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Greatest Iranians (All Iranic Peoples): Past and Present.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Iranians (All Iranic Peoples): Past and Present.
    Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:26
Lors are Lors, not Persian, not Kurdish, but Lors, they are descended from Medeans.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:27

Tajiks are not Persians per se.  They are Persianised Soghdo-Bactrians (who spoke an Eastern Iranian language similar to Avestan and Scythian), Tajik, I beleive was the Turkic word for Central Asian Iranians, but Tajiks will say that it is Taj-ik - as in derived from the word taj, meaning crown.



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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:53
my mistake. you are right zagros. man, thats 2 strikes for me. LOL, i need to stop answering peoples questions.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:59

No probs, they were Persianised during the Samanid and later eras, and I use Persianised loosley, because to my knowledge, pahlavi persian resembled Hawramani Persian and today's Persian is Dari from Eastern Iran/Western Afghanistan and derived from Parthian.

 

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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:02
Originally posted by prsn41ife

Originally posted by barbar

 

I think the problem with some Iranian or Iranic guys here is mixing up the Iranian, Iranic, past and present. 

I just wonder, if the term Iranian is designated to the nationality, then What the Tajik greatmen should have to do something with you?

If Iranic( which is based on language) is considered here, then what the greatmen who spoke other than iranic should have to do with you?

As for the present and past, Soghdians were Iranic, but most of them had become Turkic. There are plenty of examples like this, aren't there?

Please be clear, when you claim something or someone to be part of your culture or history, then continue your logical discussions.

 

 

first of all, the thread is called "famous iranians (all iranic peoples)...." therefore, that includes all iranians, whether they are iranic or not, and also includes all iranic people whether they live in iran, china, or ossetia.

everyone posted in here is iranian, or iranic.

and tajiks are persians. tajiks are a branch of the persian tribe, ask any tajik, they will tell you that they are of the persian branch of indo iranian.

therefore, avicenna, khwarizmi, etc.... who were tajik, are also persian because the relation is very very very close between these two peoples. and i believe the other group of persians are the lors... but im not sure...

So many confusions. Don't make me repeat again, Iranic does't equal to Iranian. 

 

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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:06
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by barbar

 

I think the problem with some Iranian or Iranic guys here is mixing up the Iranian, Iranic, past and present. 

I just wonder, if the term Iranian is designated to the nationality, then What the Tajik greatmen should have to do something with you?

If Iranic( which is based on language) is considered here, then what the greatmen who spoke other than iranic should have to do with you?

As for the present and past, Soghdians were Iranic, but most of them had become Turkic. There are plenty of examples like this, aren't there?

Please be clear, when you claim something or someone to be part of your culture or history, then continue your logical discussions.

Tajiks are more Persian than Persians and they celebrate Iranian (nationality) heros as much as we celebrate theirs.

Still, they aren't Iranians, are they?

 

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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:08

Originally posted by prsn41ife

my mistake. you are right zagros. man, thats 2 strikes for me. LOL, i need to stop answering peoples questions.

At last you learnt something from IE. Please learn something, before you start blaing here.

 

 

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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:10

wow, barbar, go work on your english before you tell some one else to stop "blaing".

this thread is for famous iranian people, and famous iranic people. stop trolling.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:21

 

Are you a moderator? Stop lableing me. The title of this thread itself has a confusion from the start. I surely have the right to  raise my doubt.

BTW, "I love googling". This is the beauty of English. "blaing", I love this term. 

 



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  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 22:24

where are you from by the way?

anyway, dont worry about, just check out the thread, learn something new, and post some info yourself if you like.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2006 at 15:08

Barbar i advise you to respect AE rules, people like you have messed up many topics befor, and we don't want this thread be colsed. so stop trolling.

For sure you have the right to  raise your doubt, but please in a civilized way.

btw we don't need to be a moderatore to dislike trollers.



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  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2006 at 16:43

List of historical Iranian architects


The Kharāghān twin towers, built in 1053 CE, Qazvin Province.

