Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Disputed Persian/Iranian People and Discoveris (inven. , rel.)
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Miller View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Disputed Persian/Iranian People and Discoveris (inven. , rel.)
    Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 16:44
Originally posted by malizai_

 YOU follow an Arab prophet! wake up and come to terms with it.

Chinese follow an Indian prophet. Come to think of it I always thought those Chinese were actually Indian. Thanks for the enlightenment

 
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 17:24

Originally posted by malizai_

What is it in the Iranian psyche that they always see themselves as victims, they seem to be stuck in an eternal kerbala. They are forever cautious and suspecting.

Before Islam, Iran was greater, after, it wasn't - how do we see ourselves as victims? It was like going down a notch. Would you be happy?

My maternal and paternal grandfathers spoke Persian along with three other languages, Persian was especially used for composing poetry.  But that does not make them Persians. Why all this hatred for the turks, for many turks patronized the Persian language. They helped preserve skills of Persian artisans by keeping them in employment and appreciating their contribution. 

What hatred for Turks?  Why do you hate Persians?  Many Pakistanis seem to claim that they are descended from Persians or Arabs.

At the same time to incorporate anyone who speaks Persian as an ethnic Persian is incorrect. A geographical use of the term Iranian on incorporate non-Persian groups would be acceptable.

I think miller covered this one pretty much.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Isfahan has never attained the same grandeur as Baghdad, Damascus, Samarkand, Cordoba and Grenada.

Yes it had, before Teimur destroyed it, even the walls of the city, they were so wide that two horse drawn carriages could pass one another side by side (from Teimur's own memoirs).  Baghdad was a city founded by Persians, the name means god-given in Middle Persian, and if it wasn't for Abu Muslim's (Persian from Khorasan) army the Abassids would never have come to power he also selected Baghdad to be their capital.  They repayed him well, tricked him into entering their courts once all of their dirty work was done, then murdered him, in a typical betrayal. 

Arabs gave YOU the Islamic culture YOU now practice!

Arabs gave us nothing but Islam.

Who practises?  There is no such thing as an Islamic culture... tell me how Iranian culture is an Islamic culture? Iranian culture is Iranian and most of its citizens are muslims, big deal, there is no other culture like Iran's, therefore it is unique and Iranian.

YOU write in the Arabic script!

Actually no...  the script is Phoenecian in base origin and more closely resembles Sassanid script than anything else, Arabic script was actually runic...

YOU follow an Arab prophet! wake up and come to terms with it.

Has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, only people who practise islam follow an Arab prophet, and let me get u in on how ignorant some of them can be...  My grandmother's friend, had been to haj and everything - she was surprised i told her Mohamad and Ali and Hossein were Arabs and not Iranian.  So maybe waking up will be that realisation and coming to terms with it will be sidelining it.
Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832 		  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 19:34
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi

Isfahan was a cultural centre of course. But Damascus, Bagdad, Alexandria, Kurtuba, Samarkand, and later Istanbul were all at least as significant at various points in time.

 

i believe baghdad was under the control of Persians   so that makes isfahan and baghdad, and egyptians werent arabs till arabised so that takes alexandria out, and turks were also not arab so that takes the turks out and neither was damascas till arabised.

 

so basically, what did arabs do? dont get me wrong, there were some arabs who did stuff but its a fact that turks and persians built islam.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832 		  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 19:38

i myself am not muslims, nor am i any other religion (i believe religion is man made, and has nothing to do with God), but i can look at the facts and see that all arab muslims brought was death and suffering.

they were no better than the mongols, they came, they killed, they destroyed, then they were out of history.

after the brief arabic entry into history (which was 700 years in spain but only a few hundred in the middle east) they were again conquered by turks and persians.

so what did arabs do? nothing. it was turks and persians who made islam, and the islamic empires so great.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832 		  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 19:44
Originally posted by Maziar

. Arabs gave YOU the Islamic culture YOU now practice!,

please define the so called "islamic" culture. The term islamic is false. What makes a mix of Roman, Persian, greec and even Indian architecture to "islamic" architecture? why schould Turks and Iranian scientists be "islamic"? Why should be Iranian poets like Ferdowsi and Omar Khayam be "islamic"? from them we know they were not religiuose at all. So what is Islamic culture? nothing but a big lie.

YOU write in the Arabic script! YOU follow an Arab prophet! wake up and come to terms with it.

So what? When the arabs came and laid their swords on our throat and said "convert to islam, or die", so there is a font change not far away. Be proud at it! And the arabic font isn't arabic at all, arabs adopted it from Phonicier

 

Now here is a smart person, everything you say is true!

