What Is Jihad----According to Quran

No. I never read it. But guess "it was" is not "it is". Please understand that my viewpoint, though Western is not the typical among most westerners, much less those of the "Dark Ages" (sarcasm implicit in the term, I'm not talking about the Middle Ages but about the Modern Age ). 

Jihad  means struggle,  a struggle with everyday life.However some used it against their brother.

However when one  brother feels not to give in and take the whole world with him is another story.

Originally posted by eaglecap I was going to post a rebuttal Maju but I support Israel and their right to exist peacefully but that is for another thread. I will stick to topic. Jihad- From what I have read there is the greater Jihad and lesser Jihad. The greater being that inner struggle that most humans deal with spiritually. The lesser being conflict with the infidel whether it is defensive or offensive. There have been examples of both in current events and history. Those who take the faith to its core ideology would go on the offensive by virtue of the fact that the Infidel has rejected Mohammad as Allah's only Prophet and the true religion. Damascus is an example in history; it was once a Christian city under the rule of the Byzantine Empire. It was attacked as part of a design to expand the rule of Islam and either convert the Greek speaking inhabitants or force them into dhimmitude, or second class citizenship and slavery. Modern examples are Sudan, Nigeria and the Philippines. Osama on several occasions has given the invitation for Americans to embrace Allah prior to 9/11. I would agree that the majority of Muslims in the world do not take it to that extreme otherwise things would be much worse. I have been called anti Muslim but I just cannot understand why Muslims are hurting Muslims. I have read some theories but it still hurts to see innocent children die and there is nothing I can do about it. It does not matter to me if they are Muslims or whatever, they are still innocent of the conflict. I better get to my studies- test this week

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Well, i think that Jihad is one of the worst things ever made by a human against another human.The eastern roman empire is a good example and i agree with eaglecap.The Byzantines did not attack the Muslims first,yet after the battle of Yarmuk(20 August 636A.D) the whole Middle east was under the control of the Muslims.Not to mention what happened in Egypt where the city of Alexandria was almost burnt to the ground.The Muslims didn't stop there.They even started raiding greek-speaking and christian Asia Minor and they besieged Constantinople in 673.They attempted that again and again but they failed all the times.However the Ottomans who also declared Jihad against the Byzantines finally managed to capture the city of Constantine.What happened during these times in Asia minor is beyond imagination,  slaughter of those who kept their christian faith(whole cities disappeared from the face of earth),mass conversions to Islam for those who were not brave enough not to give up their faith and the culture of their ancestors,and they left some people with their former religion so as to pay the taxes(dhimmi) and being in fact the slaves of the Muslims. The same things happened also in the Balkans during the Ottoman era. According to Quran it is an obligation for a Muslim to attack neighbouring countries if they are not Muslims too.From what i have read the Muslims raiders did the jihad mostly for the looting since this occupation was the only thing the desert nomads knew how to do well.... What they managed to do was to destroy the cradle of Greco-Roman civilisation in the east.(Asia Minor,Egypt,Syria,and finally Greece)

Guys that is abosolute rubbish.
You cannot have an offensive Jihad. The only permittable war in Islam is if you are being Persecuted. No other time regardless of what anyone else has done.

You cannot force anyone to be a muslim and this was not done in Damascus. "There is no compulsion in religion". You cannot force anyone to convert and you cannot force the Greek population into slavery. Anyway how do a handful Arabs force millions of Romans to do anything? Remember that the Christian Church excommunicated all middle-eastern christians when the arabs took the land off the Romans because they argued about whether Jesus was one sprit with divine and human parts or two one divine and one human.

To dismiss the conflicts in Nigeria and Sudan as the expansion of Islam shows that you know nothing of these conflicts. Nigeria's conflicts are largely over control of the oil wealth as well as tribal and other reasons. The Phillipines is over the northern christian islands trying to control the southern muslim islands such as mindinow. The muslims are the defenders  against forced christian expansion.