The following is a list of Iranian architects, or Mi'mars to be more exact. It would not be incorrect to consider a Mi'mar the Islamic oriental equivalent of the western architect. The same can be said about the classical words Banna, Mohandes, Ostad, and Amal, which appear in classical manuals and references of Islamic architecture.

The Persian dictionay of Mo'in defines Mi'mar as:

  1. That who devises the design and plan of a building, and overlooks its construction.
  2. A Banna
  3. That who is responsible for the building, developing, and repairs of a structure or edifice (Emārat).

Needless to say, although many scholars do not recognize the Mimar and the Architect to historically be the same, they do agree that their responsibilities overlap extensively. In this list, they are taken to be the same.

The list is in chronological order, is not comprehensive, and selectively spans the Islamic age based on available records. There is little if any record of the numerous masters of architecture that built some of the early Islamic and pre-Islamic world's wonders of Iran. We do not know who built the palaces of Bishapur, Firouzabad, Persepolis, Susa, or the many other spectacular ancient edifices of Greater Iran. Sadly, no record of their names exists. Only the ruins of what they built give us a faint indication of what masters must have walked the face of this earth eons ago.

Many of the structures remaining today possibly had more than one architect working on them. Only one is mentioned in the following list, and only their most famous work is mentioned. The list also contains the names of builders whom exact dates have been attributed to their buildings.


Pre-Islamic


Gōr city
. The circular plan of Persian cities was a so called trademark of Parthian architecture and planning.

First four centuries of The Islamic Era

11th century

  • Hasan Ibn Ali: Designed Borj-e lajim near Firuzkuh near Tehran in 1021CE.
  • Ahmad Ibn Omar: Designed Mil-e Radkan near Gorgan in 1015CE.
  • Ali Ibn Mohammad Ibn Hosein Ibn Shah ul-Bana: Built the Pir e Alamdar monument in Damghan in 1025CE.
  • Abdolmalek Naqqash Mohandes: Built The Kushk-e No-e Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi in 1035CE.
  • Ahmad Ibn Abi Ali Ibn Yunes: Built the "Urta Ghapu" in the city of Darband in 1043CE.
  • AbdolWahhab Qazvini Ibn Fakhr Avar: Built Borj-e Toghrul in 1054CE in Ray.
  • Abul Ma'ali Muhammad Ibn Bakr al-Zanjani: Built the Kharaqan Towers in Qazvin Province in 1053CE.
  • Ostad al-Rashid Ibn Abubakr: Built the Mosque of Maku in West Azerbaijan in 1078CE.
  • Abubakr: Built the Rananatan mosque in Turkmenia in 1081CE.

12th century


Borje Toghrol, Ray
  • Mohammad Ibn Ali: Built the Dawlat Abad Minaret in Balkh in 1107CE.
  • AbdolHosein: Built the Robat or Caravanserai of Sharaf in Khorasan in 1152CE.
  • Ahmad Ibn Ismail: Built the Mosque of Gar near Isfahan in 1120CE.
  • Ali Ibn Uthman Ibn Ahmad Neishaburi: Built Maqbareh-i Shiravan.
  • Mohammad Ibn Aziz: Built the tomb of Sanjar in Turkmenia in 1127CE.
  • Muhammad Ibn Bandan al-Bana Ibn al-Mohsen: Built Gonbad-e Sorkh-e Maragheh in 1146CE.
  • Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Mahmud: Built Maghbareh-i baba Khatam in 1154CE.
  • Heydar Ali: Built the Congregation mosque of Ardestan, Isfahan, in 1158CE.
  • Muhammad Mimar: Built the Madrasah Badgheis in northern Afghanistan in 1174CE.
  • Imam Jamalideen Babviyeh Rafe'i: Built the Rampart of Qazvin in 1176CE.
  • Hasan Ibn Piruz al-Maraghei: Built the DiveRigi mosque near Sivas in Turkey in 1179CE.
  • Mohammad Ibn Rostam Ibn Ali Ibn Mohammad Ibn Hosein Ibn Hosein: Buil the Ghadamgah of Imam Rida in farasheh Taft, Khorasan in 1182CE.
  • Abu Mansur: Built the Seh-gonbad tomb in Urmia in 1183CE.
  • Muhammad Ibn al-Kateb al-Gilani: Built the Rampart of the city of Darband in 1183CE.
  • Ahmad Ibn Muhammad: Built Gonbad-e Kabud monument, where the mother of Hulegu is buried, in 1195CE.
  • Ibn Bahram: Built the tomb of Amir Shahanshah in Turkey in 1195CE.
  • Yusef Ibn Ali ibn Muhammad: Built the tomb of Khuraneq in Yazd in 1198CE.

