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European Press shows solidarity with threatened Danish cartoonist

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: European Press shows solidarity with threatened Danish cartoonist
    Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:09
Originally posted by TeldeIndus

In 1988, fundamentalist Christians in several nations vented rage and violence because a movie, "The Last Temptation of Christ," portrayed Jesus as a wavering human, lusting for the prostitute Mary Magdalene

A Parisian theater showing the film was firebombed, sending 13 people to hospitals. Another at Besancon, France, suffered a similar attack. Tear gas was loosed in some French moviehouses. Israel's government banned the film.

In America, theaters were ransacked, one was burned, another had its screen slashed, and a screaming protester crashed a bus into a theater lobby. About 25,000 evangelicals picketed Universal Studios in Hollywood, and smaller throngs protested in several cities. Catholic bishops and TV evangelists denounced the movie angrily. Some filed lawsuits and appealed to politicians in attempts to ban it. Campus Crusade for Christ leader Bill Bright offered $10 million to buy the movie and burn it. Most theaters in the southern United States, fearing savage reprisals, refused to show the film.

Good post TeldeIndus. These are new information to me too. At least it proves why the Danish newspaper thought of not provoking Christians again and refused the anti-Christ caricatures.

Looks like history is repeating itself, except with Muslims now.

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:14

Originally posted by ok ge

When you publish a caricature of the Christ, you are not going to fuel anti-Christian sentiment of course in Europe

How do you know?

Originally posted by ok ge

But you will do so with the case of Muslims

You act very sensitive, why cartoons against jesus is not meant offensive to christians, but Mohammad cartoons are for muslims? this is only your opinion. I m very sure there is something missed by muslimes: tolaerance! don't you think?

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:22
Originally posted by TeldeIndus

Originally posted by gcle2003

You don't appear to understand the difference between 'sue' and 'prosecute'.

 

According to Webster's dictionary, the verb "To sue" means

"2. (Law) To prosecute; to make legal claim; to seek (for
        something) in law; as, to sue for damages.
        [1913 Webster]"

Well, the 1913 edition was misleading. The 1970 edition corrects that:

"3. Law a) to petition  (a court) for legal redress. b) to bring civil action against or prosecute in a court of law in seeking justice or redress of wrongs."

The confusion arises from the double meaning of 'prosecute'. 'Prosecute' has a general meaning of simply 'follow up or pursue' which is the way it is being used here. In the technical sense however, prosecution again from the 1970 Websters is:

"conducting a criminal proceeding against a person".

Any individual (or group) may sue for damages in civil court. The person suing is the plaintiff, the one responding is the respondent, though in the US particularly he is often referred to as the defendant.

The State, through its prosecuting attorneys or the police, may prosecute a person for a criminal act. One side is then the prosecution, the other the defence. Except in rare instances, a civil individual cannot bring a criminal prosecution.

You sue when you believe someone has wronged you personally - whether or not the other person's action was illegal or not. The state prosecutes when it believes the law has been broken.

You cannot be prosecuted for a legal action . You can be sued for a legal action, if it harmed someone else.

 

 

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:22
Originally posted by Maziar

How do you know?

Maybe if you read other posts you will know it too. Read TeldeIndus post please.

Originally posted by Maziar

You act very sensitive, why cartoons against jesus is not meant offensive to christians, but Mohammad cartoons are for muslims? this is only your opinion. I m very sure there is something missed by muslimes: tolaerance! don't you think?

Cartoon of Jesus is not offensive to Christians? Again, I urge you to read TeldeIndus post please. All posts here are equally important.

Also, I''m not sure where is it sensitive here? I stated that with those caricatures, you will fuel anti-Muslim sentiment and I stated at the same time ( 2 posts earlier) an example of such a correlation (which was repeated from another earlier post i posted too).

Tolerance? Europe history till 1995 (Balkan war ending) has got everything except tolerance. 



Edited by ok ge
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  Quote krios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:24
I read some posts where people asks themelves why they cannot question holocaust. Because it happened thats why!

