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DayI
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Topic: Best leader of a Muslim country at present? Posted: 22-Jan-2006 at 18:36 |
damn those people can discuss!
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Afghanan
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Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 22:05 |
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Look, genius. Rather than accuse others of being a chameleon, look at your own writing.
You said :
Originally posted by Afghanan
Even after 9/11, after Musharraf switched sides like Dostum of Northern Alliance, he was still trying to get access to get out his own brigadier generals out of Qondoz, in Northern Afghanistan while letting the Taliban get bombed to smitharines from above.
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I said in reply
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Alright then genius, did you bother ro read your quote again? It says Pakistanis not brigadier generals or any governmental associated persons. Taliban slipping through is hardly surpising. Guess what also Einstein, you have many Pakistani nationals in Afghanistan for various reasons.
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To which you then started twisting your own words to try and squirm out of the mess you created for yourself.
Originally posted by Afghanan
You need glasses. The article CLEARLY states HIGH RANKED MILITARY OFFICERS.
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So, first the brigadier generals were in Kunduz. Then you say because your article says "high ranking military officers" it must mean they were in Kunduz, when it quite clearly says
"From the New Yorker: In interviews, however, American intelligence officials and high-ranking military officers said that Pakistanis were indeed flown to safety, in a series of nighttime airlifts that were approved by the Bush Administration."
There's simply no point going on with this since you dont seem to have basic reading comprehension.
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Seems you have run out of excuses except to get into sheer technicalities of GENERAL VS "BRIGADIER" General instead of the FACT that Pakistani generals and goons were being transported out of the frontlines back to Pakistan.
Thats fine if you want to go the cowardly way and just give up thats up to you, but you're not fooling anybody with your "Pakistan is 'brotherly' nation" that 'never interfered in Afghan affairs' nonsense.
Edited by Afghanan
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Afghanan
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Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 22:26 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Yes. You misunderstood, I meant pakistan didn't provide america any support other than allowing use of airspace. Of course we helped fight the Russians, their Afghans, their us. |
Hamid Gul the ISI agent said that Pakistan is helpless even if America not only uses their airspace, but even if they cross the border and enter Pakistan to chase insurgents.
Yeah, but he is better than any other bastard around. |
He is no better, no worse in my opinion.I admit that the "terrorists" that have been arrested are probably just guys with a grude against the local authorities. Corruption is still rampart, but less than it was under democracy. |
Corruption has always been rampant no matter who took over. To get rid of corruption you have to take away the leaders that are corrupt, (ie. Musharraf, Military Generals, Government officials, etc.) This type of problem is also prevalent in Afghanistan.
Who? Oh, there probably just made up anyway so we can get american funding. . |
Who is made up? Nek Muhammad and Abdullah Mehsud?
Hey if the Afghans get organised we'll join 'em anyway, not just Baluchistan all of pakistan. Point is were the same. The only difference is which dictator rules us. |
Enough of dictators and extremist Mullahs, we need Truthful people who fight for common people not for Generals and Warlords.
The transliteration of Qaf is not important. |
If Urdu was a real Persian-Arabic mix language it would be very important. But Urdu is very similary to Hindi and therefore Qaaf and Kaaf dont mean anything.
You don't speak Urdu do you? Urdu IS a derivitive of Persian, also Arabic, Sandskrit and half a dozen other langugages. |
Its not a derivative of Persian, its a derivative of Sanskrit and modified by Perso-Arabic.
No, thats a pretty good reason. |
It was an excuse not a reason.
Ever heard of Mahmood of Ghazni? Great fella 12th centuary, paki, I mean Afghan, I mean Turk, hell whats the difference anyway? I suspect he would've got along with the Taliban. |
Well for one he is DEFINITELY not a Paki because Pakistan is only 50 year old country. He's not Afghan because he was the one who helped convert Afghans to Islam and one of their first leaders to help them rise as a power in the region. He enlisted thousands of Afghans in his armies to take over India, he also brought lots of soldiers from other regions in the Middle East into Afghanistan and many of them were absorbed into the Afghan tribal federation (ie. the Ormuris/Barakis, Khalaj/Khilji, etc). He definitely wasnt a Talib because he spoke Persian, was a decadent king who built lofty palaces and had many wives and concubines.
Passport? To go to Afghanistan? Which border are you crossing? |
There is no border. The Malik claimed they were all Afghans.
Originally posted by Afghanan
"Pashtuns/Afghans are the natural citizens of the area from Amu (Amu Darya - Oxus River) to Abaseen (Indus River). Outside of this area of Pashtuns/Afghans, it is their conquered land of aliens/foreigners."
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This reply wasnt addressed to you, it was addressed to your comrade TeldeIndus
Come to Karachi, more Afghans here than in Waziristan. |
Doesnt matter where you go, they will all say the same thing.
Cause the Afghans are so cool they kicked the british's asses. Pity they didn't liberate all of Pakistan too. |
There was no Pakistan back then.