13th century

  • Moslem: Built the Caravanserai of Sangbast in Khorasan in 1202CE.
  • Muhammad Rigi: Built Mil-e Radkan in Ghuchan in 1203CE.
  • Ahmad Ibn Bakr Marandi: Built the tomb of Keikavus in 1219CE.
  • Saeed Ibn Jafar al-Bana: Built a tower in Firouzabad, Fars.
  • Muahammad Ibn Ahmad Ibn Alavi: Built the Congregation mosque of Bunaft in Yazd in 1234CE.
  • Ostad Zeinuddin Abu Rasheed: Built Hisar Khalaj in Baku in 1234CE.
  • Ostad Enayatollah Ibn Nizamulddin Mimar Isfahani: Built the Gonbad-e Sabz in Kerman in 1242CE.
  • Muhammad ibn Muhammad ibn Uthman al-Bana al-Tusi: Built the Madrasah of Sir Chali in Konya in 1242CE.
  • Nizamuddin ibn Ostad Ali ibn Ali ibn Najjar: Built the Imamzadeh Seyd Jafar in Damghan in 1264CE.
  • Badreddin Tabrizi: Built the tomb of Rumi in Konya in 1273CE.
  • Zinul-abedin Mimar: Built the Congregation mosque of Urmia in 1276CE.
  • Ostad Ali ibn Hosein Ali al-Ghazi: Built the Tomb of Sheikh Yusef Sarvestani in Fars in 1280CE.
  • Muhammad al-Hosein al-Mohandes al-bana Damghani: Built the tower of Burj-e Kashaneh in Bistam in 1299CE.

14th century


The 8 minareted Soltaniyeh.
  • Ostad Ali Haji al-Sanai al-Semnani: Built the Forumad mosque of Jajaram in Khorasan in 1319CE.
  • Muhammad Shah Naqqash: Built the tomb of Pir-e Bakran in Isfahan in 1302CE.
  • Sayyed Ali Shah: Built the Dome of Soltaniyeh in Zanjan in 1303CE also a UNESCO world heritage site.
  • Masoud Kermani: Built the Mihrab of Imamzadeh Rabi'eh Khatun in Ashtarjan, Isfahan, in 1306CE.
  • Heydar Yabadr: Built the Mihrab of the Congregation mosque of Isfahan in 1310CE.
  • Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn al-Bana: Built the Congregation mosque of Ashtarjan, Isfahan, in 1314CE.
  • Muhammad ibn Hasan ibn Ibitalib Mohandes Bana al-Damghani and his brother Haji: Built the tomb of Bayazid Bastami in 1323 CE.
  • Ostad Muhammad ibn Jamal Ahmad: Built the Burj-i Dozal tower near Tabriz.
  • Abu Taleb Damghani: Built Imamzadeh Jafar in Isfahan in 1324CE.
  • Muhammad ibn Umar al-Sheikh: Built the northern Iwan of Madraseh-i Imami in Isfahan in 1324CE.
  • Ali Qazvini: Built the Congregation mosque of varamin in 1321CE.
  • Ali ibn Ibrahim: Built the mosque of Tajang, Yazd, 1328CE.
  • Ostad Aghajan ibn Damavandi: Built the Imamzadeh Abdollah in Damavand in 1329CE.
  • Haji Muhammad al-Bana Savoji: Built the Caravanserai of Seen in Isfahan in 1330CE.
  • Khajeh Hosein ibn Seifuddin Mahmud ibn Taj Khajeh: Built the Congregation mosque of Marand in 1339CE.
  • Falaki Tabrizi: Built Arg-e Alishah in 1337CE.
  • Mafakhir an-Najjar Ustad Hasan ibn Jamal Ahmad Shir Gir: Built Imamzadeh Ghasem Azna in 1337CE.
  • Sayyed Ali Amir Hosein al-Bukhari: Built Bogh'eh Mir Muhamad in Kharg island in 1339CE.
  • Shokrollah: Built Congregation Mosque of Kerman, in 1348CE.
  • Ustad Shamsiddin: Built the tomb of Shu-juk Beiga, sister of Tamerlane in Samarkand in 1370CE.
  • Khajeh Hosein-e Shirazi: Built The Mausoleum of Khoja Ahmed Yasavi in Kazakhstan in 1396CE.
  • Ustad Shirazi Mimar: Built the Caravanserai of Dehbeed in Fars in 1384CE.
  • Ustad Arif ibn Ustad Musa Jibal: Built The haji Sheikhleh Emarate in Shiravan in 1384CE.
  • Ustad Ghashtasb ibn Musa: Built the public bath of Haji Zainuddin Damghani in sharvanshahan in 1387CE.

