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Slaves of The Ottoman Empire

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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Slaves of The Ottoman Empire
    Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 15:53
When people say slave. 99% of the people think 'African slaves who work in Cotton, tabacco, etc.. planatges'

or who did housework


But whats was it like In the ottoman Empire?
When was it abolished?
What did they do? How were they threated compared to the Americas?
What was the Majority of the slaves(ethnic background)


I'm asking this for 2 reasons.

1. Because we all know that there were slaves in The Ottoman Empire but we don't(I) know much about them.
2. The Ottoman Empire was mabey the last 'old Empire' in the west/world (or at least one of the last)


Any information is welcome


Thank you, Xi tujueBig%20smile
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 18:19
Well Slavs, yes slaves has something to do with that name, were used by the Ottomans as soldiers, slaves, and anything depending on what talents they possess. When the Ottomans conquered the Balkans they cut off the Slavic slave trade to Europeans, that's why the turned to Black Africans, and kept them for themselves.

Unlike slaves in America they didn't have to work doing back breaking work and having no rights, they did. They were trained to be utilized in whatever field they had experience in and further enhanced the Ottoman Empire.
 
Also the Ottoman Empire desired to be like the West but still was more of an Islamic civilization. They wanted to be like the West but unlike the Russians were not obsessed to much about it considering their culture and history.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 18:44
Could you tell us more about "wanting to be like the west" Andrew? Which part of the west and when? I'll share my answer to this thread eventually.
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 19:05
Originally posted by andrew

Well Slavs, yes slaves has something to do with that name, were used by the Ottomans as soldiers, slaves, and anything depending on what talents they possess. When the Ottomans conquered the Balkans they cut off the Slavic slave trade to Europeans, that's why the turned to Black Africans, and kept them for themselves.


I have never read anything like this explanation before, what are your sources? As far as I know, there are no indications the European settlers in America ever planned on importing Slavs. I would also like to know where it can be read that Europeans actually blocked the Ottoman Empire from acquiring Black African slaves, since that too is news to me.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but these are in my opinion controversial claims and need to be backed up by at least something.

Originally posted by andrew

Unlike slaves in America they didn't have to work doing back breaking work and having no rights, they did. They were trained to be utilized in whatever field they had experience in and further enhanced the Ottoman Empire.



True, their tasks were far more varied than the slave work on the European plantations in America, but I've never heard they were spared from doing hard manual labour or that they were treated with respect. I've heard quite the opposite.

Originally posted by andrew

Also the Ottoman Empire desired to be like the West but still was more of an Islamic civilization. They wanted to be like the West but unlike the Russians were not obsessed to much about it considering their culture and history.


They wanted to be like the West? This too is news to me, unless you've moved on to modern times here.

Edited by Reginmund - 30-Oct-2007 at 19:06
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 20:02
Originally posted by Reginmund

I have never read anything like this explanation before, what are your sources? As far as I know, there are no indications the European settlers in America ever planned on importing Slavs. I would also like to know where it can be read that Europeans actually blocked the Ottoman Empire from acquiring Black African slaves, since that too is news to me.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but these are in my opinion controversial claims and need to be backed up by at least something.
 
Please do not put words in my mouth. I said the Ottoman Empire barred Europe from acquiring Slavs. I didn't say anything about the slave trade regarding the Ottomans please re-read my post. Also the slave trade was brought about by the killing off of Native Americans so the Spanish turned to using Africans who could be better at handling the heat and diseases in the new world. Where this involves Ottomans I do not know but then again I did not say anywhere in my original post that this was the cause of the Ottomans.
 
Also I think you misunderstood my post. In Europe the Slavs were usually regarded as slaves but later Western Europeans began regarding Africans as slaves.
 
Originally posted by Reginmund

True, their tasks were far more varied than the slave work on the European plantations in America, but I've never heard they were spared from doing hard manual labour or that they were treated with respect. I've heard quite the opposite.
 
They were highly valued by the sultan and were considered important. If they were good at martial arts and combat they were inserted into the janissary force. If they were intellectuals and exceeded in school they became part of the government. If they were untrained they were forced into whatever trade their master's designated for them.
 
Still they shared equal right and if they converted to Islam, they would be accepted into society. 
 
Originally posted by Reginmund

They wanted to be like the West? This too is news to me, unless you've moved on to modern times here.
 
Originally posted by Seko

Could you tell us more about "wanting to be like the west" Andrew? Which part of the west and when? I'll share my answer to this thread eventually.
 