 

there is no ummah, i hate muslims who say "islamic" scientist bla bla bla

islamic isnt an ethnicity! we are Persian, not islamic, Turks are Turks, not islamic...

 

the only one who say "lets share everything since we are all muslims" are the ones who have no accomplishments of themselves, like arabs for instance, they have made no contribution to human society.  no offense to arabs, but its the truth.  and for those who think im picking on arabs, i'll say the same about native americans, they did not affect human society much...

 

so im not being one sided, i'm just speaking my mind.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832 		  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Feb-2006 at 19:48

Originally posted by malizai_

My maternal and paternal grandfathers spoke Persian along with three other languages, Persian was especially used for composing poetry.  But that does not make them Persians. Why all this hatred for the turks, for many turks patronized the Persian language. They helped preserve skills of Persian artisans by keeping them in employment and appreciating their contribution. 

 

you mean like how turks claim they won WWI, how turks claim their superiority over kurds and armenians, how turks attack Iranian history for their own nationalist puposes....

like i said before, you guys cannot put modern borders on countries that existed hundreds of years before, Rumi lived and died in Iranian terroritory at the time, and spoke and wrote Persian for his whole life, and learned a lot of his skill from other Persians.
"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
Behi View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 27-Apr-2005
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2268 		  Quote Behi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 05:06
Originally posted by Cyrus


Ze shireh shotor khordano susmar
Arab ra be jaii resideh ast kar
Ke tajeh kiani konad arezu
Tofu bar to ey charkheh gardun tofu 

From drinking camel milk & eating lizards of the desert
Arab got so bold, that now,
Dreams of capturing the Persian Crown
Damn on this Time, Damn on Fate

Back to Top
Fizzil View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 03-Nov-2004
Location: United Arab Emirates
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 197 		  Quote Fizzil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 06:05

The generalisations is appalling, i know you guys get in a tizzy when arabs or turks are mentioned, but wow.

Also Zagros, do tell how the Arabic Script was based from Phoenician?

Southern Arabian != Arabic, Southern Arabian could be runic, but the arabic script was derived from Nabatean Arabic which is derived from Aramaic.

Also guys saying the arabs did nothing, grow up.
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 06:51

oh what with the paranoia !! 

anyway about the scripts arab used , there are many and the latest one was developed in the 4th centruey AD, and it came from Aramatic script which came from the Phoenician one .

also the Greek scripts came from the Phonenician scripts.

the Phonenician were Semitic too, so they were  family



Edited by azimuth
Back to Top
Maziar View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Arteshbod

Joined: 06-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1155 		  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 07:34
Originally posted by Fizzil

The generalisations is appalling, i know you guys get in a tizzy when arabs or turks are mentioned, but wow.

Also Zagros, do tell how the Arabic Script was based from Phoenician?

Southern Arabian != Arabic, Southern Arabian could be runic, but the arabic script was derived from Nabatean Arabic which is derived from Aramaic.

Also guys saying the arabs did nothing, grow up.

No one said here Arabs did nothing, Arabs did many things in fact. But i find it is offensive, if someone claims Iranians has nothing by their owns and they are due to Arabs their culture and civilization.
Back to Top
Fizzil View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 03-Nov-2004
Location: United Arab Emirates
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 197 		  Quote Fizzil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 10:15

Man maziar, with all due respect, read the posts above mine.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 10:56
One thing:  No more trolling by any members, no ad hominem arguments - keep to the facts, write in third person.
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 11:08
Originally posted by Fizzil

The generalisations is appalling, i know you guys get in a tizzy when arabs or turks are mentioned, but wow.

Also Zagros, do tell how the Arabic Script was based from Phoenician?

Southern Arabian != Arabic, Southern Arabian could be runic, but the arabic script was derived from Nabatean Arabic which is derived from Aramaic.

Also guys saying the arabs did nothing, grow up.

The guy's point is still null, our Pahlavi script had the same origin, as did the Parthian and Cunieform before it...  Before Iranians became sedentary they had no writing system, history and religion was recorded mentally by the magi and passed down orally.
Back to Top
Iranian41ife View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 24-Dec-2005
Location: Tajikista
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1832 		  Quote Iranian41ife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 13:49
Originally posted by Fizzil

The generalisations is appalling, i know you guys get in a tizzy when arabs or turks are mentioned, but wow.

Also Zagros, do tell how the Arabic Script was based from Phoenician?

Southern Arabian != Arabic, Southern Arabian could be runic, but the arabic script was derived from Nabatean Arabic which is derived from Aramaic.

Also guys saying the arabs did nothing, grow up.