15th century


Goharshad mosque built in 1418 CE by the orders of Goharshad, wife of Shah Rukh.
  • Muhammad ibn Mahmud al-Isfahani: Built the Gur-i Amir, tomb of Tamerlane, in Samarkand in 1403CE.
  • Sayyed Ali ibn Sayyed Kamaluddin Banna Amuli: Built the Burj-i Sultan Zainul-abideen in Sari in 1406CE.
  • Ghavameddin Shirazi: Built the Goharshad mosque in 1417 CE.
  • Hasan Jafar Ustad Mimar Bashi: Built the Imamzadeh Abdollah tomb in Bafq.
  • Muhammad ibn Ghadir aka Ajor-tarash: Built the Darb-i Imam mosque in Isfahanin 1427CE.
  • Pasha ibn Bakshah Jamshid: Built the Emarat Shah Balu in the village of Ahu Dasht Natel Rastaq in 1435CE.
  • Ustad Haji Ahmad: Built The Ghal'eh Ghar Khalar in Darband in 1437CE.
  • Khajeh Mahmud Haj Zein Jame' Shirazi: Built the Mazar-e Sheikh Ahmad Jam complex in Khorasan in 1439CE.
  • Abdolqadir Isfahani: Built the mosque of Dabbagh-khaneh in Ankara in 1443CE.
  • Ustad Hasan ibn Ali Husein Bana Amuli: Built three extant structures in the village of Kajur in around 1443CE.
  • Ustad Ghitheddin Shirazi: Built the Congregation mosque of Khargerd in Khorasan in 1443CE.
  • Haydar Nafji: Built the Khanqah of Nasr-abad in Isfahan in 1445CE.
  • Shamsoddin Muhammad Tabrizi: Built the Mosque of Shah (Masjed-i Shah) in Mashad in 1451CE.
  • Ustad Shamsoddin Ibn Nasrollah Motahhari: Built the Imamzadeh Soltan Mohammad Taher in babol in 1470CE.
  • Mohammad ibn Mahmud Bastami: Built the mosque of Masjed-i Sorkhan in Bastam in 1477CE.
  • Hosein ibn Ali ibn Ahmad Lahijani: Built the mausoleum of Samām in Gilan in 1478CE.
  • Darvish Nureddin: Built the mausoleum of Imamzadeh Ali in Shekar-nāb village near Qazvin in 1479CE.
  • Muhammad Ravan-i Qazvini: He and Haj Abbas ibn Mahmud Qazvini both built the pol-i dokhtar bridge in Miyaneh in Qazvin Province in 1483CE.
  • Yaqub Ruyani: Built both the Sim-rud river bridge in Lahijan as well as the polur river bridge notheast of Damavand in 1486CE.