In terms of military in culture towards the decline of the Ottomans, they did desire to be like the West. They hired European generals to remodel the army and for others to help them remodel their education system and help set up hospitals and universities similarily to Japan. They faced a challenge with conservatives and liberals who wanted to advance into the modern age. The only way the Ottomans could do this is if they could be like the West.
 
Of course this was during the late stage of their empire not so much the beginning. They were always a fusion of Western and Middle Eastern cultures but you can gradually see the shift to desiring the Western ways toward the end of their reign.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 20:17
I think he means the Tulip era in the 17th cent.

The Ottomans opend to the west it doesn't mean they wanted to be like them.


untill when were slaves used in the Empire?
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  Quote Roberts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 20:59
Originally posted by andrew

 
Also I think you misunderstood my post. In Europe the Slavs were usually regarded as slaves but later Western Europeans began regarding Africans as slaves.

What? The word "Slav" has nothing common with "slave" meaning.
Slavs weren't the only European nationally sold in muslim slave markets. In western Europe Spanish, French and Italian coastal lands were raided by North African Barbary pirates for slaves, plunder etc.

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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 22:08
Actually, the word Slav is directly related to the word slave. It entered the Germanic languages with the Slavic migrations into Europe. The slaves in Germanic societies soon consisted of Slavs to such an extent that the words became synonomous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_trade_in_the_Middle_Ages#Slave_trade

Their lot is reminding of that of the Black Africans, though they have gotten far less attention.

Originally posted by andrew

Please do not put words in my mouth. I said the Ottoman Empire barred Europe from acquiring Slavs. I didn't say anything about the slave trade regarding the Ottomans please re-read my post. Also the slave trade was brought about by the killing off of Native Americans so the Spanish turned to using Africans who could be better at handling the heat and diseases in the new world. Where this involves Ottomans I do not know but then again I did not say anywhere in my original post that this was the cause of the Ottomans.


You did say they Europeans turned from using Slavs as slaves to using Black Africans following the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans (quote: "When the Ottomans conquered the Balkans they cut off the Slavic slave trade to Europeans, that's why the turned to Black Africans"), you also said the Europeans kept the Black Africans "to themselves". The way I see it I did not put anything into your mouth, but seeing as you withdraw your claim then it doesn't matter of course.

Edited by Reginmund - 30-Oct-2007 at 22:18
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 23:21
What do Slavs have to do with ottoman slavery?




Edited by es_bih - 30-Oct-2007 at 23:39
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  Quote andrew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Oct-2007 at 23:54
Originally posted by Reginmund

Actually, the word Slav is directly related to the word slave. It entered the Germanic languages with the Slavic migrations into Europe. The slaves in Germanic societies soon consisted of Slavs to such an extent that the words became synonomous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_trade_in_the_Middle_Ages#Slave_trade

Their lot is reminding of that of the Black Africans, though they have gotten far less attention.

Originally posted by andrew

Please do not put words in my mouth. I said the Ottoman Empire barred Europe from acquiring Slavs. I didn't say anything about the slave trade regarding the Ottomans please re-read my post. Also the slave trade was brought about by the killing off of Native Americans so the Spanish turned to using Africans who could be better at handling the heat and diseases in the new world. Where this involves Ottomans I do not know but then again I did not say anywhere in my original post that this was the cause of the Ottomans.


You did say they Europeans turned from using Slavs as slaves to using Black Africans following the Ottoman conquest of the Balkans (quote: "When the Ottomans conquered the Balkans they cut off the Slavic slave trade to Europeans, that's why the turned to Black Africans"), you also said the Europeans kept the Black Africans "to themselves". The way I see it I did not put anything into your mouth, but seeing as you withdraw your claim then it doesn't matter of course.
 
Ok, I am sorry I did misunderstand your post. Although the use of Black Africans was used both by North Africans and Arabs well before the Europeans I believe.
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 01:15
True, their tasks were far more varied than the slave work on the European plantations in America, but I've never heard they were spared from doing hard manual labour or that they were treated with respect. I've heard quite the opposite.

Slaves in the Ottoman Empire are extraordinarily different to slaves in the Americas. To the extent I think it is misleading to apply the same word. In the Ottoman Empire (as with all previous Islamic Empires), a slave had legal rights, a child of a slave was a free man, slaves were very often richer, and more influential than free men.

In the Americas you were not allowed to arm a slave, in the Ottoman Empire the Jannisaries and Kapikulu were slaves. The public service in the ottoman empire was almost exclusively based on slavery. They were Bureaucrats, Governors, and a government work force.

If a slave was purchased by a rich merchant it was common for the slave to become quite rich himself, forming an important part of the business. Often the slave may inherit the business after the owners death. It was common for owners to marry their slaves. All the Ottoman Sultans were the children of slaves.

