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Should Europe sell nukes to Iran?
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Should Europe sell nukes to Iran?
    Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:12
Originally posted by Maju

After all, Europe should be objectively interested in balance of power.

Yeah, a good Balance of power worked so well in the early 1900s.


I can't believe someone seriously think Europe ought to sell nuclear power to a government consisting of religious nutjobs.

Edited by Styrbiorn
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Maju View Drop Down
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:26
Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by Maju

After all, Europe should be objectively interested in balance of power.

Yeah, a good Balance of power worked so well in the early 1900s.


I can't believe someone seriously think Europe ought to sell nuclear power to a government consisting of religious nutjobs.


Didn't I say first that a neo-Leninist government was a pre-condition.

Anyhow, I do think that someone must balance Israel and the USA in the region. Iran obviously doesn't meet the standards, Baathist Iraq has been destroyed and sold to Iranians, so why not support Syria? They are anti-Israelis, they are an educated and sensible people and they are not fundamentalist at all.

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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:31
Originally posted by Thegeneral

Originally posted by Stormblade

There is no balance of power, there hasn't been a balance of power since the breakdown of SSSR, and it should be restored at the cost of the USA because they have been doing pretty much what they wanted for the last 2 decades or so. Besides who belives in that Nostradamus stuff anyway. 

Actually, because America is the superpower of the time, we are free of countries like the USSR of being the superpower.  If you seriously thought about it, Bush is a saint compared to Stalin!



Not sure about Bush, but did Stalin ever killed so many people in a single week as Truman did in August 1945?

Said that, Stalin, as you know is not my favorite character, though I'm thinking of a couple of nations that maybe would be better, if they were ruled by him.

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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:44

Originally posted by Maju


The only reasonable payement is to make of Iran a true democracy or better a neo-Leninist state: while the mullahs are in power shielding Iran may not be so good idea. Yet once the political situation has changed and instead of "God" they promote "Atheism", then we can negotiate. After all, Europe should be objectively interested in balance of power.

Well I've long thought the worst thing ever done to the muslim world by the west was the shameful Russian retreat from Afghanistan...... If Brezhnev had taken the whole middle-east it would be a mini utopia today....
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 13:47

Originally posted by Thegeneral

If you seriously thought about it, Bush is a saint compared to Stalin!

No, Bush is constrained by a system designed to prevent dictatorship, Stalin had unrestrained power. Put Stalin in the white and Bush in the Kremlin, you get pretty much the same results.
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 23:56
Originally posted by Paul


Bush is constrained by a system designed to prevent dictatorship, Stalin had unrestrained power. Put Stalin in the white and Bush in the Kremlin, you get pretty much the same results.

Well said.
I think selling nukes to Iran is a good idea. Even if they just sold two. One to test, this should suffiencetly scare anyone who is thinking of attacking Iran out of doing it. And then one just in case they didn't get the message.

I'm of the All have nukes or none have nukes opinion as well.
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Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 01:50

 Theres no guarantee Iran wouldnt nuke Israel the first opportunity it got, admittedly I doubt Iran is stupid enough to start a nuclear holocaust just like that, but I don't trust Ahmadinejad enough to give the guy the ability to wipe another country out nonetheless. Infact I don't trust anybody with nukes but I cant very well do much about the countries that already have them.

 If we gave Iran nukes assuming relations between our countries got on good terms, theres still no telling what would happen in the future, if relations were soured again and Iran was then a nuclear power, Iran would be in a very powerful position to resist opposition even from America. You can't very well threaten a country that has nuclear weapons, it instantly levels the playing field.

 Perhaps though theyd just cancel each other out with the realization blowing each up would achieve nothing, hmmm.

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Posts: 75 		  Quote Fort Brooklyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 02:03
Originally posted by Heraclius

 Theres no guarantee Iran wouldnt nuke Israel the first opportunity it got, admittedly I doubt Iran is stupid enough to start a nuclear holocaust just like that, but I don't trust Ahmadinejad enough to give the guy the ability to wipe another country out nonetheless. Infact I don't trust anybody with nukes but I cant very well do much about the countries that already have them.

 If we gave Iran nukes assuming relations between our countries got on good terms, theres still no telling what would happen in the future, if relations were soured again and Iran was then a nuclear power, Iran would be in a very powerful position to resist opposition even from America. You can't very well threaten a country that has nuclear weapons, it instantly levels the playing field.