16th century


Howzeh Feyzieh Seminary in Qom is the seat of Iran's largest seminary and theological center today.
  • Bayazid ibn Haji Javad: Built the Imamzadeh Yahya shrine in Larijan in 1513CE.
  • Ostad Hosein Khorasani: Re-built the tomb of Sheikh Abdol-Samad in Natanz in 1514CE.
  • Ustad Mir Ahmad ibn Mir Haji Qomi: Built the Masjed-e Jame'i Saveh mosque in Saveh in 1516CE.
  • Farabi ibn Uthman Sa'di: Built the Masjed-i Bozorg-i Ghal'eh-i Hasan Keifa mosque in 1520CE.
  • Ustad Hosein: Built the Mausoleum of Harun Velayat near Isfahan in 1521CE.
  • Ustad Shamseddin Isfahani:Built the Mausoleum of Imamzadeh Hamzeh in Bavanat in 1528CE.
  • Ibrahim ibn Ustad Ismail banna Isfahani: Responsible for Isfahan Congregation Mosque in 1531CE.
  • Taqi Sultan Qomi: Built the famous Feyziyeh Qom seminary in Qom in 1532CE.
  • Sani'ullah Mimar-i Yazdi: Built the Congregation mosque of Yazd in 1539CE.
  • Ustad Shah Hosein Lahiji: Built the mausoleum of Agha Sheikh Abolvajih near Lahijan in 1540CE.
  • Heydar Ali Ardestani: Built the popular shrine of Imamzadeh Mahruq in Neyshabur in 1545CE.
  • Sayyed Muhammad ibn Mirak Ghiyathuddin: Built the World Heritage Site of Humayun's Tomb in India in 1562CE.

17th century



Isfahan's Shah Mosque, a jewel of Safavid design.
  • Ahmad Sepah Banna: Built the Qeysarieh bazaar of Lar in 1605CE.
  • Sultan Muhammad Yazdi: Built the caravanserai and Bathhouse of Ganjali khan in Kerman in 1610CE.
  • Ustad Ali Akbar Isfahani: He and two other associates built the Shah Mosque of Isfahan between 1612 and 1631.
  • Ustad Hosein Shamā'ie Shirazi: Built the Madreseh Khan in Shiraz in 1615CE.
  • Sheikh Bahai: Designed a dam (band) in Qahrud, 35km south of Kashan in 1616CE.
  • Abdol-jabbar: Built the Madreseh Shirdar in Shiraz in 1618CE.
  • Muhammad Reza ibn Ustad Hosein Banna Isfahani: Built the Sheikh Lotf Allah Mosque in Isfahan in 1618CE.
  • Shah Taher ibn Sultan Muhammad Naqqash: Built the mausoleum of Sheikh Jabrail in 1621CE near Ardabil.
  • Ustad Muhammad Banna: Built the Robat of Shah Abbas Polur near Lar in 1624CE.
  • Ustad Hoseinali: Built the Imamzadeh Ismail in isfahan in 1632CE.
  • Muhammad Ali ibn ustad Alibeyk-i banna Isfahani: Built the Masjed-i Hakim mosque in Isfahan in 1661CE.
  • Ustad Qasem Mimar: Built the caravanserai of Damghan in 1680CE.
  • Muhammad Taher Hamadani: Built the Masjed-i soltani in Asad-abad in Hamedan in 1685CE.
  • Ustad Taher valad ustad Reza Isfahani: Built the Caravanserai of Sheikh Ali-khan a.k.a. Chaleh siyah-i no in 1686CE in Isfahan.
  • Heydar ibn Hosein banna Isfahani: Built the masjed-i varzaneh mosque of Isfahan in 1687CE.
  • Mehdi Hoseini: Built a dam (band) near the village of shamanlu over Zayandeh rud river in 1689CE.
  • Ustad Isa Shirazi: He and many others were responsible for building the Taj Mahal in Agra in India.

