Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
merced12
General
Joined: 24-Sep-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 767
|
Topic: Scythians Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 19:19 |
first ,ataturk didnt create this theory,mahsin mayatek wrote
second it was theory
|
http://www.turks.org.uk/
16th century world;
Ottomans all Roman orients
Safavids in Persia
Babur in india
`azerbaycan bayragini karabagdan asacagim``
|
|
Iranian41ife
Arch Duke
Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832
|
Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 19:24 |
a thoery that was taught, and encouraged in turkey by the government.
anyway, this thread is done.
|
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
|
|
Behi
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2268
|
Posted: 13-Mar-2006 at 19:25 |
The theory but it seems many believe it
|
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz
Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 02:30 |
Oh, unless you dout in what Heroduts and other old historians said. They all belive Saramatians tend to be more from Steppe rather than Arian tribes. What's more, you think Alans were Arian? Completely mistake. Alans and Avars are described as relative tribes in which Saramtians were one of the members.
And we all know first Arian tribes left Eastern Europe and Western Caspian to the destination they named in honor of Ariya; now called Iran.
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 04:53 |
Alans were not Avars, Alans travelled with Avars, Alans also joined Huns and Vandals. And it was an Alanian king who led the confederate Roman army which defeated Atilla's forces at Orleans in France at the battle of Chalons, his name was King Sangiban, that is an Iranian name by all definitions.
http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/battles/chalons.html
Alans also settled into Iranian Kurdistan, the tribe ArdAlan are Alani and they had their own dialect similar to Osi. You can look at ancient artifacts and you will see Scyths/Sarms etc do not fit the ancient impression of Turks you have Gok Toruk. It is a fact that Persians, Medes and Parthians came to Iran from Central Asia. The name of Ashgabat has a Parthian root, for example, and farther a field other major central asian settlements have Iranian names (Samarqand, Balkh, Bukhara and etc). Turks pushed in and assimilated or pushed out the "Arian" nomads.
Among Scyths and Sarmatians body decoration was very popular (tattoos & piercings), also the scyths travelled with wagons, these were not Turkic traits. Body decoration was normal in Iran up until Islamic times.
You can see Assyrian records show that the Parsua and Medes came from the east, not North.
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/scythians_sacae. php
You can read this article on Sakae - it is NOT written by an Iranian.
Edited by Zagros
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 07:44 |
Originally posted by gok_toruk
Oh, unless you doubt in what Heroduts and other old historians said. They all belive Saramatians tend to be more from Steppe rather than Arian tribes. What's more, you think Alans were Arian? Completely mistake. Alans and Avars are described as relative tribes in which Saramtians were one of the members. And we all know first Arian tribes left Eastern Europe and Western Caspian to the destination they named in honor of Ariya; now called Iran. |
U need to show us some proof.And I seem to remember of herodotus saying that Scyths and Sarmats were kindred, not the other way around.
And explain where did we Serbs pick up some iranian words , names, and toponymus if not from the original Sarmatian Serbs mentioned by Pliny/Ptolemy as a tribe in Sarmatia?Like the name Urosh...compare it with Persian Kurosh (Cyrus).Or azhdaya (dragon)...comp. to Persian ezdeha.Or porsa (pig) in kurdish-in Serbian it's prase;raxna (hole) in Kurdish and raka in Serbian.
It's also a well-known fact that Ucrainian and Russian are heavily influenced by Iranian...the most logical explanation is the Scythian/Sarmatian influence.In fact, the slavic Antes are clearly connected to the term Alan-since it was a union of sarmato-slavic tribes.
|
"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock
|
|
Hushyar
Consul
Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 09:03 |
Originally posted by Shaman
This subject is very complicated but I hope forum members have an idea about origin of Scythians. |
In regard to this polling I just have some questions:
1)Origin of scythians is a scientific matter and can not be determinded by polling, It is not important how majority think about it, what is important is that what scientists and linquistists have found about them.
2)your option can be divided in two category IE and Altaic.All the turkic members and maybe our mongolian friends vote for altaic and other members who may consider this polling interesting will vote for IE option.
3)Iranian is a wrong term here.Iran is a geographical name and being Iranian means those who have lived in Iran .This term can be applied to Azeris too, whose language is Turkish but without doubt they are Iranian. Correct term here is Iranic which has a linguistic meaning.
4)In the options Uralic one has been forgotten while in one hundred years ago there were some theories about presence of some Uralic elements in scythians and actually it had much more scientific acceptance in those times than Altaic option nowadays.
|
|
Hushyar
Consul
Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 09:05 |
Hello gok_toruk
you said :
unless you dout in what Heroduts and other old historians said. They all belive Saramatians tend to be more from Steppe rather than Arian tribes.
|
well this is link to Herodotus history book , Volume 4 which deals with scythians.Unfortuantely I coudn't find any evidence for your quote.I would be thankfull if you help me to find it.
http://herodot.georgehinge.com/hdt4.html
thanks and take care of yourself and "sakht nagir" or something llike that.
|
|
Turkoglu
Pretorian
Joined: 06-Jan-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 176
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 09:54 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
i also heard that ataturk said all languages were of turkic origion.
|
don't believe everything you heard
Edited by Turkoglu
|
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 10:16 |
Salam Hushyar! Long time no see, hope everything is well with you! I completely agree, a poll is far too subjective to determine anythingof this nature, however, in Shaman's defense, he may have just been wishing to gain knowledge of people's opinion on the matter.