 

no one is saying that arabs did nothing, we are just saying they didnt do much.

and isnt it funny how all the so called "arab cities" were founded and prospering before the arab invasions, like alexandria, damascus, baghdad, etc... 

and one more piece of evidence that the arabs never did much of their own is the fact that none of the major cities were on the arabian peninsula.

"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
Back to Top
malizai_ View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan

Alcinous

Joined: 05-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Feb-2006 at 23:13
Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by malizai_

What is it in the Iranian psyche that they always see themselves as victims, they seem to be stuck in an eternal kerbala. They are forever cautious and suspecting.

Before Islam, Iran was greater, after, it wasn't - how do we see ourselves as victims? It was like going down a notch. Would you be happy?

My maternal and paternal grandfathers spoke Persian along with three other languages, Persian was especially used for composing poetry.  But that does not make them Persians. Why all this hatred for the turks, for many turks patronized the Persian language. They helped preserve skills of Persian artisans by keeping them in employment and appreciating their contribution. 

What hatred for Turks?  Why do you hate Persians?  Many Pakistanis seem to claim that they are descended from Persians or Arabs.

At the same time to incorporate anyone who speaks Persian as an ethnic Persian is incorrect. A geographical use of the term Iranian on incorporate non-Persian groups would be acceptable.

I think miller covered this one pretty much.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Isfahan has never attained the same grandeur as Baghdad, Damascus, Samarkand, Cordoba and Grenada.

Yes it had, before Teimur destroyed it, even the walls of the city, they were so wide that two horse drawn carriages could pass one another side by side (from Teimur's own memoirs).  Baghdad was a city founded by Persians, the name means god-given in Middle Persian, and if it wasn't for Abu Muslim's (Persian from Khorasan) army the Abassids would never have come to power he also selected Baghdad to be their capital.  They repayed him well, tricked him into entering their courts once all of their dirty work was done, then murdered him, in a typical betrayal. 

Arabs gave YOU the Islamic culture YOU now practice!

Arabs gave us nothing but Islam.

Who practises?  There is no such thing as an Islamic culture... tell me how Iranian culture is an Islamic culture? Iranian culture is Iranian and most of its citizens are muslims, big deal, there is no other culture like Iran's, therefore it is unique and Iranian.

YOU write in the Arabic script!

YOU follow an Arab prophet! wake up and come to terms with it.

Has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, only people who practise islam follow an Arab prophet, and let me get u in on how ignorant some of them can be...  My grandmother's friend, had been to haj and everything - she was surprised i told her Mohamad and Ali and Hossein were Arabs and not Iranian.  So maybe waking up will be that realisation and coming to terms with it will be sidelining it.

If u went down a notch because of islam, how do u imagine u will go up a notch?

I am sorry if i came across as hating persians for i certainly dont. Let me make it clear<< I LOVE PERSIANS, with minor exceptions.I just got a bit sick of some of the winging and blame game.  Look on the positive side, it gave u a chance to get it all of ur chest.

A lot of non-muslim persians are in complete denial over the cultural impact of islam on persian life. I mean what r the ayatullahs about, if not religion. U can not deny that the clergy didnt shape society. Islam plays the dominant role in most moslem countries. For islam is not reduced to a theology, but is a way of life.

As for following the arab prophet( which most iranians have been doing for 1400 yrs) commands his followers: "If u love God and his prophet, then do as god and his prophet command u to". It is even called  Islamic Republic of Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

 
Back to Top
Miller View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 25-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 487 		  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 01:58

Originally posted by malizai_

It is even called  Islamic Republic of Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

 

 

Most unpopular and rouge governments pick names that has nothing to do with Reality. How about North Korea. It is called The Democratic Republic of Korea. With your reasoning that means North Korea is actually immersed in Democracy and the rule of people

 
Back to Top
ramin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 03:31
Originally posted by Miller

Chinese follow an Indian prophet. Come to think of it I always thought those Chinese were actually Indian. Thanks for the enlightenment
Most unpopular and rouge governments pick names that has nothing to do with Reality. How about North Korea. It is called The Democratic Republic of Korea. With your reasoning that means North Korea is actually immersed in Democracy and the rule of people
good going both times!

edit: but he's got a point I think. the Iranian guy said that Arabs didn't contributed much, while Iranians still believe in a prophet who WAS Arab.