18th century

  • Muhammad Hadi Qazvini: Built the masjed-i muhaddathayn-i sheikh-i kabir mosque in Babol in 1723CE.
  • Ostad baqer Isfahani: Built the Minarat of Kashan's Congregation mosque, 1779CE.
  • Ustad Mirza Shirazi: Built the Al-Nabi Mosque, Qazvin in 1787CE.
  • Ustad Iskandar Shirazi: Built the Masjed Soltani mosque of Borujerd in 1794CE.
  • Karbalaee Muhammad-i banna: Built the Masjed-i Qajar mosque in astar-abad in Hamedan in 1796CE.
  • Ustad Haj Sha'ban-ali: Built the Masjed-i Agha bozorg in Kashan in the late 1700s.

19th century



Abasian House In Kashan
  • Ustad Ali Maryam: Built the Tabatabaei House and Borujerdi-ha House and Timcheh Amin al-dowleh in Kashan in the mid 19th century.
  • Muhammad Shafi' Mimar: Built the Madreseh Soltani in Kashan in 1810CE.
  • Safar Ali Isfahani: Built the Masjed Soltani mosque in Semnan in 1826CE.
  • Ustad Hosein Mimar: Built the Masjed-i Jame' Hamadan in Hamadan in 1837CE.
  • Mirza Mehdi Khan-shaghāghi Momtahen al-dowleh: Built the royal gardens of Madreseh Sepahsalar along with Mahmud Mimar and Ustad Ismail Qomi.
  • Ustad Muhammad Quli Shirazi: Built the Masjed-i Haj Rajab-ali in Khoongāh in south Tehran in 1845CE.
  • Muhammad Taqi khan Mimar-Bashi: Built the Darolfonoon in 1849CE.
  • Ustad Jabbar Tabrizi: Built the Madreseh-i Akbariyeh in Tabriz in 1854CE.
  • Abdollah khan Mimar-bashi: Built the current Arg-i Tehran
  • Haji Abol-hasan Mimar Navai: Built Golestan Palace to its current form in 1865CE.
  • Ustad Muhammad-ali Kashi: Built the Kushak of Shams-ol-Emareh in 1867CE.
  • Ustad Aghajuni Mimar: Built Masjed Rahim-khan in Isfahan in 1872.
  • Ustad Ali-akbar son of Ustad Baqer: Built the famous Arab ha House in Isfahan in 1880.
  • Arfa'ol molk: Built the Tabriz City Hall in 1895, with the aid of German engineers.

20th century


Tabriz City Hall, by Arfa'ul Mulk

Contemporary


Inside Iran


Outside Iran


Fariborz Sahba's Lotus Temple in India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Persian_architects


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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2006 at 08:52
Originally posted by Maziar

Barbar i advise you to respect AE rules, people like you have messed up many topics befor, and we don't want this thread be colsed. so stop trolling.

For sure you have the right to  raise your doubt, but please in a civilized way.

btw we don't need to be a moderatore to dislike trollers.

I don't like trollers, either. But I never try to lable or blame someone on that as I'm not a moderator and it's none of my business.

I did raise my doubt in a civilized way, reread my posts. I just couldn't understand why you took them that way.

 

 

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2006 at 14:58

I don't like trollers, either. But I never try to lable or blame someone on that as I'm not a moderator and it's none of my business.

I did raise my doubt in a civilized way, reread my posts. I just couldn't understand why you took them that way.


Really???

but I recall bad memories about your past posts
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  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Apr-2006 at 17:53

Ala'iddin Ata-ul-Mulk Juvayni (1226 - 1283) was a Persian historian who wrote the famous Tarikh-i-Jehan Ghusha (finished in 1259CE).