And you are all so ignorant comparing simple cartoons making fun out of muslims and cartoons making fun out of holocaust. You should all rethink where you stand in life and are your perceptions of world and history right and good !

And that picture published by iranian newspaper with anne frank and hitler in bed saying she should write this to her diary is just discusting. I really dont believe muslims anymore. They are full of sh*t and trying to deny holocaust.

They think holocaust is what west is doing to them ! Well sure west is not killing all muslims transporting them to concentration camps ...all childreen women, old people .... making experiments, cutting teeth to get gold etc....
Think about it what was holocaust and what are some stupid cartoons some stupid danish newspapper published.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:26
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by gcle2003

In Denmark?

Holocaust denial isn't an offence in all European countries. Or the US. The specific reason why holocaust denial is outlawed in the previously Nazi countries is because it is connected with the rise of neo-Nazism.

Bengo! and what has been said earlier too 4 pages earlier. These caricatures fuel anti-Muslim sentiments. When you publish a caricature of the Christ, you are not going to fuel anti-Christian sentiment of course in Europe! But you will do so with the case of Muslims. And as I have said it three times already, in Septemeber, the caricature appeared and has been circulated around since in Europe. By November, a mosque was bombed in Vienna and increased attacks were recorded by many European organizations.

I notice you ducked the question.

You are claiming - or at least insinuating that in Denmark and the rest of Europe it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. That simply isn't true of most of Europe.

I repeat: What you say is just not true in most of Europe, and you have not produced any evidence that it is.

Whether or not it is true in Denmark in particular I do not know. Nor I suspect do you. Yet you maintain it.

 

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:30

Originally posted by krios

They think holocaust is what west is doing to them ! Well sure west is not killing all muslims transporting them to concentration camps ...all childreen women, old people .... making experiments, cutting teeth to get gold etc....
Think about it what was holocaust and what are some stupid cartoons some stupid danish newspapper published.

Good, this anger of yours explain the Muslims anger too.

Hundreds of years of terrorizing, crusaders who eat people flesh (check Ma'arra village in Wikipedia), and colonization (Algerian and Libyan tortures, executions, and mass murders), and support of dictators in the region by France, UK and the USA, and the end, Muslims are mocked for terrorism?

Also, there is a big difference between denying the Holocaust, and questioning it. Are they 6 millions as claimed? Actually there are more evidance that proves the number way way lower than this. Check the writings of the Israeli professor Israel Shahak on that subject.

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:32
Originally posted by gcle2003

I notice you ducked the question.

You are claiming - or at least insinuating that in Denmark and the rest of Europe it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. That simply isn't true of most of Europe

I don't see where I said other European countries have that law. Im concerned with Denmark and I have talked about Denmark double standing. Check the post again please.

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  Quote krios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:36
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by krios

They think holocaust is what west is doing to them ! Well sure west is not killing all muslims transporting them to concentration camps ...all childreen women, old people .... making experiments, cutting teeth to get gold etc....
Think about it what was holocaust and what are some stupid cartoons some stupid danish newspapper published.

Good, this anger of yours explain the Muslims anger too.

Hundreds of years of terrorizing, crusaders who eat people flesh (check Ma'arra village in Wikipedia), and colonization (Algerian and Libyan tortures, executions, and mass murders), and support of dictators in the region by France, UK and the USA, and the end, Muslims are mocked for terrorism?

Also, there is a big difference between denying the Holocaust, and questioning it. Are they 6 millions as claimed? Actually there are more evidance that proves the number way way lower than this. Check the writings of the Israeli professor Israel Shahak on that subject.



Hmm and muslims are not terorizing .... come on ... just look at africa ... much much much more killed by muslims than muslims killed by christians... but who cares africa right

Dont go that you muslims are victims ... but that is muslim pattern ... always crying how you are victims !
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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:42
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by Maziar

How do you know?

Maybe if you read other posts you will know it too. Read TeldeIndus post please.

Originally posted by Maziar

You act very sensitive, why cartoons against jesus is not meant offensive to christians, but Mohammad cartoons are for muslims? this is only your opinion. I m very sure there is something missed by muslimes: tolaerance! don't you think?