Osama is a bastard. Muslims don't take it to "that" extreme becuase most muslims know something about Islam, like whats forbiddan and whats not.

Jihad is only different to any other war by the fact that you have strict conditions imposed on how and when you fight. Conditions such as, not harming civilians, women, children, destroying fields and similar. If Jihad is the worst thing devised, I'm assuming that you consider the killing of innocents a good thing?

Christians were not massacared when muslims conqured Byzantine lands. When mehmed took Byzantium, the Patriarch and all christian clergy except the emperor remained. You should note that Alexandria, Damascus, Istanbul, all still have a patriarch, after between 1500 & 500 years.

"According to Quran it is an obligation for a Muslim to attack neighbouring countries if they are not Muslims too."
That is an abosolute lie. Why don't you actually read the Qu'ran to find out what muslims actually believe.

Originally posted by Mira Originally posted by eaglecap Damascus is an example in history; it was once a Christian city under the rule of the Byzantine Empire. It was attacked as part of a design to expand the rule of Islam and either convert the Greek speaking inhabitants or force them into dhimmitude, or second class citizenship and slavery. It was not really under direct Byzantine rule. It may have been a protectorate of the Byzantine empire, because it served as a gate to the other world. It was, however, ruled by the Ghassasins, strong Arab allies of Rome. The reason the Muslim army fought against them, under the leadership of Khalid ibn al-Walid, is because a Ghassasin Prince killed the Prophet's messenger. In those days, killing the messenger was a sign of initiating a war. If you refuse the message, you send back the messenger safely. If you kill him, you are asking for war. That's the rule.

Byzantine rule- I will have to confirm this but the important thing was it was under Byzantine control. I will also have to see a source, other than the Koran or Hadith, that supports the fact that the messenger was indeed killed but I have read other sources that state that by just refusing the message it is enough to have Jihad declared upon a city or nation. I suppose it depends upons one's interpretation of the Koran and Haddith but there are many other examples of unwarranted attacks upon non-Muslim cities in history such as Constantinople in the 7th c AD.

Originally posted by RomiosArktos In Christian religion even if you kill another human when defending your country,you cannot participate in the mysteries of the church for 1 year.

Well, that simply isn't true. Christian services have been held on the battlefield during many wars, including both world wars.  No priest ever refused to give last rites to someone dying after a battle, no matter whether he had killed anyone during it.

In fact, even murderers may participate in the 'mysteries of the church', though of course it takes repentance.

However in your religion,they speak of a Holy war and thngs like that.

Again that has also been true of Christianity, notably during the crusades, including episodes like the persecution of the Cathars and the Teutonic conquest of Prussia.

Not that one person doing something excuses someone else doing it.

 

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by gcle2003 Well, that simply isn't true. This is true in the orthodox Greek church,although i don't know if it  was  always  kept.It was  said by St.Basilios who is after Apostle Paulus the greatest saint in eastern christianity.If you are interested i can quote what St.Basilios said about this.

I believe you. But you should then have said 'Orthodox Greek Church', not 'Christianity.

Incidentally, the Russian Orthodox Church and Soviet Muslim leaders both declared the resistance to the German invasion in WWII to be a 'holy war' - a 'jihad' in the case of the Muslims. It led to a temporary reconciliation between them and Stalin.

There was a patriotic hymn referring to it as holy, though I forget the words, and I can't find them on the net. It was written by Vasily Lebedev-Kumach.

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Guys that is abosolute rubbish. Why do you dismiss the opposite opinion like this.I didn't insult you.

Yes you did.

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by Omar al Hashim You cannot force anyone to be a muslim and this was not done in Damascus. "There is no compulsion in religion". You cannot force anyone to convert and you cannot force the Greek population into slavery. Anyway how do a handful Arabs force millions of Romans to do anything? Are you sure about this?All my ancestors lived here in Greece under ottoman rule.They had a very harsh treatment by the Ottomans.They were oppressed.I can assure you about this.

The collapse of the Ottoman Empire wasn't very nice and alot that can't be justified under any religion occured. Note that your not muslim so there can't have been forced conversions can there?