The Ottoman Empire is an empire that was heavily dependent on slavery, but equally being a slave in the ottoman empire could open you up to opportunities you'd never get as a free man. I think slavery was abolished in 1811 (that's when Egypt abolished it, but Muhammed Ali may have abolished it early to prevent the Mamlukes coming back)

Slaves were mostly taken from the Slavs. But slaves from everywhere could be found.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 08:21
^But as you say

It was nothing compared with slavery in the Americas
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 15:10
There is much history regarding slavery in the Ottoman empire. Here is the short end of it and more to come from me later.
 
A compacted view would be to look at the meaning of slaves and the catagories. Slaves were commodities and protected under Ottoman jurisprudence and Islamic law. The Slave trade is an old institution the world over and the Ottomans were one of the last to implement it. Military captives were a good source, initially from border zones. Muslims could not legally become a slave in the Ottoman empire, though this law was tentatively overlooked as a matter of convenience by the raya. Raya, or flocks, were supposedly property of the state, and the Sultan. However, most any free person who can afford to could own a slave. Dispite military captives, where one fifth of the booty (humans included) was supposed to be handed over to the Sultan they rarely had more than 10 personal slaves. The bulk would go to the state as Kapikulu-Jannissary corps. Royalty of the Sultan's household (harem) would have their own slaves. The slaves of the Harem were mostly servants. Maids, if you will.  Women made up the bulk. Concubines were another form of slaves. They were not legal wives. Though slaves were sexually off limits, concubines were allowed.
 
Aside from the popular slaves of the state gained from the Devshirme system, other forms existed. A free person, mostly muslim, would buy and sell slaves. Slaves often worked in textiles, agriculture among other trades. People of the Book (Ottoman Christians and Jews) were protected from slavery and they eventually owned slaves. However, they were protected as long as they had legal representation under their own Ottoman courts, which was often the case. Otherwise Christians gathered from outside of the empire could become slaves
 
Once slaves became muslim they were allowed freedom. Slaves could also work off their indentured service and then be freemen as well. Since the Ottoman state was predominantly based on the merit system, slaves had career opportunities. They often advanced as state officials, gained higher ranks in the military and in government.
 
Ottoman records contained detailed accounts of the slave trade which included the number of slaves from certain cities. Bursa, Edirne, Baghdad, Kaffa, Istanbul, etc... were popular slave trade centers. Once the bosphorus straights were in Ottoman hands the Genoese lost thier lucrative slave trade routes from the black sea. Europe was denied crimean slaves. Crimea is an old bastion of slavery. The Mamluks used to gather Turks and export them into their territories. Arabs used to import Turks from Central asia. Byzantine and Italian slave trade was abundant in that location as well. The Ottomans folllowed in all of their footsteps.
 
The Ottomans classified people under religious millets. Each had their own religious institutions and spiritual leaders. One could say that the Ottoman state, being ethnically diverse, was more of a cosmopolitan nature than a Turkish empire. Even Greek was known to be the second most important language of the porte and of the establishment. To be an Ottoman carried prestige. The Turk, though everywhere, was often a rugged person from anatolia. A muslim who rode to the call of duty militarily. Yet as an Ottoman anybody had resources that allowed for direct access to state jobs.
 
Ottoman slaves were from all shapes, sizes and colours. Any captive or non-protected people were potential slaves. It is a mistake to think that slaves were only slavics. The Ottoman borders were large and from each zone one could find slaves. They could reach to the heights of power. Albanian and Greek veziers, Bosnian, Serb, and Hungarian miltary commanders are only a few examples of a persons potential. The ethinicities were endless as merits were rewarded with honor and glory. This opportunity mainly opened to muslims. Meaning any ethnicity could, and often did, turn 'Turk' in order to have a better career.
 
Religiously, each millet were governed by their own. One of the reasons for Slavic displeasure was the immense power of the Greek Church however. The Ottoman Patriarch ruled not only over Greeks but most of the east orthodox. Yet the Bulgars and other Slavs found that lack of direct representation difficult to accept. They eventually turned to Russia for ecclestial support. This is perhaps one reason why the Ottomans later had so many wars and problems with the Russians being that they disagreed over governance over their flocks and spiritual representation.
 
In sum, slaves were of two kinds; those of the state and those owned by free men. Slaves were looked upon as property. They were often a good source of income as a commodity. They had rights however, Human rights under Islamic rule. That is why a slave is looked upon as rather a servant who can earn freedom.
 
More to come later.
 


