The Third Rome

riiiiiiiight.....

So...you're saying if tsar=ceasar, then Moscow=Rome?

I assume Constantinople was 2nd Rome?

When did the tsar rule over christian people? I though that was the Pope, and Russia followed the Eastern Orthodox Church.

When did the tsar rule over W. European Kingdoms?

While I don't consider myself an intuitive scholar, I don't see how someone that does could possibly see how your "questions" could possibly relate to Napolean, today, or anything in between.

What I'm trying to say is: clarify.

Edited by shortej

Originally posted by shortej When did the tsar rule over christian people? I though that was the Pope, and Russia followed the Eastern Orthodox Church.

I have trouble believing this. The Eastern Orthodox Church is not Christian.?

Every tsar has ruled over Christian peoples. As far as I'm aware, the title 'tsar' was first applied to the ruler of Bulgaria in or around the eighth century (top of my head - somewhere thereabouts) as the slav equivalent of caesar, and also around the time the Bulgarians converted to Christianity (Orthodox) under the influence of - and sometimes subject to - Byzantium.

I don't think the title was ever used by non-Christian Slavs.

As for the Russian Tsar ruling over Roman Catholics, the answer is yes in Poland. Also I think the Moravians of Western Ukraine were in communion with Rome.

(As a matter of passing interest, the first language other than Latin, Greek and Hebrew authorised by the Pope for translating the Bible was what is now known as Church Slavonic.)

 

 

 

Moscow for most of history was unworthy to be considered the third rome. Just look at the "city" from say 900 to 1400. What did it amount to? Just a trading settlement???

Moscow was considered the third Rome by many, such as the monk Filofei:

"The Apollinarian heresy caused the downfall of old Rome. The Turks used their axes to shatter the doors of all churches of the Second Rome, the city of Constantinople. Now [in Moscow], the new Third Rome, the Holy Ecumenical Apostolic Church of your sovereign state shines brighter than the sun in the universal Orthodox Christian faith throughout the world. Pious Tsar! Let [people of] your state know that all states of the Orthodox faith have now merged into one, your state. You are the only true Christian ruler under the sky!"

A lot of the third Rome ideal was created by the Romanov Dynasty. They believed they were sucessors to the second Rome (Constantinople). Of course they considered the Rome at that time unworthy of being "Rome" because they wre catholic and not orthodox.


Edited by Imperator Invictus

it seems some people are getting it. as to napoleon:  the old saying "those who win the wars write the books."  look into the the coronation process of rulers.  the only rulers to crown themselves were the czars, and of course napoleon.  then look at how napoleon brought down the holy roman empire or as i like to call it the greater roman empire--the western lands ruled from moscow.  the first step of course took place when the transfer of the capitol of the greater roman empire went from spain about 1700 to austria.  napoleon then came and drove a wedge through europe that would lead to his ultimate goal conquering moscow (the third rome).   then look at russia's role in protecting the middle east throughout the 18th and 19th centuries.  they were not colonizing the world, but protecting the christian people.

"the world belongs to those who forsee possibilities before they become obvious." --some great thinker.

"war is the quickest and most effective way to change the commonly held beliefs of a society." kant

 

Excuse me, maybe I'll sound a little funny for some of you, but i thought Tarnovgrad was called "The Third Rome and Second Constantinopolle" If there is any other Rome, it will be fourth!

We haven't strong evidences for our thesis, but there are some descriptions of Tarnovgrad by some ancient travellers who called it Third Rome, because of the big cultural apogee of the town and Bulgaria during the 14 century and economic and politic decline of Byzantium at the time

A little support of my thesis is that link but there aren't any evidences!

http://www.vtarnovo.hit.bg/aboutvt_e.html