Turks & Islam

They should still be able to conquer all ME with any religion. Maybe not hold it.

However Islam was the perfect religion for any nomad conqueror providing a simple religion that anyone can understand and mtoivated warriors. Hell, it was designed for nomads in the first place.

I believe the reason turks adopted Islam was because of logistics, at the time, when they were moving westward, it was the most prevalent religion in the area. I think there were a few converts from the Avars to Zoroastrianism when it was the most prevalent religion at the area. 

Originally posted by xi_tujue ^What has that to do with logistics? what about the survival or spread of Islam (Islam was allready spread as it is today but would i stay that way?)

I was just saying that it was because of logistics that the turks adopted the religion, same with mongols who were leaders of that region.

Originally posted by xi_tujue yet again you fail to explain what transport has to do with Turks adopting Islam?

reread my first post, though it seems you want me to delve even deeper, I am wondering why though, because the statement of location is self explanatory. my explanation for the Turks adopting Islam is because of location and because at that time it was the most prevalent religion in the vicinity hence because of influence to its leaders as the case to the Mongols of previous years such Ilkhanate in their latter years, the turks to control the area and to appease their subjects, this goes for the seljuk turks who at the time had ruled a majority of Muslims. everything in this world has something to do with logistics.

Originally posted by Mortaza Most probably, They would asimilated at anatolia, If They did not convert islam and I do not think, They would have capacity to take all middle east.

Edited by Efraz - 15-Jul-2008 at 08:13

Originally posted by Efraz Hmmm this can be a long long thread :)I have to say at least this: Today even Turks debates harshly on this question. Some nationalists still think converting to Islam was a mistake, some think Islam was perfect for Turks. Some say Turks have developed their own way of Islam. Some Turks use the word "Turk" nearly as a synonym to the word "Muslim". Even there are researches on this: Some still say this is an alien religion for Turks and never truly adopted to it. Some try to prove that Turks' religion was already very close to Islam.In short: Interesting question. I would like to hear non-Turkish ideas too.Personally I think without converting to any Abrahamic religion Turks still would not be able stay pagan. They would convert to Buddhism mostly. Their paganic/shamanic religion was too naive for this cruel and complicated world.If they converted to Christianity I think they would look like, be like and live like the people of Hungary. And maybe... I am just depending on my sense of alternate historical fiction now: If they still conquered Bysantine Empire and converted to Orthodoxy they would be the real heirs of the empire, more than Ottomans. And I think there would not be any crusades at all.And for Judaism we have seen it by experience of Khazars nothing of great significance would happen :)Recently there was a debate in Turkey close to this one. "Were Turks converted to Islam by their own will or by force?" It was such a noise.

Since my late Papoo was Greek and from Istanbul/Constantinople this is an important question to me and it is an interesting question. But, if they had converted to Orthodoxy they might have been assimilated into the Byzantine Empire and become Hellenized like the Cumans, Slavs and other races. I wonder without 1453 if there would have been a 1492? All the new world countries today would not exist. I was recently reading that the Byzantine rulers were hoping the Turks would convert to Orthodoxy and become assimilated. If the Empire had been much stronger they would have not asked (Emp Alexios) for 4-5,000 Frankish and Norman knights. I really do not think there would have been a first crusade and the Byzantines, with thier newly converted Turkic allies, would have taken back former Byzantine lands. From all I have read the Turks, on the most part, accepted Islam willingly but I am sure there were exception. I have read about one tribe that was forced into it but I do not have that source.
I thought Buddhism is pagan?????? I am not sure what religious alternatives they would have embraced if Islam had not come on the scene but most likely Christianity. Imagine if they had embraced the Roman Catholic faith!! Would they have besieged Constantinople for the Pope to force a reunion of the Churches?

While I stood on the ancient walls of Constantinople I thought about these questions.

I wonder if there are alternative universes where things happened differently? For instance, could there be an alternative existence where the Greeks had won the battle of Manzikert or had defeated the Crusaders in 1204

There are a lot of what if questions and it makes for good alternative fiction.

What if the Roman Empire embraced Mithra instead of Christ?
What if the Vikings became Muslim?
What if pee wee Herman ran for President of Sweden in 1998?
What if the truth had come out in 1969 and the moon was really made out of cheese? really!!
on and one - it might never end- millions of alternative universes-????

Edited by eaglecap - 16-Jul-2008 at 21:10

Originally posted by calvo One thing I find curious is that how not only just the Ottomans, but almost ALL Turkic-speaking peoples ended up adopting Islam. Is this because Islam integrates well with their traditions and lifestyle, or is it because Islam gained a strategic foothold in the area in which most Turkic people resided.   All Turkic peoples, from Uighurs (who were once Buddhists), Kirguiz, Kazakhs, Tatars, Uzbeks, Bashkirs.... all converted to Islam, although some earlier or later than others.   Only minority Turkic nationalities, like the Gaugaz of Moldavia, the Yakuts of Siberia, and the chuvash of the Volga, have adopted Christianity.

It would also include the: Cumans, Pechenegs and the Bulgars. I am under the impression that the Turkic tribes who migrated to the former Byzantine lands or Europe became Christianized and those who migrated into the former Persian or Islamic lands became Muslim.

Spero Vyronis in The Decline of Medieval Hellenism in Anatolia uses the term Hellenized when he talked about the mid and later Byzantine period - that is where I got that from but I cannot give you the exact page since I returned the book to the university library.

Originally posted by Flipper Yes, but did he talk about Christianity Hellenizing or just about far Anatolians being Hellenized? And if we're talking about Christianity Hellenizing, which Anatolians were non Hellenized since antiquity that were Hellenized during mid and later Byzantine period? I can imagine that in Cappadokia many people started regarding themselves as one with other Greek speakers of the empire, but i can't put a finger on it really.

Come to think of it I am not sure if I read about the hellenization of a Turkic Tribe in Vyronis' book or Donald Nicol "Immortal Emperor=???

I still have Immortal Emperor from the unversity library

Byzantine Emp - are you out there????