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Does Morocco have right to claim West Sah

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Barbarroja View Drop Down
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  Quote Barbarroja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Does Morocco have right to claim West Sah
    Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 05:01
When Franco was in his last days Hassan the king of Morocco organized the "Green departure"(??) and occupied West Sahara. Spain didn't want to do a war and Morocco claimed this territory. The Polisary Front has been finghting againts Morocco during many years and many Saharauis are in Argelian camps and they don't have any right in his country. However UN doesn't do anything and the Baker plan has failed.
 
More than 25 years in this situation is very time. Whay do you think about that?


Edited by Barbarroja - 12-Sep-2006 at 05:02
I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 06:22
Status - Quo will continue untill they become powerfull enought to demand or find a Godfather country that backs them.
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 08:07
i can only offer my personal opnion, have a free and fair election (that only inculdes the tribes) that live there. My sympathies go the polisaro though there is neighbourhood  politics behind the whole thing, as is always the case
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 09:11
The great tragic for the people of Western Sahara is, that while their plight is in every respect as desperate as that of the Palestinians refuges, if they would only get 1% of the attention and support the Palestinians get, the Sahrawians would have returned to their homeland and gained independence decades ago.
Alas, the whole conflict is only about a bit of desert with a few phosphates deposits, and only Arabic countries and people are involved, and thus nobody gives a damn.
Another triumph of brutal force and hypocrisy over human rights, and no, there is no obvious solution. The great danger for the Polisario is, that eventually the camps in the Algerian deserts will empty themselves, as the refuges disperse elsewhere to seek a decent life, thus destroying both Polisario's powerbase and the cultural identity of the Sahrawian people.
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  Quote Barbarroja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 06:35
One problem, and a very big problem is that Morocco is allied of US and France and usually Spain (West Sahara was a Spanish colony) doesn't do anything to help Saharauis. But Saharaui people has a good relation with Spain and many children come each summer to Spain and they live with Spanish families.
Another problem is to decide who can vote in a referendum, only Saharauis or also all the people who live in West Sahara, can be many people who have born in West Sahara after the invasion.
I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 08:19
Originally posted by Leonidas

i can only offer my personal opnion, have a free and fair election (that only inculdes the tribes) that live there. My sympathies go the polisaro though there is neighbourhood  politics behind the whole thing, as is always the case


Election are not the answer. The problem with elections is that if you start conducting them at the drop of a hat, their would be a thousand countries instead of the present close to 200. & all would keep on fighting with each other none of them able to do anything else or manage themselves. It would be total chaos.

Imagine the case - Would'nt the french want their own separate canada.
The hispanics would want a semi hispanic US, The africans would assert themselves in the south, mecedonians would want to separate from greece.

UK will be split into england, wales, northers ireland & scotland, the basques would separate. the case of bigger countries like china, india would be unimaginable...
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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 10:09
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma


Imagine the case - Would'nt the french want their own separate canada.
 
I am afraid you've been misinformed on two levels.
 
1. We are not "French". We are Qubcois. Just because we speak French doesn't mean we are French. Haitians, Belgians, Swiss, they all speak French but they are not French.
 
2. Two referendums on Quebec's sovereignty have been held in the past here and the sovereignists (or "separatists") were defeated in both occasions (the first time by a wide margin and the second time by a very narrow margin).
 
But I do agree with you that sometimes referendums may not be the solution to the tricky question of self-determination especially in countries that do not have a very strong democratic tradition.
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 12:03
Originally posted by flyingzone

 
1. We are not "French". We are Qubcois. Just because we speak French doesn't mean we are French. Haitians, Belgians, Swiss, they all speak French but they are not French.


belgians doesnt speak french, south belgium wich they call it there as "Wallon" does only speak french. Belgium is trilangual country so 3 official languages are spoken there wich are; Dutch, french and German (from the part they took from Germany after WWII).
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  Quote Barbarroja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 13:04
To be 200 hundred countries is not a problem if there are freedom and if they are in peace, i don't want to have more territory in my country if they don't want to be here. But i don't agree with you, and fyingzone have already answer you, Quebecoises aren't French, and they have the posibility to be independent with elections, however West Sahara doesn't have this posibility. And we have to considere the previous history, Morocco claims Sahara without any historical reason.
And in Scothland, Wales and Basque country people can vote and decide their future, they are in freedom (well not in Basque country but in the oposite sense, the independentist people don't respect the other).
 
But the language is not the decisive factor to decide which territory is a nation or not. It has to be the opinon of the people, and the Saharauis don'y want to be in Morocco. They don't have the oportunity to decide, and the most important they have been moved from their land to camps in Argelia. The only pacific solution has to be a free election, but who can vote? I think only Saharauis that lived there before the invasion.
 
That situation does remember me another similar situation, Tibet, a poor people invaded by a more powerful nation while the rest of the world doesn't do anything. And the problem is very similar because China have moved milions of Chineses to Tibet and now Tibetan people is a minority in their own country, in a future free elections they won't have any posibility to win. It's another kind of imperialism. Or in the past with the conquest of the Far West by Americans.
I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 06:06
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Originally posted by Leonidas

i can only offer my personal opnion, have a free and fair election (that only inculdes the tribes) that live there. My sympathies go the polisaro though there is neighbourhood  politics behind the whole thing, as is always the case

Election are not the answer. The problem with elections is that if you start conducting them at the drop of a hat, their would be a thousand countries instead of the present close to 200. & all would keep on fighting with each other none of them able to do anything else or manage themselves. It would be total chaos.

Imagine the case - Would'nt the french want their own separate canada.
The hispanics would want a semi hispanic US, The africans would assert themselves in the south, mecedonians would want to separate from greece.

bad examples Vivek, your talking about countries already united. west sahara is a territory that is not a part of morrocco. So an example i prefer to use would be like when all the states of Australia volunteering to become federated into one country, this was done out of choice. West sahara must choose to be a part of morrocco first before it is incorperated otherwise you have a situation of invasion and take over.

Also the quebecs voted and chose not to be independant (by a slim margin if i remember and not that long ago), the fact they have the right is important and commendable.

While im totally comfortable for macedonian greece to go to the vote as much as i beleive kashmir, tibetan, uigher, scots, basque, baluchi's... almost any group deserve the same right. If people dont want to be a part of a country they should be forced or take up arms. Such rights can prevent conflicts rather than create them.

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

UK will be split into england, wales, northers ireland & scotland, the basques would separate. the case of bigger countries like china, india would be unimaginable...
imagine the seccesion of montenegro from serbia, (or the break up of yugoslavia), the czeks splitting with the slovaks, timor spliting from indonesia.. the break up of the USSR

anyway: fundamental rights of democray -  freedom of association.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 04:24
    Does Morocco have a right to claim West Sahara? Well, does any country have a right to claim territory other than its own?? The question should be rather, was it the best/most practicable thing for Morocco to claim the land? If the Moroccans got their act together and made something out of that land then I think they do! But letting it just simmer in constant violence ain't the right thing at all.
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