 Perhaps though theyd just cancel each other out with the realization blowing each up would achieve nothing, hmmm.

In the event that Iran WAS armed with nukes and a state sponsored nuclear strike wasn't on the board, the possibility of the weapons getting into the hands of some terror organization would be another risk.



Edited by Fort Brooklyn
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Omar al Hashim View Drop Down
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 04:07
Originally posted by Heraclius

Iran would be in a very powerful position to resist opposition even from America. You can't very well threaten a country that has nuclear weapons, it instantly levels the playing field.


Exactly, a country being able to defend itself from foriegn interferance is a good thing in my mind.

Originally posted by Fort Brooklyn


In the event that Iran WAS armed with nukes and a state sponsored nuclear strike wasn't on the board, the possibility of the weapons getting into the hands of some terror organization would be another risk.


I think you underestimate Iran. If the russians can prevent its nuclear arsenal from falling into terrorists hands, so can Iran. It also wouldn't be in Irans interests to give nukes away to a potentially unstable group that could use them to attack anyone.


Edited by Omar al Hashim
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Posts: 1211 		  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 08:42

No, let Russia sell them nukes along with some 20-30 Topol M ICBM upgraded to MIRV capabilities.

That done, let's see what will happen. I think nothing. Remember, even Hitler didn't use chemical weapons though he had them. Anybody thinks that Iran's leaders are more insane than Adolf?
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Posts: 651 		  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by Cezar

No, let Russia sell them nukes along with some 20-30 Topol M ICBM upgraded to MIRV capabilities.

That done, let's see what will happen. I think nothing. Remember, even Hitler didn't use chemical weapons though he had them. Anybody thinks that Iran's leaders are more insane than Adolf?



But some Osama's friends are, mullah fore example, Hitler doesn't use kamikaze, there are a lot of suicidal bombers, 15000 in Iran.
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 09:21

Originally posted by Richard XIII

  there are a lot of suicidal bombers, 15000 in Iran.

I simply wonder, where on earth you got that info from...

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Richard XIII View Drop Down
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Posts: 651 		  Quote Richard XIII Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 10:06
From iranians. I'm sorry but is true

copy the address

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=29 44
http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=36 02
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3118456,00.html
http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200597231227.asp

Cartoon Promotes Suicide Bombers
A new animated film for children, which aired on IRIB 9 TV in Iran, promotes suicide attacks against Israelis. Here are some excerpts: Abd Al-Rahman: O Allah, I must take revenge upon these bloodthirsty [Israeli] aggressors, who murdered my father, mother, and brotherI will avenge the blood of my family, even if I am killed doing so.

Karim: This is not only revenge for your father, mother, and brother. We must not allow these bloodthirsty Zionists to take even one inch of our holy land. If necessary, we will die this way.

Jassem: We are near the border, where the Zionists are going to pass. We will attack them according to our plan. May Allah be with you, brothers. I know our mission is a hard one, but with Allahs help we must stop this bloodthirsty enemyHere, these are for you (handing them kaffiyehs and explosives belts). Brothers, get ready. They are coming.

Abd Al-Rahman: I place my trust in Allah.

Al-Rahman leaps onto one of the trucks, screaming. There is gunfire and explosions; the scene is obscured by black smoke. When the smoke clears, there is devastationthe Israeli soldiers and Palestinian attackers are dead. A young Palestinian boy approaches Al-Rahmans body, takes his bloody kaffiyeh, places it on his own shoulders and walks off into the sunset.

This movie clip can also be viewed at http://memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1= 906

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=54 13
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=HOTZONE-01-19-06 &cat=II

They are 50000 not 15000 my mistake





Edited by Richard XIII
"I want to know God's thoughts...
...the rest are details."

Albert Einstein
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Fort Brooklyn View Drop Down
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Posts: 75 		  Quote Fort Brooklyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 12:11

Originally posted by Omar al Hashim


I think you underestimate Iran. If the russians can prevent its nuclear arsenal from falling into terrorists hands, so can Iran. It also wouldn't be in Irans interests to give nukes away to a potentially unstable group that could use them to attack anyone.

True but that would be an excuse used by some governments.

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