On the left is Fedor Schuss, a disabled sailor from the battleship Ivan Zlatoust. Schuss originally formed an armed group independent of Makhno but submitted to his command until he was killed fighting the Red Army
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Cryptic
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Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 21:10 |
Originally posted by Don Quixote
This is an interesting parallel, I hadn't think about it; probably because of my communist upbringing I tend to see the Russian Civil War as a class struggle, not as a civil war per se |
I think the class struggle concept has been over emphasized by the communists. For example, there were many peasants fighting with the whites while some (or many) middle class intellectuals may have favored the reds to varying degrees.
I think that one thing both wars had in common was that underneath red, black, white, union or confederate; both wars were very fluid and gave inherently violent men the ability to act on their impulses while justifying their actions through their causes.
Unlike ordinary street criminals, these men were complex. For example, they could be very brave in battle, yet also be sadistic bullies. I think many times the idealogical views of a particular side were secondary to the ability to act on violent impusles. Had Makhno been born in Kentucky, he probably would have just as easily fought a nasty, personal war for the union or confederacy just as easily as he fought a brutal war for the anarchist philosophy.
Edited by Cryptic - 28-Feb-2012 at 21:13
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 28-Feb-2012 at 21:35 |
The Russian communist movement was mostly on on intellectuals and workers, the peasants weren't much into it, Lenin etc raved against them all the time. Stalin broke the peasantry's back over and over again to force them to be compliant, from which the Ukrainian Golodomor was the most striking example. That's why the peasants were demonized, called "kulaks" for having a cow and couple of chickens, and during the collectivization everything was taken away from them, down to spare clothes. The class struggle was seen as between workers-and-progressive-intellectuals, and nobles-reactionary-intellectuals-and-kulaks; with the peasants being treated like a glob of dirt. It was like proggress-aganst-reaction, and whoever lined up with the communists, whatever they were, were OK, the rest - enemies.
Anyway, IMHO the civil wars are the more personal and cruel wars that the national ones - there is a deep resentment breeding in both sides, feeling of treachery in almost familial meaning, more bitterness. The national wars are more "Go and get'er done"; the civil wars are like "I'm gonna brake your back, you.../followed by 20 minutes of the most descriptive and imaginative cursing one's culture provide him with/".
Anyway I agree with you that people are people, and they take ideas and fight for them depending on who they feel about taking stands and making wars; and the ideas they pick depend on the historical and cultural background they came from, but the way they react to it would be the same if they came across another idea.
Edited by Don Quixote - 29-Feb-2012 at 19:43
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Nick1986
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Posted: 29-Feb-2012 at 19:22 |
As you say, some of Makhno's officers were thugs and bullies: Schuss was deeply antisemitic and ordered pogroms against Ukraine's Jews until Makhno threatened to have him shot. The Black Army relied on the goodwill of the peasants and helped them with their chores in return for fresh horses
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Nick1986
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Posted: 01-Mar-2012 at 19:20 |
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 02:23 |
That's a great link, thanks, bro!:) I found this primary source on Makhno, this is from "Memoirs of a Revolutionary 1901-41" by Victor Serge,pg. 121-122, I read it on Questia, so I cannot provide link, most lamentably: "... Among the peasants of the Ukraine, their spirit of
rebellion, their capacity for self-organization, their love for local
autonomy, the necessity of relying on nobody but themselves as
defence against the Whites, the Germans, the Yellow-and-Blue
nationalists, and often against harsh and ignorant commissars from
Moscow, heralds of endless requisitioning -- all these factors gave rise
to an extraordinarily vital and powerful movement: the 'Insurgent
Peasant Armies' assembled in the regions of Gulyai-Polye by an
anarchist schoolmaster and ex-convict, Nestor Makhno. Under the inspiration of Boris Voline and Aaron Baron, the anarchist Nabat
(or 'Alarm') Federation provided this movement both with an
ideology, that of the Third (libertarian) Revolution, and with a
banner, the black flag. These peasants displayed a truly epic capacity
for organization and battle. Nestor Makhno,
boozing, swashbuckling, disorderly and idealistic, proved himself to
be a born strategist of unsurpassed ability. The number of soldiers
under his command ran at times into several tens of thousands. His
arms he took from the enemy. Sometimes his insurgents marched into
battle with one rifle for every two or three men: a rifle which, if any
soldier fell, would pass at once from his still-dying hands into those
of his alive and waiting neighbour. Makhno
invented a form of infantry mounted in carts, which gave him enormous
mobility. He also invented the procedure of burying his weapons and
disbanding his forces for a while. His men would pass, unarmed,
through the front lines, unearth a new supply of machine-guns from
another spot, and spring up again in an unexpected quarter. In
September 1919, at Uman, he inflicted a defeat on General Denikin from
which the latter was never to recover. Makhno was known as 'Batko' (little father, or master).
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When the railwaymen of Yekaterinoslav (later Dniepropetrovsk) asked
him for money to pay their wages, he replied, 'Get organized and run
the railway yourselves. I don't need them.' His popular reputation
through the whole of Russia was very considerable, and remained so
despite a number of atrocities committed by his bands; despite, also,
the strenuous calumnies put out by the Communist Party, which went so
far as to accuse him of signing pacts with the Whites at the very
moment when he was engaged in a life-anddeath struggle against them ...." |
Edited by Don Quixote - 02-Mar-2012 at 02:33
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Nick1986
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Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 19:51 |
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Don Quixote
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Posted: 02-Mar-2012 at 21:37 |
That's great, Nick, thank you so much for that link. I haven't read anything by the guy save parts for the book I quoted, so this comes just great and in time.:)
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