This account of the Mongol invasions of his homeland Iran, written based on survivor accounts, is one of the main sources on the rapid sweep of Genghis Khan's armies through the nomadic tribes of Tajikstan and the established cities of the Silk Route including Otrar, Bukhara, and Samarkand in 1219, and successive campaigns until Genghis Khan's death in 1227 and beyond.

His writing is sometimes inflated, as when he estimates the strength of the Mongol army at 700,000, against other accounts that put the number between 105,000 and 130,000. His descriptions are often written from a sense of drama: of the fall of Assassin castle Maymun-Diz in November 1256, where he was present at the siege, he desrcibes the effect of trebuchet (catapult) bombardment on the battlements:

The first stones which were discharged from them broke the defenders' trebuchet and many were crushed under it. Fear of the quarrels from the crossbows overcame them so that they were in a complete panic and tried to make shields out of veils [i.e. they did best to defend with very indadequate equipment.] Some who were standing on towers crept in their terror like mice into holes or fled like lizards into the crannies of the rocks.

Juvayni's descriptions are however a very valuable resource for contemporary Mongol history, along with the work of Rashid al-Din, and the Mongol/Chinese version Secret History of the Mongols.

One of his convincing descriptions is that of the Mongol hunt or nerge as an army training exercise for the nomadic Mongols. In a nerge the whole army rounded up all the animals over a large region, in order to obtain dried meat before the onset of winter. In the time of Genghis Khan, the nerge was converted into an exercise in discipline with severe punishments for commanders of tens, hundreds, or thousands, who let animals escape. Once rounded up, the animals were ruthlessly massacred, first by the Khan, then by princes, and finally, only after so commanded, by all the army. This was to form a model for the ruthlessness of Mongol attacks on well-established human settlements.

Much of this record of ruthlessness may however, have been exaggerated, possibly because there was no stigma against killing of resistors in the Mongol ethos. For example, after the fall of Merv in Turkmenistan, the people were rounded up and distributed among the soldiers in tens, hundreds and thousands, and each man in the remaining Mongol army was assigned the execution of "three to four hundred people." However, there is no doubt that this type of savagery was part of the terror spread by the Mongol army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ata_al-Mulk_Juvayni

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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 00:58
Originally posted by barbar

 

I think the problem with some Iranian or Iranic guys here is mixing up the Iranian, Iranic, past and present. 

I just wonder, if the term Iranian is designated to the nationality, then What the Tajik greatmen should have to do something with you?

If Iranic( which is based on language) is considered here, then what the greatmen who spoke other than iranic should have to do with you?

As for the present and past, Soghdians were Iranic, but most of them had become Turkic. There are plenty of examples like this, aren't there?

Please be clear, when you claim something or someone to be part of your culture or history, then continue your logical discussions.

 

 

This is my first post in this thread. Is it considered to be trolling and in uncilivised way?  Just send PM to the moderators, I'd be happy to accept warning.

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 01:34
Originally posted by barbar

Originally posted by barbar

 

I think the problem with some Iranian or Iranic guys here is mixing up the Iranian, Iranic, past and present. 

I just wonder, if the term Iranian is designated to the nationality, then What the Tajik greatmen should have to do something with you?

If Iranic( which is based on language) is considered here, then what the greatmen who spoke other than iranic should have to do with you?

As for the present and past, Soghdians were Iranic, but most of them had become Turkic. There are plenty of examples like this, aren't there?

Please be clear, when you claim something or someone to be part of your culture or history, then continue your logical discussions.

 

 

This is my first post in this thread. Is it considered to be trolling and in uncilivised way?  Just send PM to the moderators, I'd be happy to accept warning.

 

yes it is.

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  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2006 at 19:04
I didn't mean here, it was about Taj Mahal
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 12:04

 

But you used plural form, like "past posts".

Why didn't you mention it in that thread? Good memory though. In my defense, you were claiming a masterpiece which is the result of a collaborative work of so many artists from many countries, as Persian. I think someone should say something, as this is a forum.

 

Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 12:10

Guys don't post/reply to anything not conerned with the topic's subject.

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