Edited by ramin
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
Back to Top
ramin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 03:37
Originally posted by prsn41ife

and one more piece of evidence that the arabs never did much of their own is the fact that none of the major cities were on the arabian peninsula.
well... Mecca is.
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
Back to Top
ramin View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 921 		  Quote ramin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 04:20
Paranoia indeed. (btw, I'm still waiting for your respond here )

Originally posted by azimuth

also the Greek scripts came from the Phonenician scripts.

    is this sentense one of those that we put occasionally just to give people the impression that we know something?

oh what with the paranoia !! 

anyway about the scripts arab used , there are many and the latest one was developed in the 4th centruey AD, and it came from Aramatic script which came from the Phoenician one .

    Please. Please tell us when was it that our lovely linguists found that Aramaic script came from Phoenician? just an approximately date is fine (if exists!) or you could just give us a link (u'll probably find one here)

    or maybe you could even tell us when Arabic (as a language) was found.

the Phonenician were Semitic too, so they were  family

    do you even know what Semetic means? please don't look it up in google now! (btw, google is here. Ah... what am i thinking? u're using it everytime )

    do you know what is the difference between 'language' and 'script' ? You know, I reallly hope you know this one, otherwise...... sorry but then you're in the wrong place!
"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
Back to Top
Zagros View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor

Suspended

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Feb-2006 at 04:56
Originally posted by malizai_

Originally posted by Zagros

Originally posted by malizai_

What is it in the Iranian psyche that they always see themselves as victims, they seem to be stuck in an eternal kerbala. They are forever cautious and suspecting.

Before Islam, Iran was greater, after, it wasn't - how do we see ourselves as victims? It was like going down a notch. Would you be happy?

My maternal and paternal grandfathers spoke Persian along with three other languages, Persian was especially used for composing poetry.  But that does not make them Persians. Why all this hatred for the turks, for many turks patronized the Persian language. They helped preserve skills of Persian artisans by keeping them in employment and appreciating their contribution. 

What hatred for Turks?  Why do you hate Persians?  Many Pakistanis seem to claim that they are descended from Persians or Arabs.

At the same time to incorporate anyone who speaks Persian as an ethnic Persian is incorrect. A geographical use of the term Iranian on incorporate non-Persian groups would be acceptable.

I think miller covered this one pretty much.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Isfahan has never attained the same grandeur as Baghdad, Damascus, Samarkand, Cordoba and Grenada.

Yes it had, before Teimur destroyed it, even the walls of the city, they were so wide that two horse drawn carriages could pass one another side by side (from Teimur's own memoirs).  Baghdad was a city founded by Persians, the name means god-given in Middle Persian, and if it wasn't for Abu Muslim's (Persian from Khorasan) army the Abassids would never have come to power he also selected Baghdad to be their capital.  They repayed him well, tricked him into entering their courts once all of their dirty work was done, then murdered him, in a typical betrayal. 

Arabs gave YOU the Islamic culture YOU now practice!

Arabs gave us nothing but Islam.

Who practises?  There is no such thing as an Islamic culture... tell me how Iranian culture is an Islamic culture? Iranian culture is Iranian and most of its citizens are muslims, big deal, there is no other culture like Iran's, therefore it is unique and Iranian.

YOU write in the Arabic script!

YOU follow an Arab prophet! wake up and come to terms with it.

Has to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard, only people who practise islam follow an Arab prophet, and let me get u in on how ignorant some of them can be...  My grandmother's friend, had been to haj and everything - she was surprised i told her Mohamad and Ali and Hossein were Arabs and not Iranian.  So maybe waking up will be that realisation and coming to terms with it will be sidelining it.

If u went down a notch because of islam, how do u imagine u will go up a notch?

I am sorry if i came across as hating persians for i certainly dont. Let me make it clear<< I LOVE PERSIANS, with minor exceptions.I just got a bit sick of some of the winging and blame game.  Look on the positive side, it gave u a chance to get it all of ur chest.

A lot of non-muslim persians are in complete denial over the cultural impact of islam on persian life. I mean what r the ayatullahs about, if not religion. U can not deny that the clergy didnt shape society. Islam plays the dominant role in most moslem countries. For islam is not reduced to a theology, but is a way of life.

As for following the arab prophet( which most iranians have been doing for 1400 yrs) commands his followers: "If u love God and his prophet, then do as god and his prophet command u to". It is even called  Islamic Republic of Iran

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_republic

Your information is based on ignorance, the Ayatollahs were not a creation of the Iranian people, at first they were Safavid tools, then they pretty much disappeared from political life until the 19/20th century when the Brits started rousing them - they were even funded by the Brits from the 40s through to the 70s. 

And their path to power in Iran was full of deceit, treachery and betrayal.  I encourage you to read:

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/islamic_revolution/revolu tion_and_iran_after1979_1.php
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 6>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.