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Afghanan
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Posted: 23-Jan-2006 at 22:31 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
the taleban originated in pakistan and was a pakistani supported regime from the begining.
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The Taliban originated in Afghanistan and Pakistan supported it from the beginning to become a militia to take over the entire nation, but they failed.
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 02:30 |
Originally posted by Afghanan
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Who? Oh, there probably just made up anyway so we can get american funding. . |
Who is made up? Nek Muhammad and Abdullah Mehsud?
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Yeah them.
Originally posted by Afghanan
Hey if the Afghans get organised we'll join 'em anyway, not
just Baluchistan all of pakistan. Point is were the same. The only
difference is which dictator rules us. |
Enough of dictators and extremist Mullahs, we need Truthful people who fight for common people not for Generals and Warlords.
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hear hear.
Originally posted by Afghanan
The transliteration of Qaf is not important. |
If Urdu was a real Persian-Arabic mix language it would be very
important. But Urdu is very similary to Hindi and therefore Qaaf and
Kaaf dont mean anything.
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Writing Qonduz or Kunduz, Qu'ran or Koran doesn't matter, its not the point.
Originally posted by Afghanan
You don't speak Urdu do you? Urdu IS a derivitive of Persian,
also Arabic, Sandskrit and half a dozen other langugages. |
Its not a derivative of Persian, its a derivative of Sanskrit and modified by Perso-Arabic.
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Urdu is derived from Pharsi, the languages are quite similar.
Originally posted by Afghanan
Come to Karachi, more Afghans here than in Waziristan. |
Doesnt matter where you go, they will all say the same thing.
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I believe TeldeIndus is a Pathan
Originally posted by Afghanan
Cause the Afghans are so cool they kicked the british's asses. Pity they didn't liberate all of Pakistan too. |
There was no Pakistan back then.
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Well, Baluchistan, Sind, NWFP, Punjab and Kashmir then. The people existed just not the political entity
What is your point anyway?
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Afghanan
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Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 17:10 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Who? Oh, there probably just made up anyway so we can get american funding. . |
Who is made up? Nek Muhammad and Abdullah Mehsud?
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They are not made up people Hashim, I thought maybe you are smarter than that!
This is Nek Muhammad. He joined the Afghan rebels to fight the Soviets in his teens, and later joined the Taliban. He was a mediator between the Taliban and the Pakistani government but was later assassinated by the US with Pakistani assistance. Pakistan still denies it had any part with it.
Abdullah Mehsud is shown here. He fought with the Taliban and later was captured but released and carried his war in Waziristan where he is still a wanted man after a failed Pakistani rescue attempt of construction workers. He said he will carry Nek's legacy in resisting the Pakistani military and US influence in the region.
Originally posted by Afghanan
If Urdu was a real Persian-Arabic mix language it would be very important. But Urdu is very similary to Hindi and therefore Qaaf and Kaaf dont mean anything.
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Writing Qonduz or Kunduz, Qu'ran or Koran doesn't matter, its not the point. |
If you pronounce Quran Sharif with mistakening the Qaaf and Kaaf you can change the meaning of a word so it does make a difference.
Originally posted by Afghanan
You don't speak Urdu do you? Urdu IS a derivitive of Persian, also Arabic, Sandskrit and half a dozen other langugages. |
Its not a derivative of Persian, its a derivative of Sanskrit and modified by Perso-Arabic.
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Urdu is derived from Pharsi, the languages are quite similar. |
That is incorrect, Urdu uses Perso-Arabic script with many Persian loan words but the base of the language, as well as the family of languages is more related to Indo-Aryan sanskrit not Western Iranian Farsi.
Well, Baluchistan, Sind, NWFP, Punjab and Kashmir then. The people existed just not the political entity. |
Baluchistan gave access to the British to invade Afghanistan because they were bribed. Kashmir was already under occupation by the British, and Punjab was being ruled by Ranjit Singh who came to power thanks to the British who favored him over any other ruler. The managing of the different provincial zones was different back then as well.
What is your point anyway?
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My point is Musharraf is not a legitimate leader for a Muslim country, and Pakistan is a federalist military run state that uses Islam when it wants to, and will turn its back on its own Muslims if it means the survival of the military regime.
Edited by Afghanan
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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TeldeIndus
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Posted: 24-Jan-2006 at 19:10 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
and dont say that the only reason pakistan supported them was because of stability because pakistan could have supported the liberal northern opposition and still have had a stable country.
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Clueless.
1) Northern alliance arent liberal
2) The Northern Alliance cannot control anything. They only have control of Kabul. The only reason the rest of Afghanistan isnt in anarchy is because the warlords are being paid off.
There's other reasons but I'll leave it at that.
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We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 13:01 |
Forget how Pakistan is medling in foreign affairs, the Musharaf regime is partially responsible for for the Bajaur massacre, in which 18 civilians were murdered by the US. But seing as Pakistan has 70,000 troops along the Pak/Afghan for US aid, along with the information that the Musharaf regime shares intellegence with the US. It becomes clear that Pakistan may have even aided such barbaric atrocities all for the sake of closer relations witht the US.
