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New Chronology

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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Chronology
    Posted: 26-Dec-2004 at 16:27
The "New Chronlogy" has been around for quite a while. Perhaps because of the interenet, it seems to have become more popular recently. In the old forums, there were adverstisements for material relating to new Chronology. For those of you who aren't familiar with that this is about,

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The New Chronology of Anatoly Timofeevich Fomenko is an attempt to rewrite world chronology, based on his conclusion that world chronology as we know it today is flawed, put together by unscientific methods.  The ideas of Fomenko are a direct continuation of earlier theories of Nikolai Morozov.

In his revision, Fomenko claims that our chronology is elongated by around 1000 years, by misdating medieval manuscripts to earlier times; for example, some manuscripts which describe history of Rome around 1000 AD were, according to Fomenko, misdated as being thousand years older than they actually are, and so are today believed to describe history of Rome around 1 AD which didn't actually happen. The end result is that events which history claims to have happened 2000 years ago are copies of events which happened 1000 years ago. As another example, Fomenko claims that Plato, Plotinus and Gemistus Pletho are one same person - according to him, some texts by or about Pletho were misdated and today believed to be texts by or about Plotinus or Plato.

There are many resources on the web dedicated to new chronology, some are frighteningly large and long.

One of the oldest sites on New Chronology is revisedhistory.org. For example, let's take a look at one of its section

http://www.revisedhistory.org/investigation-historical-datin g.htm#

Here there's a lot of discussion on dynasty funcitons. However, the problem is that in the first graph, the dates selected for comparison seems to be arbitrary. Some of the dates in the parentheses don't flow smoothly to the next. Some characters like Henry I seem to be missing from the chart. The second graph looks a lot more compelling because it has more of relation between the two being compared. But then again, there're only two charts and there's no reason to say that it wasn't a coincidence. Furthermore, there seems to be something strange with the dates around the time of "Gaius I."

We will discuss some of typical arguments against the New Chronology. One of the most popular arguments in support of the conventional chronology is that the carbon-14 dating method supports it. But in fact it is not true. The carbon-14 method, which was discovered by Willard Libby, is based on the measurement of the radiocarbon level in organic samples. It assumes essentially uniform level of the isotope carbon-14 in every living material, but it is now clear that carbon-14 was never homogeneously distributed. In fact, in order to improve its "accuracy," the carbon-14 method was calibrated using samples of "known" age. It was done by constructing the so-called calibration curves, which are dependent on the conventional chronology. That means the carbon-14 dating method is secondary and is not able either confirm or discard any chronological theory. In addition, the errors induced by this method exceed all reasonable time intervals. We would like to point out that if the global chronology was changed, the carbon-14 dating method would also work nicely with the new dating system. It is not possible to present here a complete discussion of this complicated problem (we refer the reader to [2], Vol.1, pp. 133-136, [3], Vol.1, pp. 184-214, and [13]).


However, calibration curves do not entirely depend on known chronology, as they are usually made in comparison with natural chronology, such as tree rings.

There is also a huge work by Fomenko on the internet, here:

http://lib.ru/FOMENKOAT/engltr.txt

Yep, support or debunk it.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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vagabond View Drop Down
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2004 at 05:59

Please don't tell me that anyone is taking this revisionist nonsense as serious theory? 

 Hours could be spent debunking this junk and still achieve nothing as they have written in argument-proof traps as the basis of their own arguments: 

The traditional chronology is based on lies and falsifications. 

They won't accept any archaeological evidence as the archaeological record is flawed in that it is tied to traditional chronology. 

They won't accept radio-carbon dating as they feel the methodology is flawed. (Your mention of dendro-chronology is particularly apt).

They won't accept the first hand statements of any of the historians prior to the late medieval/Renaissance or so - and all of those were in a conspiracy to "create" our ancient history?

Given all of the above - they could state anything and - based on the assumption that all prior historical knowledge is falsified - make any claims that they want to.

One brief example that jumped out at me -  a statement that they make about a Biblical passage referring to Paul's planned trip Spain.  Their logic - since Spain didn't exist as a country until united by Isabel and Ferdinand - the Bible couldn't have been written until after the 15th century!  All of their arguments seem to rest on similarly flawed logic. 

And the mathematics they use to construct their new chronology is incomprehensible to me.  Perhaps I just don't have a brain for statistical analysis.

I'll have to give it a proper read when I have time for some humor.  A cock-eyed wingnut with a sophisticated mathematical formula, a fistful of statistics, a dictionary full of big words and a mountain of "comparative" data assembled in neat looking (if usually meaningless) charts and visuals is still a cock-eyed wingnut.

Quote:

It is not possible to present here a complete discussion of this complicated problem   (we refer the reader to ... )

Endquote

I refer the reader to the land of Oz - you'll get better answers from the Wizard.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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  Quote Roughneck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2004 at 12:06
This sounds like the nutty post-modernist argumen that we can't know anything about history because languages change and we can't understnad the meaning of words in their original contexts.  Basically a bunch of garbage that would render all historical research meaningless.  Some assumptions must be made to do research.
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Temujin View Drop Down
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2004 at 15:34
I completely agree with vagabond.....
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  Quote dark_one Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2004 at 16:04
 Has some valid points like that Anarctic is Atlantis which movefd norht. Expalin more tommorrow its 1 am.
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Cornellia View Drop Down
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  Quote Cornellia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Dec-2004 at 19:09
Once again, Vagabond said it best.
Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
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blitz View Drop Down
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  Quote blitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2005 at 05:32
I heard, Fomenko proved that Chinggis Khan was a russian guy.


Road to wisdom: err, err and err. But less, less and less!
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  Quote Hellinas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2005 at 05:52

I've been a member of their forum for about a year now, actually one of the hated members. Since I argue that this whole theory of theirs is nothing more than BS.

Based of Flomenko's book they argue and actually believe that everything pyramids, Parthenon and all ancient civilizations, began or should I say are a devious construction of the 15th cent and that these ideas are actually stolen from the jew empire LOL!!!.    But in order to be fair on our judgement, at times they do present some very interesting arguments but the rest really aren't to be taken seriously in no way.

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azimuth View Drop Down
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2005 at 09:29

jew empire

 

anyway Vagabond sounds correct to me

 

 

 

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jan-2005 at 13:16
I agree with Vagabond
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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