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Colonist-Indian relations

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Colonist-Indian relations
    Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 00:57
You both have valid points. Even by observation you can see this quite clearly. I myself have two "American" friends you could say, who both have Native ancestry, one not so much, rather the norm of 1/16th that pinguin mentioned, the other more pronounced genetically speaking into the 1/4th at least I believe, however neither one of them shows the phenotype, except that they lack abundance of facial hair. It is quite common to find many people who have at least a little Native admixture down the line that they do know about, so you can naturally assume that the numbers of people who have it altogether must be much higher, as many people usually do not know past maybe three generations of ancestors. It is largely forgotten I believe, due to the dominance of the Anglican American cultural identity. The mainstream does not require a maintenance of Native or any other customs or language for that matter, therefore, such traits are lost while the DNA is still there.
 
In the early times this did happen quite frequently, the area of study that I am familiar with would be the Great Lakes region around Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Canada. This area was populated by many Native tribes, and scattered French fur trading outposts. The French came largely as traders, and Jesuits, there were much less women among the new comers than for any other group. They intermarried with the Native women for trading advantages, and to establish family ties, and contacts; for that was the nature of the beast of the trading networks of the 17th century Midwest. However, as in Indian Women and French Men, Susan Sleeper Smith notes that this intermarriage pattern went into the 18th and 19th centuries as well when towns and American social infrastructure had been built up more widespread in the Mid West. Naturally, the offspring by now, lost touch with the Native side, as they lived in cities, and adhered to Anglican culture rather than to their Native halves or whichever percentile their admixture had been. If it had been widespread here, even after the establishment of more widespread settlements, it makes only sense that it would be in other places as well.
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 01:24
1/16 seems enormous to me, but after all why not...

I don't know exactly how many "whites" are in the US, but lets assume for the sake of simplicity, 160 millions (maybe less but lets say that the Blacks that have white ancestry account for the rest). Now lets say there were about 10 millions natives in 1500 north of the Rio Grande (maybe less, but once more I'm guessing).

If we follow Dawkins' vision stating that (1) selection takes place at the gene level and (2) that what drives the individual is the survival of its gene pool, we get this: the effects of the natives' genocide have been repared!

10 millions natives in 1500 = 1/16th of 160 millions in 2000. It is a bit like in economics where you have secular trends a country's economy fluctuats around but ultimately follows for centuries. It also allows us to give a stricter definition of a genocide; it is not properly killing a given group of people, but to prevent this group of people to reproduce and pass on its gene pool.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 11:24
Absoluty agree!!!
 
That's what I though as well. There is just a matter which is not quite clear: how many Natives lived in North America at the time of contact?
 
I believe the 10 million number is a little bit exagerated, though. Between 500.000 and 1 million is a more likely figure, because theirs economies were based mainly in hunting and basic agriculture. There were not large densities in North America. With respect of people's densities, the U.S. it is very much like the Amazon and Patagonia regions.
 
If so, you not only have a preservation but population growth.
 
Now, this topic is very interesting to determine if there was really a large scale genocide in the U.S. or rather what was going on it was an overcrowding of locals and massive assimilation. I believe the later is closer to the true.
 
Pinguin
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 08-Mar-2007 at 11:25
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  Quote Mrhistoryguy23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 17:03
please some one delete this topic now! or else im a dead man!.. seriously.., no lie! please delete it!! please please .., erase all of it now!!
thank u!

please let me live! HELPPPP!!!!!! DELETE!!!!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 17:35

If you are not interested, you have thousand of other topics to chose.

Why do you worry that much

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  Quote Mrhistoryguy23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 17:36
because my life is depending on it!
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  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 18:09
Mr. Historyguy - stop this spamming now!
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  Quote Mrhistoryguy23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 18:23
will you please delete this topic that i posted? Northman?


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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jun-2012 at 19:20
In many cases the early colonists "went native." Fur trappers married local squaws, wore the buckskins of their adopted tribe, and participated in the customs. One of the reasons wigs were so popular in the Americas was because the Puritans banned long hair among the colonists due to its association with the Indians
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  Quote Nick1986 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2012 at 20:36
It's thought Raleigh's colony at Roanoke failed because the English deserted the fort and joined the local Indians. Early colonists spoke of Indians with blue eyes who spoke a language that sounded like Welsh
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2012 at 10:17
Interelations were predictable on both sides.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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