The "macedonians" in today`s republic of Macedonia

Originally posted by Leonidas If you want those figures and pictures for your benefit start a thread.

The article in wikipedia does not provide a source for the 1.5 million figure it quotes. Here is a more reliable academic source which puts the figure at half of what you have said:

The idea of exchanging the Greeks of Asia Minor against Muslims living in Greece was first broached by the Norwegian Fritjof Nansen (1861-1930), who had been the League of Nations� High Commissioner for refugees since 1919. It was quickly taken up by the Greek government. The inflow of three quarters of a million refugees posed almost insurmountable housing problems in Greece and the removal of the 600.000 Muslims in Greece would go some way towards alleviating the problem, as the vacated homes of the Muslims could be used to re-house the immigrants.

Originally posted by bg_turk Originally posted by Leonidas If you want those figures and pictures for your benefit start a thread. The article in wikipedia does not provide a source for the 1.5 million figure it quotes. Here is a more reliable academic source which puts the figure at half of what you have said: The idea of exchanging the Greeks of Asia Minor against Muslims living in Greece was first broached by the Norwegian Fritjof Nansen (1861-1930), who had been the League of Nations� High Commissioner for refugees since 1919. It was quickly taken up by the Greek government. The inflow of three quarters of a million refugees posed almost insurmountable housing problems in Greece and the removal of the 600.000 Muslims in Greece would go some way towards alleviating the problem, as the vacated homes of the Muslims could be used to re-house the immigrants.

Guys we are way off topic as Digenis said. (If mods want to delete my post no prob)

Again posting selective quotes bg-turk? From your source:

The resettlement of the refugees posed tremendous problems in Greece. The country, which had a population of only 5.5 millions was faced with an influx of about 1.2 million people (the actual numbers are surrounded by a lot of uncertainty). The immigrants were settled first in camps, then in townships on the outskirts of the towns and cities, especially in the two big cities Athens and Salonica.

The first effects of this policy could be seen in the early months of 1914. The secretary of the ruling Committee of Union and Progress (which had established a one-party dictatorship after a coup d��tat in January 1913) in Smyrna, Mahmut Cel�l (who was later to become Turkey�s third president) was instructed by Tal�t Pasha to Turkify the Western seaboard of Asia Minor. With the help of militias of the so-called �Special Organisation� he succeeded in forcing up to 200.000 Greek Orthodox to flee the coastal provinces and move to the Greek islands of the Aegean directly opposite the mainland.

Do the math...

I dont  think there are many people ,who read at least some history,and believe that citizens of FYROM are the descendants of ancient Macedonians.
But a name means much,and for someone who doesnt cares much about history,linking between ancient Macedonia and today FYRO.Macedonia will be direct...

Many claim that nobody is a real descendant of anc.Macedons or even all the countries of the Region are.
This isnt real.
Population mix cannot explain the existence of Greek speaking population of the area.
After all when Slavs came to the region,
they didnt find any people with "Macedonian" ethnic identity.
They found orthodox,greek-speaking (the koene greek) "Rhomaioi"=Romans=Byzantines. These (the descendants of Macedonians) are the ancestors of todays native greek speaking-orthodox population of the region.(now with "greek" national identity)
I cant see any reason this population to abandon in the medieval times its language (greek koene) and privilleges as being the natives with land and higher cultural level ,and turn to slavic,forming so the modern "macedonians".

Its obvious that FYROMS population is descendant of a mix of slavic settlers (Sklavenoi and some Bulgars) ,with Bulgarian ethnic identity until 20th century, and have almost nothing to do with ancient Macedonians.

Well i dont think all Sklavenoi were assimilated and became Rhomaioi(Byz).
And i dont think either there were many Proto-Bulgars in this region.

Originally posted by Subotai The teritory of FyROM from IX cent had always been part of bulgarian realm(and of Byzantium ofcourse, from time to time).And in this area there was a proto bulgarian settlements too, a group lead by Kuber, even that area was still in Byzantine emp.

Subotai and Charge,

I notice that you use the akward Greek acronym "fyrom" to refer to the Republic of Macedonia. May I remind you once again that the official policy of Bulgaria along with most other countries (bar Greece and its EU allies) is to recognize the Republic by its constitutional name. There is hardly any reason you should call the Republic of Macedonia "fyrom" unless of course you insist on emphasizing its links with Former Yugoslavia.

These are two more proofs for the bulgarian ethnic identity of the "macedonian" king Samuil and for the FACT that this king were a"BULGARIAN KING", but not "macedonian":

 

1.  Read why the byzantine emperor Basil II The Bulgar-Slayer (Greek: ��������� �������������� [Basileios Bulgaroktonus]) (958 � December 15, 1025) is "bulgar-slayer", but not "macedonian-slayer":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_II

http://members.fortunecity.com/fstav1/emperors/basilb.html

 

2.  The Bitola inscription made by order of Bulgarian Tsar Ivan Vladislav in 1015 or 1016 in connection with the fortification of the Bitola fortress was found in 1956 in Bitola, Republic of Macedonia and is stored at the Bitola Historical Museum.

The text of the inscription:

"In year 6253 (1015) since the creation of the world, this fortress, built and made by Ivan, Tsar of Bulgaria, was renewed with the help and the prayers of Our Most Holy Lady and through the intercession of her twelve supreme apostles. The fortress was built as a haven and for the salvation of the lives of the Bulgarians. The work on the fortress of Bitola commenced on the twentieth day of October and ended on the� This Tsar was Bulgarian by birth, grandson of the pious Nikola and Ripsimia, son of Aaron, who was brother of Samuil, Tsar of Bulgaria, the two who routed the Greek army of Emperor Basil at Stipone where gold was taken� and this� Tsar was defeated by Emperor Basil in 6522 (1014) since the creation of the world in Klyutch (the Battle of Kleidion) and died at the end of the summer."

Edited by The Chargemaster

Originally posted by Subotai I use FYROM only for the greek members not to feel anoyed.

The second reason for the using of "FYROM" is because PRECISELY the today`s republic of Macedonia is THE CORE of the propagation of the allegations for the "ancient macedonian origin" of the today`s slavic population who is living in and around the today`s republic of Macedonia.

Chargemaster I prefer if there is a quote from a book such as N. Velev "Iz politiko...",IP, XXIV,Sofjia,1968,75075 -K. Carnusanov, Makedonizmat....,76.

I know that there are some quotes in the net but I don't trust them.

Thanks anyway

Isnt slavomacadonian alittle more um old fashion that bulgarian, Closer to Old slavonic use in the first churches?

Yes, i think so.

I would rather say it is a serbianized bulgarian

Today`s official language of the republic of Macedonia - YES.