Edited by Seko - 31-Oct-2007 at 15:31
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  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2007 at 20:19
Originally posted by Seko

They eventually turned to Russia for ecclestial support. This is perhaps one reason why the Ottomans later had so many wars and problems with the Russians being that they disagreed over governance over their flocks and spiritual representation.
That is interesting, it certainly seems logical.  I was always curious about the endless wars between russians and ottoman empire.  (not at all an area of expertise mind you) That is one reason I have never considered.  Appreciate the info Seko. 


Edited by Justinian - 31-Oct-2007 at 20:20
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2007 at 09:39
Originally posted by Seko

There is much history regarding slavery in the Ottoman empire. Here is the short end of it and more to come from me later.
 
A compacted view would be to look at the meaning of slaves and the catagories. Slaves were commodities and protected under Ottoman jurisprudence and Islamic law. The Slave trade is an old institution the world over and the Ottomans were one of the last to implement it. Military captives were a good source, initially from border zones. Muslims could not legally become a slave in the Ottoman empire, though this law was tentatively overlooked as a matter of convenience by the raya. Raya, or flocks, were supposedly property of the state, and the Sultan. However, most any free person who can afford to could own a slave. Dispite military captives, where one fifth of the booty (humans included) was supposed to be handed over to the Sultan they rarely had more than 10 personal slaves. The bulk would go to the state as Kapikulu-Jannissary corps. Royalty of the Sultan's household (harem) would have their own slaves. The slaves of the Harem were mostly servants. Maids, if you will.  Women made up the bulk. Concubines were another form of slaves. They were not legal wives. Though slaves were sexually off limits, concubines were allowed.
 
Aside from the popular slaves of the state gained from the Devshirme system, other forms existed. A free person, mostly muslim, would buy and sell slaves. Slaves often worked in textiles, agriculture among other trades. People of the Book (Ottoman Christians and Jews) were protected from slavery and they eventually owned slaves. However, they were protected as long as they had legal representation under their own Ottoman courts, which was often the case. Otherwise Christians gathered from outside of the empire could become slaves
 
Once slaves became muslim they were allowed freedom. Slaves could also work off their indentured service and then be freemen as well. Since the Ottoman state was predominantly based on the merit system, slaves had career opportunities. They often advanced as state officials, gained higher ranks in the military and in government.
 
Ottoman records contained detailed accounts of the slave trade which included the number of slaves from certain cities. Bursa, Edirne, Baghdad, Kaffa, Istanbul, etc... were popular slave trade centers. Once the bosphorus straights were in Ottoman hands the Genoese lost thier lucrative slave trade routes from the black sea. Europe was denied crimean slaves. Crimea is an old bastion of slavery. The Mamluks used to gather Turks and export them into their territories. Arabs used to import Turks from Central asia. Byzantine and Italian slave trade was abundant in that location as well. The Ottomans folllowed in all of their footsteps.
 
The Ottomans classified people under religious millets. Each had their own religious institutions and spiritual leaders. One could say that the Ottoman state, being ethnically diverse, was more of a cosmopolitan nature than a Turkish empire. Even Greek was known to be the second most important language of the porte and of the establishment. To be an Ottoman carried prestige. The Turk, though everywhere, was often a rugged person from anatolia. A muslim who rode to the call of duty militarily. Yet as an Ottoman anybody had resources that allowed for direct access to state jobs.
 
Ottoman slaves were from all shapes, sizes and colours. Any captive or non-protected people were potential slaves. It is a mistake to think that slaves were only slavics. The Ottoman borders were large and from each zone one could find slaves. They could reach to the heights of power. Albanian and Greek veziers, Bosnian, Serb, and Hungarian miltary commanders are only a few examples of a persons potential. The ethinicities were endless as merits were rewarded with honor and glory. This opportunity mainly opened to muslims. Meaning any ethnicity could, and often did, turn 'Turk' in order to have a better career.
 
Religiously, each millet were governed by their own. One of the reasons for Slavic displeasure was the immense power of the Greek Church however. The Ottoman Patriarch ruled not only over Greeks but most of the east orthodox. Yet the Bulgars and other Slavs found that lack of direct representation difficult to accept. They eventually turned to Russia for ecclestial support. This is perhaps one reason why the Ottomans later had so many wars and problems with the Russians being that they disagreed over governance over their flocks and spiritual representation.
 
In sum, slaves were of two kinds; those of the state and those owned by free men. Slaves were looked upon as property. They were often a good source of income as a commodity. They had rights however, Human rights under Islamic rule. That is why a slave is looked upon as rather a servant who can earn freedom.
 
More to come later.
 


thank you for this wonderfull post seko Smile
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