Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Secret power of Mongol Conquerors

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Secret power of Mongol Conquerors
    Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 21:42

I read about mongol conquest.

1. Army Discipline

2. Great generals

3. Great leader

4. Combat tactics

5. Diplomacy ------ ????? 

 

Back to Top
sinosword View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302
  Quote sinosword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 23:47

1. movability

move faster than enemy. defeated, can escape from enemy almost without losing. win, can catch up escaping enemy and kill all of them.

their movability also represent in strategic movement. they always can avoid the main force of enemy who can't move fast, and strike the weakest place(storehouse or supply line something) of enemy.

every mongol warrior has 3~5 horses, they can be used by turns. so mongol army always can move fast without the tire of horses.

2. archer

almost without close combat, but shoot enemy in a distance. in this case, mongol force almost won't lose people. the worst situation for them is enemy can defence their arrows by forming lineup. the enemy might be able to defend several times but nothing more. once their lineup break because chase of mongols, they will be killed. 

 

 

Back to Top
sinosword View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302
  Quote sinosword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 23:59

the mongol  troops are only useful in champaign or grassland. their movability advange will disappear once they get into mountanious region or forest such as japan or vietnam.

its easy to defend in mountanious region coz there are only several certain ways to pass those gorges. just need to build stronghold on those ways, the mongols can't use their movability to pass and strike weak places. 

they can't use horses in forests. once mongols get down their horses, they will lose.

Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 817
  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 20:26

Its a combination of factors a main reason however was

1 MILLION HORSES

Back to Top
Decebal View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Digital Prometheus

Joined: 20-May-2005
Location: Canada
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1791
  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2006 at 23:08

People usually tend to forget that until modern times, virtually all armies could either move or shoot. The Mongols were the one army before the tanks appeared on the scene, who could move and shoot at the same time. They took advantage of that split second when the horse's hoofs are all off the ground, to shoot their arrow with an accuracy that would have been otherwise impossible whiel moving. They achieved this feat by life-long training, spending so much time on horseback.

That is the Mongols great secret weapon. It was a tactical advantage which no other army could duplicate, and it always gave them an edge.

To be fair, the Mongols were not the only ones with this advantage though. Most of the steppe nomads had it, including turkic tribes and scythians.

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

Back to Top
Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 17:02
The Mongol Military was in many ways similar to previous nomads. For example, decimal organization was used as early as the Xiong Nu period. Horse archery had been part of the culture there for thousands of years. Warriorship had been an element of steppe life long before their time. If the Mongols were able to conquer so many parts of both inner and outer Asia, why were other groups like the Xiong Nu or Ruruans, or even the Gokturks not able to do the same? I think that's the main question, and I don't think the key is in the military units.




Edited by Imperator Invictus
Back to Top
sinosword View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302
  Quote sinosword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 17:10
the xiongnu and ruruan were almost destoryed by china before their possible conquest.
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 817
  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 18:19
Since the Khitans they invented new tactics for cavalry and the mongols learnt from them more combined arms of heavy and light cavlaries
Back to Top
Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Retired AE Administrator

Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3151
  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 18:59
...and which type of tactics were those?
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 817
  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 20:03
Horse team tactics the use of light and heavy cavalry we are still discussing these tactics see Mongol heavy cavalry and a similiar discussion on chinese history forum
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 21:12
Originally posted by Falco


5. Diplomacy ------ ?????

Definitely Diplomacy. The Mongols would send an emmisary to a city, to request its surrender, if it refused, the mongols would butcher the city. All the neighbouring cities would hear of it and surrender when a messenger came to them to avoid the same fate.

Terror tactics. Shock and Awe.
Back to Top
BigL View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 817
  Quote BigL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2006 at 23:03

The tao of warfare states no army can take over the world as their strengths will eventually become their weaknesses.

Mongols strenghts started with their warrior like tradition,incessent infighting and fighting others not only made them great warriors but great strategists and tacticians.But this eventually become their weakness as their empire crumbled when they started fought each other.

Another strenght of theirs was their open mindness to othere cultures using troops and technology from other countries,but the mongols eventually became sinizized and (persianized?) losing their mongolian culture.

 

 

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 09:47

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

Originally posted by Falco


5. Diplomacy ------ ?????

Definitely Diplomacy. The Mongols would send an emmisary to a city, to request its surrender, if it refused, the mongols would butcher the city. All the neighbouring cities would hear of it and surrender when a messenger came to them to avoid the same fate.

Terror tactics. Shock and Awe.

Yeah, i agree with you. But Genghis and mongol leaders use diplomacy in many ways, for example:

1. Genghis sent his son Jochi to conquer Oirds (Southern Siberian people) without battles. Genghis worried about his northern front his empire. And Jochi made it.

2. During first battle against Hsi-Hsia Empire, he made peace with Jin Empire and with Koryo.

3. During battle against Jin Empire, one of his general Jebe organized an idea, which was allied with Song Empire against Jin.

4. ...

That's why mongols use diplomat in many ways, word "Ambassador (ambassad+or)" is mongolian word "Ambansaid" meaning Diplomat.

 

Back to Top
Yiannis View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2329
  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 10:44

Originally posted by Falco

 word "Ambassador (ambassad+or)" is mongolian word "Ambansaid" meaning Diplomat.

Middle English ambassadour, from Old French ambassadeur, from Medieval Latin ambactia, mission, from Latin ambactus, servant, ultimately of Celtic origin. See ag- in Appendix I.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Back to Top
Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2006 at 19:54
Originally posted by Falco

word "Ambassador (ambassad+or)" is mongolian word "Ambansaid" meaning Diplomat.


Originally posted by Yiannis

Middle English ambassadour, from Old French ambassadeur, from Medieval Latin ambactia, mission, from Latin ambactus, servant, ultimately of Celtic origin. See ag- in Appendix I.


Well I'm sure the Mongols didn't get it from Latin. Is the mongol language(s) Indo-European?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2006 at 17:57

Originally posted by Falco

That's why mongols use diplomat in many ways, word "Ambassador (ambassad+or)" is mongolian word "Ambansaid" meaning Diplomat.

I don't agree with your play of word.

AMBAN is Manchu word

------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------

"DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY" is something Mongols really created and reinforced. 

"DO NOT KILL MESSNGER"

Violation of Messenger right is reason for many wars by Mongols, so they  really took it seriously. 

Back to Top
xi_tujue View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Atabeg

Joined: 19-May-2006
Location: Belgium
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1919
  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-May-2006 at 10:04
don't forget pride and fear of dicrease. the ego of a man plays a huge role. The light cavalary archer was important of course.
 
Try to imagin a horseman who has almost no armor riding not a horse but a pony with little bows who look like toys. the archer could't eaven fire a arrow when retreading. you know you can handle him if you can get to him but you can't how fast you ride your horse it dusn't matter you never can catch him.
 
They don't fight the way you want to they attack & retrea constanly. No opertunety for you to attack
 
It spooks you out
 
so i think the mongols had an psycologic advantige
 
(sorry for the grammar and vocab)
 
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.