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Discussion Of Hypothetical Species Traits

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TheARRGH View Drop Down
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  Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Discussion Of Hypothetical Species Traits
    Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 00:04
...yes, i know the title is kind of cumbersome.

The other day, i was imagining what a hypothetical sentient species might be like, largely in terms of behavior, culture, and thought processes, for the express purpose of having a mental puzzle to solve. I realize that this is the natural HISTORY forum, but being that a lot of people who presumably know a fair bit about topics which pertain to this hang out here, i deemed it the best forum to ask my questions.

The hypothetical species is predatory, although capable of digesting plant matter, is not extremely large or overtly small, but more in the midsize range. (around 5-7 feet, perhaps.) It is reptilian, with the effective sense of smell enhanced by the Jacobsen's organ that is common in lizards and snakes. (I decided on it being a reptile because i purposely wanted to imagine the thought processes and behavior of something not at all similar to humans)
The closest parallel to it in existence might be the Komodo Dragon, with a social structure, the capability for "play" behaviors, and monogamy, at least in some circumstances.

I figured that any sentient predatory species would be very different, mentally, from (for instance) humans. Humans are descended, essentially from an animal that most closely fits the "prey" category. An herbivorous prey animal lives with a near constant "fear". It knows that something dangerous is out there. Thus, some of the most aggressive creatures are herbivores or prey animals, because of the sense of a threat. Hippos and moose being cases in point, although the rule is by no means universal. If a prey animal gains a level of power that causes it to be less threatened, it still perceives threats everywhere, and thus may exercise that power unnecessarily. A predator, however, must conserve its energy and health for situations where they iare needed, and as a predator is generally less threatened, it might exhibit more analytical behavior in deciding whether or nor to engage in acts of aggression. The hypothetical species i imagine possesses that more logical, albeit cold-blooded, approach to dangerous or difficult situations.

My question is, essentially, whether this description is fairly feasible, and what other traits you might imagine it to have, other than the obvious (ectothermy, some sort of natural weapons, etc.)

Thank you in advance for your answers.


Edited by TheARRGH - 14-Aug-2007 at 00:16
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 03:58


The hypothetical species is predatory, although capable of digesting plant matter, is not extremely large or overtly small, but more in the midsize range. (around 5-7 feet, perhaps.) It is reptilian, with the effective sense of smell enhanced by the Jacobsen's organ that is common in lizards and snakes. (I decided on it being a reptile because i purposely wanted to imagine the thought processes and behavior of something not at all similar to humans)
The closest parallel to it in existence might be the Komodo Dragon, with a social structure, the capability for "play" behaviors, and monogamy, at least in some circumstances.


First I would ask is this creature going to be bipedal or quadrapedal. I assume since you want it to be humanlike you'd want it to be bipedal. However if this was the case then it would have to have different bone structure than a normal lizard. as it wouldn't be able to support it's own mass properly. In order to properly envision the bone structure tho' I'd need to know the environment this creature evolved in. If it remains quadrapedal though there is really no major issues with it.

Next is the Jacobsen's organ. This is entirely feasible, especially if your going for a social creature (a necessity for cultural intelligence) the means of hunting would be ambush by setting up a "line" or "cluster" of group members so that the prey could not escape. And because of such a large grouping of predators, the ability to eat plants could come from emergency food supply when meat got scarce, perhaps in order to prevent cannibalism.

Now being cold blooded you must understand these creatures will live longer lives, but much slower lives, with a more delayed thought pattern. Think about how your brain works when drunk, or really tired. They could still get some quick bursts of action in, but for the most part they are a step behind everyone. Not that they won't catch up, but it may take longer for them to do so.

This is what I got so far, it's late so I'll come back to this, when ideas hit me. Perhaps I'll try and tackle their psychology.

(Personally if you want a totally alien mindset, envision creatures evolved from Cephelapods.)

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  Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2007 at 13:36
Yeah..cephalopods might be a good choice, but I've always had sort of a weakness for reptiles. I read way too many dinosaur books when i was younger. if there is such a thing as "too many". I suppose i was thinking that the bone structure might be semi-bipedal, vaguely like certain apes. It would support standing upright, but probably the main mode of movement when speed is necessary would be quadrupedal. I also think that, as a cold-blooded animal, It might be a good digger or burrower, since digging is one of the best ways to insulate oneself during the night. The environment i envisioned would be fairly varied-semitropical volcanic islands, and not too far away, a somewhat desertlike littoral not dissimilar to the Peruvian coast. Perhaps some sort of highlands near that, and a more wet, tropical area somewhat further inland. I sort of envisioned that the species might have spread through most of those areas, except perhaps the colder highlands, although coldblooded creatures can be pretty effective at surviving relatively cold climates in certain circumstances.

