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Islamization of Central Asia

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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Islamization of Central Asia
    Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 18:19

[continue of the discussion with Ihsan about consequences of Talas Battle 751 AD]

The Battle of Talas was fought at 751, the earliest date of mass-convertions of Turkic peoples started in the 940s. There is an almost two centuries of gap between the two events.

The Volga Bulgars learned about Islam via Muslim traders from the South, they converted under the orders of their ruler, just like what happened to the Kievan Rus. I think the Qara-Khanids and Oghuz, at least the early followers of Seljk (Seljűk) Begh, converted in the same way, though there must have been many self-convertions too. Satuq Bughra Khan, for example, was influenced from a refugee Smnid prince whereas Seljuk Begh had to convert to gain support from the residents of Jand (remember that after breaking up from the Yabghu of Oghuz, Seljuk went to Jand with his followers and converted to Islam later).

Islam was spread among the rest of Qara-Khanids and some of the Uyghurs via the "Holy Wars" of Muslim Qara-Khanid rulers. Especially the earliest Muslim Qara-Khanids had many "Ghz" rulers.

Well, my original post was not only about Turkic tribes but about whole Central Asia..and yes the Volga Bulgars have not fit for this theory. What about the Taharides, Saffarides and Samanids and their influence for the neighbouring nomads ? Do you think the  Turkish tribes would be converted into Islam in X centaury beeing separated from the Khalifate by other religion (zoroastranism, buddishm, nestorianism) ?

 

My point is that I couldn't find any connections between Turkic peoples converting to Islam and the Battle of Talas. You say the Turks converted via Islamised Transoxiana, but Talas didn't and couldn't have much impacts on Abbsid rule over the region. Even if the Tang won, they still wouldn't conquer the region, at least for a long time. If they did, the Abbsids would re-strike with even more powerful forces (remember the wars between Sulu Qaghan and Umawwids )

Hmm.. and what was the position of Abbasids in the Central Asia in this age ?.. Why Abbasids haven't  increase their conquest ? The answer is the many internal revolts ( in Transoxiana but alo in Persia  ) which have take place in the second VIII centaury as well as  in the first half of  IX centraury. To name just the main leaders: Sunbadq, Muqanna, Babak, Jahija ibn Abd Allah, Rafi ibn Lajsa...   



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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 15:23

and yes the Volga Bulgars have not fit for this theory. What about the Taharides, Saffarides and Samanids and their influence for the neighbouring nomads ? Do you think the  Turkish tribes would be converted into Islam in X centaury beeing separated from the Khalifate by other religion (zoroastranism, buddishm, nestorianism) ?

The Volga Bulgars converted to Islam a few decades before the Qara-Khanids did... Besides, Satuq Bughra Khan converted after being influenced by a refugee Smnid prince.

Hmm.. and what was the position of Abbasids in the Central Asia in this age ?.. Why Abbasids haven't  increase their conquest ?

They soon lost there to local rulers.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 08:19
Hmmm.  I know that many Korean scolars went to China and became Muslims....
Grrr..
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  Quote TJK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 12:29
Originally posted by ihsan

Besides, Satuq Bughra Khan converted after being influenced by a refugee Smnid prince.

Hmm.. and what was the position of Abbasids in the Central Asia in this age ?.. Why Abbasids haven't  increase their conquest ?

They soon lost there to local rulers.

Well, this is exatly my point - if Khalifate would loose at Talas the rule in this regions would be taken by local dynasties in the same way...but this dynaties would be not islamized => their influence on Turkihs tribes would not resulted with islamization or this process would be hardy slowed... 

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 15:33

Uhm... I see...

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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2004 at 23:49

"Well, this is exatly my point - if Khalifate would loose at Talas the rule in this regions would be taken by local dynasties in the same way...but this dynaties would be not islamized => "

 

How so? You are assuming that the tang army would assist them in rebellion which is highly unlikely.

 

"their influence on Turkihs tribes would not resulted with islamization or this process would be hardy slowed... "

 

Its irrelevant because Al Mamun would have subdued or force them into islam anyway. He virtually started to conquer central asia over again after loosing them during the internal struggle with his brother. He attacked with a strong force never seen before in the Arab world and captured all and forced islamization on Kabul. All this is assuming the Abbasids under Harun Al Rashid haven't already conquered these territories. Arabs have been driven out by Turgis and lost most of their position in central asia and they reconquered it in the end.

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 14:25
Even if the Abbsids tried to conquer entire Central Asia, they would have to face first the Qarluqs, then the powerful Uyghurs. A campaign against the Uyghurs taking place on the open steppes would surely have resulted with a great Abbsid disaster at the hands of Bayan Chor Qaghan.
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2004 at 17:27
They would have to face the Tibetans first, which had a far greater force than the Arabs in central asia or around it.
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