Turkoglu, Prsn and others, please do not continue that discussion in this thread.
|
|
Turkoglu
Pretorian
Joined: 06-Jan-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 176
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 11:04 |
Originally posted by Zagros
Turkoglu, Prsn and others, please do not continue that discussion in this thread. |
ok Zagros, sorry
|
|
|
DayI
Sultan
Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 11:16 |
interesting subject, unless its discussed on a civilised manner.
|
|
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz
Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 14:33 |
I didn't say Alans are Avars. Well, I didn't know they settled in Kurdistan. Anyhow, Sythians are said to be similiar to Saramatians everywhere. By the way, Ashghabat is quite meaningful in Turkic; could you please explain your claim?
Now I'm not saying they were Altaic; let alone for Turkic. I'm just surprised by what Herudot says.
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz
Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 14:45 |
Socrates, my friend, the two-volumed book 'History of the USSR' I'll suggest to have a look at it. Almost ten great Russian university professors have written this book; quite acceptable everywhere. It has covered everything about Sythians, Saramatians, Avars,... .
And about those words like 'porsa', I should say, they're not exclusive to Iranian. You know, Iranian is just one branch of Indo-European languages. Serbs have lived in Europe. There are a lot of words common in Iranain and German (you might say wow)... especially old Iranian is very simillar and understandable when compared to other European language. But the thing is that I don't mean Sythians are Altaic.
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|
gok_toruk
Arch Duke
9 Oghuz
Joined: 28-Apr-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1831
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 14:50 |
My dear Husiyar,
Hi there. Welcome back. How have you been? Thanks also for your kind post. Don't worry, 'sakht nemigiram'
I need time to give the exact link, since I didn't gain the information online. Anyhow, I'm more eager to know how you're doing...
|
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 17:59 |
Originally posted by gok_toruk
I didn't say Alans are Avars. Well, I didn't know they settled in Kurdistan. Anyhow, Sythians are said to be similiar to Saramatians everywhere. By the way, Ashghabat is quite meaningful in Turkic; could you please explain your claim? Now I'm not saying they were Altaic; let alone for Turkic. I'm just surprised by what Herudot says. |
Ashk-abad, Ashgabat, Turkicised version, what does it mean in Turkomen? It literally means "home of Ashkanians" (Parthians).
|
|
Iranian41ife
Arch Duke
Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 18:13 |
its known by all hsitorians that these lands were, and are still inhabited by iranic peoples, and tajiks still make up the majority in many of the historic cities of uzbekistan, that used to be persian till russia took them.
|
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
|
|
Hushyar
Consul
Joined: 16-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 301
|
Posted: 14-Mar-2006 at 23:12 |
Dear Zagros
Hello, Oh yes I came back after a long absence, and unfortunately I must go soon, But I am ready in every polling."ommat e hamisheh dar sahneh"
Dear Gok_toruk:
thank you every thing is good .And what I am doing?? , It is certainly have nothingto do with scythian History.Thats a truely freaky part of History.
So watch out. BTW you were a boxer, so you can take care of yourself.
Good luck
|
|
Suren
Arch Duke
Chieftain
Joined: 10-Feb-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1673
|
Posted: 15-Mar-2006 at 02:47 |
Originally posted by Shaman
This subject is very complicated but I hope forum members have an idea about origin of Scythians.
|
They were iranic even Herudot mention them as iranic people.
|
Anfører
|
|
Socrates
Baron
Joined: 12-Nov-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 416
|
Posted: 15-Mar-2006 at 07:37 |
Originally posted by gok_toruk
Socrates, my friend, the two-volumed book 'History of the USSR' I'll suggest to have a look at it. Almost ten great Russian university professors have written this book; quite acceptable everywhere. It has covered everything about Sythians, Saramatians, Avars,... .
And about those words like 'porsa', I should say, they're not exclusive to Iranian. You know, Iranian is just one branch of Indo-European languages. Serbs have lived in Europe. There are a lot of words common in Iranain and German (you might say wow)... especially old Iranian is very simillar and understandable when compared to other European language. But the thing is that I don't mean Sythians are Altaic.
|
Ok-porsa wasn't the most fortunate example......since the english word pork resembles it greatly.However-Urosh and Kurosh are far better examples-since the name is exlusive to serbia (as far as i know).Azhdaya and ezdeha are also very unique examples.
What i'm trying to say is that iranian( scythian/sarmatian/alan) lang. had strong ifluence on slavic languages.So how were the sarmats/alans turkics then?Where did we aquire all this iranian words?I forgot the rivers Don and Dniester....unquestionably sarmatian terms...
I don't have that much time to read that book...so just tell us in short terms what do these proffesors say.
|
"It's better to be a billionair for a lifetime then to live in poverty for a week"
Bob Rock
|
|