Part of the reason i chose reptile as the base type was that reptiles require far less food than mammals, and still retain quite a bit of effectiveness as predators. It seems like a sentient social predator that lived in groups would benefit from requiring less food total, and even more so from having the ability to derive nutrients from nonmeat sources in the event that even the relatively small amount of food required by ectothermic predators couldn't be found.

UPDATEISH THING:

I'm sort of leaning towards a culture/social structure vaguely as follows:
Any predator, although not precisely more agressive than a different type of creature, is certainly just as willing to engage in power struggles. And a predator has a lot of natural weapons, as it's quite simply built to kill. So, presumably, any intelligent predatory creature would reatin a lot of that careful approach to social etiquette-attempting to avoid physical struggle, in order to avoid lowering the overall efficiency of the group by killing or seriously injuring another member. Something with huge claws and teeth has to be a little more careful about fighting other member of its social group.

However, a predator's natural impulse is to physically defeat something that's annoying it; so presumably actual physical violence would be somewhat more accepted, but regulated carefully-perhaps the culture might include a lot of "duels" or something of the type, carefully monitored to prevent serious injury or death?


I feel perhaps that education (if any) might follow the "teach-people-to-fight-from-birth" formula that was so prevalent in societies such as the Aztec-in which, while violence was not precisely the hugest aspect, it might be considered a vital part of education.

GIVE ME MORE IDEAS. EVEN THE MOST INEXPERT OR INANE ARE WELCOME.
(maybe not inane...)

thoughts, questions, comments, anything. I want it.




Edited by TheARRGH - 16-Aug-2007 at 18:28
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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  Quote Knights Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2007 at 22:01
Hi ARRGH...I really wanted to participate in this topic, but I was just approaching exams. Though now, if you are still enthusiastic, I'm happy to discuss.

The hypothetical species is predatory, although capable of digesting plant matter, is not extremely large or overtly small, but more in the midsize range. (around 5-7 feet, perhaps.) It is reptilian, with the effective sense of smell enhanced by the Jacobsen's organ that is common in lizards and snakes. (I decided on it being a reptile because i purposely wanted to imagine the thought processes and behavior of something not at all similar to humans)
The closest parallel to it in existence might be the Komodo Dragon, with a social structure, the capability for "play" behaviors, and monogamy, at least in some circumstances.

So an omnivorous predator? The Komodo dragon is solely carnivorous, but I'm sure some Monitor lizards would occasionally supplement their diets with fruit or plant matter. For plant matter to be of any use, the enzyme cellulase needs to be present in the digestive system, in order to digest the complex carbohydrate cellulose. Without this, plant matter is of little nutriment.
Will it be a hind or fore gut fermenter? A caecum can be present to aid in the digestion of plant matter.
Being a reptilian, I'd imagine ectothermic?
Venom glands and ducts are always handy in reptiles, and sharp claws are a must. Digging and climbing are an integral part of a lizard's lifestyle.
What habitat will the species inhabit? You'd need to decide on camouflage, scale type.etc

What are your thoughts on these ideas?
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  Quote TheARRGH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Sep-2007 at 22:02
yes, ectothermic. makes it a little harder to imagine. I would say that at some point it evolved the ability to digest plant matter-after all, insofar as i know, humanity was, technically, more or less built to be herbivorous-but eventually managed to digest meat.

I'm not sure about the details of the digestive system, however.
Venom is possible, but given the hypothetical creature's physical advantages, any venom would probably not be terribly strong.

habitat would probably have originally been a volcanic island cluster relatively near the coast.presumably they would have spread from there to the coast and then into the interior. I was thinking there might be a population in a mountain range, but one that would've only entered that area after a while, once heavy, warm clothing and other insulatory tools were invented.

I would imagine scales of a somewhat standard type-tougher than normal skin, but not terribly so. Camouflage would probably be a mottled tan-to-green color.

I'll have to think up ideas on possible psychology or culture-if you have any, please post.
Who is the great dragon whom the spirit will no longer call lord and god? "Thou shalt" is the name of the great dragon. But the spirit of the lion says, "I will." - Nietzsche

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