Cartoon of Jesus is not offensive to Christians? Again, I urge you to read TeldeIndus post please. All posts here are equally important.

Also, I''m not sure where is it sensitive here? I stated that with those caricatures, you will fuel anti-Muslim sentiment and I stated at the same time ( 2 posts earlier) an example of such a correlation (which was repeated from another earlier post i posted too).

Tolerance? Europe history till 1995 (Balkan war ending) has got everything except tolerance. 

I read all posts befor and i disagree, please answer my question

Cartoon of Jesus is not offensive to Christians?

you claimed not me, i am asking you

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:43

Originally posted by krios


Hmm and muslims are not terorizing .... come on ... just look at africa ... much much much more killed by muslims than muslims killed by christians... but who cares africa right

Dont go that you muslims are victims ... but that is muslim pattern ... always crying how you are victims !

You are totally out of topic buddy. Now, it is obvious you have not invested a single moment thinking before you post. Ok let us start now counting as you claim. Let me help you first.

Add ONE MILLION of Rawanda genocide. Or this is also the work of Muslims?

By the way, you are from Slovenya, not far from the Balkan war. I guess you can tell us more how in the heart of Europe, this barbaric genocide occured? Against whom?

I hope your next post is more productive with at least some numbers or effort. Anyone here can throw a claim as easy as farting.



Edited by ok ge
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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:49

Originally posted by Maziar

I read all posts befor and i disagree, please answer my question

Then if you read the post, you should have known what has been done in secular europe and in the USA for the movie that was considered an anti-Christ movie. Compare that incidence with the Muslims anger now. Does it sound unjustified?

Originally posted by Maziar

you claimed not me, i am asking you

Again, if you read the post, you would have noticed that half of it, is about an example of how is that movie was considered an anti-christian.

Also, if you have followed with the news and the post of Zagros earlier about how the Danish newspaper refused a provoking anti-christ caricature because it might be distasfull and provoking, you would have known naturally that for the newspaper to reject it based on the fear it might provoke, then it is obvious to any individual that an anti-christ caricature is a provoking anti-christian caricature. Simple as that.



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:50
Originally posted by Mortaza

I'm talking about Human Rights... and if Arabs can discuss and interfere on what we do in Europe, we can also discuss and interfere on what you do in Arabia.


well If I am not  wrong  you were against arab meddling to europea, but now you force them change their laws. errr? did I miss something?


That I got tired of barbarian book-worshippers of telling us what to do. Now I will tell you what to do. Is it clear?


It seems we are already in the globalized world... and Mecca and Copenhagen are just a near the other... Why is such a tyranny as Saudi Arabia accepted in the UN? Why do some people have problems with Iran and not with Saudi Arabia?

lets ask question a little different, why do some people have problems with  iran. Iran is neither inside usa nor europea.

why dont you just interest  with your own countries?


It seems that we can't publish cartoons in our own countries...

Equally it seems that you can't impose the sharia anymroe in your own countries... something that your women and your dissident will tank.


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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:53

Some things that I have learned from this whole cartoon fiasco are:

- That the Europeans will brandish their rights for a free press thorugh intentional ways so as to bring home to light their ability to maintain the gift of gab. Dignity be damned.

- Those who defend this manner of free speech are really hypocrites. If the shoe were to be placed on the other foot would they dare stand out against free speech when a cartoon depicting them or their religious Icons were published?  Or even against the holocaust or genocide? 

- The current cartoons have also shown the wide disparity between the manner in which many extremist Moslems hold dear their religion and guard it to extreme costs versus the civil manner that most Moslems have shown through discussion, peaceful protests and letter to various editors.

- Perhaps due to governmental screening and censor, many Moslem countries do not have the sophisticated methods and experience in defaiming their own prophets. Maybe the Europeans can teach Moslem countries the art of critical defamation. Such a noble art it it seems to be.

- ... 



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:54
Originally posted by TeldeIndus

Also, someone put up on another thread about some silly analogy of Hindus and beef, but this isnt the same thing since Hinduism is very broad, and there is no consensus on the cow, whether it's edible or not. Some Hindus eat it, some do not. Ancient scripts suggest that it's edible, and Hinduism has a dharmaric and adharmaric concept. But this ambiguous religious symbol does not stop people from acting violently or protesting.