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Jihad is only different to any other war by the fact that you have strict conditions imposed on how and when you fight. Conditions such as, not harming civilians, women, children, destroying fields and similar. If Jihad is the worst thing devised, I think that regardless of whether you defend what is rigtheously yours or attacking other humans, it is still a bloodshed.So how can you involve God in the works of the humans?In Christian religion even if you kill another human when defending your country,you cannot participate in the mysteries of the church for 1 year.However in your religion,they speak of a Holy war and thngs like that.

In Islam you can never take the life of another person, except if that person is preventing you from practicing Islam and persecuting you so much that there is no choice except to murder that person. And you can only murder that person, not his friend not anyone else, only the person or people who a persecuting you.

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by Omar al Hashim I'm assuming that you consider the killing of innocents a good thing? No,i don't consider the killing of any human being on this small planet on which we live a good thing,or even justified.I believe in peace.

Good, said like a muslim.

Originally posted by RomiosArktos Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Christians were not massacared when muslims conqured Byzantine lands. Are you sure???????????????????????

Yes. Certain.
Think about it, the population of Arabia was small, but Egypt and Syria was large. If Arab armies went around massacring Christians, they wouldn't have been able to control the population at all. One of the main reasons why the Copts and Syrian Orthodox people liked Arab rule was because they were allowed to worship freely, unlike under Byzantine rule where they were continually labeled monophysites and heretics.
Also in regards to the other post, the Great Library of Alexandria was burnt in the 3rd centuary CE by Christian Fanatics.

Well, i think that Jihad is one of the worst things ever made by a human against another human.

forget crusaders?

The eastern roman empire is a good example and i agree with eaglecap.The Byzantines did not attack the Muslims first,yet after the battle of Yarmuk(20 August 636A.D) the whole Middle east was under the control of the Muslims.

So what was roma empire doing  at syria? It  look like it attacked others.

 

What happened during these times in Asia minor is beyond imagination,  slaughter of those who kept their christian faith(whole cities disappeared from the face of earth),mass conversions to Islam for those who were not brave enough not to give up their faith and the culture of their ancestors,and they left some people with their former religion so as to pay the taxes(dhimmi) and being in fact the slaves of the Muslims.

you are talking  rubish, even after 1000 year of muslim rule, 30-40% of anatolia is christian.This does not look like what you  said.

you should read  history not tales.

The same things happened also in the Balkans during the Ottoman era.
According to Quran it is an obligation for a Muslim to attack neighbouring countries if they are not Muslims too.

again rubish.Infact agreement between Murat 2  and christian alliance two time broken by christians. Remember main improvement at  balkains happened at Murat 2 time.

From what i have read the Muslims raiders did the jihad mostly for the looting since this occupation was the only thing the desert nomads knew how to do well....

yeah sure, how this nomads took over castle, cities and ruled them  year, reading to much greek history tales.

What they managed to do was to destroy the cradle of Greco-Roman civilisation in the east.(Asia Minor,Egypt,Syria,and finally Greece)

Well Infact this greco roman civilization forcefully built at this place, and they have no right to take over this lands.

For  greece, you have still your greco-roman superior culture.

 

there are more than 30 verses

i chose those as an example.

 

2:218 Those who believed and those who suffered exile and fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah, they have the hope of the Mercy of Allah: and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

3:142 Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast?

4:95 Not equal are those Believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) hath Allah promised good: but those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

8:72 Those who believed, and adopted exile, and fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of Allah, as well as those who gave (them) asylum and aid, these are (all) friends and protectors, one of another. As to those who believed but came not into exile; ye owe no duty of protection to them until they come into exile; but if they seek your aid in religion, it is your duty to help them, except against a people with whom ye have a treaty of mutual alliance. And (remember) Allah Seeth all that ye do.

9:44 Those who believe in Allah and the Last Day ask thee for no exemption from fighting with their goods and persons. And Allah knoweth well those who do their duty.