I posted that a better example is that the Simpsons made a fake Ganesha to take part in one of their episodes.

I have yet to hear of a single protest.

Shiva and other Hindu iconography as commonly been used (and sometimes abused) by westerners withiout causing any unrest.

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:54
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by Maziar

I read all posts befor and i disagree, please answer my question

Then if you read the post, you should have known what has been done in secular europe and in the USA for the movie that was considered an anti-Christ movie. Compare that incidence with the Muslims anger now. Does it sound unjustified?

Originally posted by Maziar

you claimed not me, i am asking you

Again, if you read the post, you would have noticed that half of it, is about an example of how is that movie was considered an anti-christian.

Also, if you have followed with the news and the post of Zagros earlier about how the Danish newspaper refused a provoking anti-christ caricature because it might be distasfull and provoking, you would have known naturally that for the newspaper to reject it based on the fear it might provoke, then it is obvious to any individual that an anti-christ caricature is a provoking anti-christian caricature. Simple as that.

Ok, if you want to duke, so this is your right, i won't disturb you with it anymore.

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 08:58

Originally posted by Maziar

Ok, if you want to duke, so this is your right, i won't disturb you with it anymore.

So it is duking now when it is clarified? Sorry I don't share your vision. I just hope you appreciate answering your one line question with a paragraph. Will be benificial for both if you pointed out where exactly you are missing the point.

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 09:02
Originally posted by Seko

- Those who defend this manner of free speech are really hypocrites. If the shoe were to be placed on the other foot would they dare stand out against free speech when a cartoon depicting them or their religious Icons were published?  Or even against the holocaust or genocide? 

Thanks a lot Seko for calling us hypocrites. So you recommend us to shut up our mouth and hide our opinion inside and never talk about it, so muslims will like us better? if i shut up and hide my opinion, i would be a real hypocrite, becouse i will only say what others will like. don't you think?



Edited by Maziar
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 09:04
Originally posted by Seko

Some things that I have learned from this whole cartoon fiasco are:

- That the Europeans will brandish their rights for a free press thorugh intentional ways so as to bring home to light their ability to maintain the gift of gab. Dignity be damned.


Ehm... we're talking about Denmark, not Iran or Palestine.

I feel that some Muslims are brandishing their supposed rights and apparent outrage to make politics in their nations. They are attacking poor Denmark for their own reasons without even taking in account how all this issue may affect Muslims of Europe.

Personally, I didn't stop buying in Muslim shops after 9/11 or 3/11... but I have abandoned Muslim commerces now... as I feel myself threatened by Muslim intolerance.


- Those who defend this manner of free speech are really hypocrites. If the shoe were to be placed on the other foot would they dare stand out against free speech when a cartoon depicting them or their religious Icons were published?  Or even against the holocaust or genocide?


As you know, I have no prob with questioning the Holocaust or whatever. In any case, I think that mocking a victim (like Jews in Nazi Germany, Africans in Belgian Cogo, Native Americans in the USA or Palestinians in Gaza) is of bad taste... but satirizing a religious figure isn't.


- The current cartoons have also shown the wide disparity between the manner in which many extremist Moslems hold dear their religion and guard it to extreme costs versus the civil manner that most Moslems have shown through discussion, peaceful protests and letter to various editors.


Yes, fascist Muslims do create a very bad image of all Muslims.


- Perhaps due to governmental screening and censor, many Moslem countries do not have the sophisticated methods and experience in defaiming their own prophets. Maybe the Europeans can teach Moslem countries the art of critical defamation. Such a noble art it it seems to be.

- ... 



Maybe...

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 09:04
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by Maziar

Ok, if you want to duke, so this is your right, i won't disturb you with it anymore.

So it is duking now when it is clarified? Sorry I don't share your vision. I just hope you appreciate answering your one line question with a paragraph. Will be benificial for both if you pointed out where exactly you are missing the point.

Read my post and you will get my point.

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