The Musharaf regime should have dealt with such event straight away, rather we hear of American senator John McCain saying on CBS TV, that such strikes cannot be ruled out in the future.
And yet Musharaf is quite pleased at the progress of Pak/US relations
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Iranian41ife
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 17:20 |
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Originally posted by prsn41ife
and dont say that the only reason pakistan supported them was because of stability because pakistan could have supported the liberal northern opposition and still have had a stable country.
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Clueless.
1) Northern alliance arent liberal
2) The Northern Alliance cannot control anything. They only have control of Kabul. The only reason the rest of Afghanistan isnt in anarchy is because the warlords are being paid off.
There's other reasons but I'll leave it at that.
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imi talking about more liberal than the taleban. pakistan has no excuse for supporting the taleban.
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"If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 21:04 |
Originally posted by Maju
How could Pakistan help Turkey in 1914-20 if Pakistan didn't even exist at all? |
Yes, Indian Muslims showed a great sympathy towards Turkish cause, war to survive against imperialism,and sent help even by donating their jewelries etc...But the date is a little wrong, the help is more sent after 1920.
Gandhi also had shown a similar political support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the Turkish cause in the war. You know, even at that time,leaders like Gandhi,Nehru and Jinnah was influential on the Indian folk.
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 21:08 |
It is certain that Malaysia had caught a great amount of development in the latest years. After the Asian economic crisis and IMF disaster, they aren't even in debt right now...So commendable economical administration was shown in Malaysia in the last years.
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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TeldeIndus
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 22:25 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Gandhi also had shown a similar political support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the Turkish cause in the war. You know, even at that time,leaders like Gandhi,Nehru and Jinnah was influential on the Indian folk.
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Not sure I agree with you on Gandhi Nehru and Jinnah, though I could be wrong. Gandhi just wanted to enlist Muslim support for his own cause and so sided with the Khalifat movement.
"To enlist Muslim support in his movement, Gandhi supported the Khilafat cause and became a member of the Central Khilafat Committee. "
"Soon after Gandhi called off the Non-cooperation movement, leaving Khilafat leaders with a feeling of betrayal."
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/01368/web/text/independe nce/movements/pg-3.html
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We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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TeldeIndus
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Posted: 26-Jan-2006 at 22:31 |
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We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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OSMANLI
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Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 04:07 |
Originally posted by prsn41ife
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Originally posted by prsn41ife
and dont say that the only reason pakistan supported them was because of stability because pakistan could have supported the liberal northern opposition and still have had a stable country.
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Clueless.
1) Northern alliance arent liberal
2) The Northern Alliance cannot control anything. They only have control of Kabul. The only reason the rest of Afghanistan isnt in anarchy is because the warlords are being paid off.
There's other reasons but I'll leave it at that.
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imi talking about more liberal than the taleban. pakistan has no excuse for supporting the taleban.
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I know what your talking about, however iam simply leading the discusion back to the topic. 'Best Muslim leader'
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Afghanan
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Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 06:20 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
Forget how Pakistan is medling in foreign affairs, the Musharaf regime is partially responsible for for the Bajaur massacre, in which 18 civilians were murdered by the US. But seing as Pakistan has 70,000 troops along the Pak/Afghan for US aid, along with the information that the Musharaf regime shares intellegence with the US. It becomes clear that Pakistan may have even aided such barbaric atrocities all for the sake of closer relations witht the US.
The Musharaf regime should have dealt with such event straight away, rather we hear of American senator John McCain saying on CBS TV, that such strikes cannot be ruled out in the future.
And yet Musharaf is quite pleased at the progress of Pak/US relations
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It is VERY unfortunate what happenned to those 18 civilians in Bajaur, but one thing that I have known, is that the Pakistani regime is no different than the British before them, they bomb their own people without discriminitation. I dont know how anybody can think that Musharraf is the best "Muslim" leader.
Look what the Pakistani military did recently in December in Baluchistan:
WARNING: Pictures are of Graphic Content
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures...Blownup_007.jpg
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures...ed_19-12-05.jpg
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures.../Rocket_007.jpg
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures...02-19-12-05.jpg
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures...01-19.12-05.jpg
http://www.balochvoice.com/Pictures...Blownup_005.jpg
Edited by Afghanan
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The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 19:13 |
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Gandhi also had shown a similar political support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the Turkish cause in the war. You know, even at that time,leaders like Gandhi,Nehru and Jinnah was influential on the Indian folk.
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Not sure I agree with you on Gandhi Nehru and Jinnah, though I could be wrong. Gandhi just wanted to enlist Muslim support for his own cause and so sided with the Khalifat movement.
"To enlist Muslim support in his movement, Gandhi supported the Khilafat cause and became a member of the Central Khilafat Committee. "
"Soon after Gandhi called off the Non-cooperation movement, leaving Khilafat leaders with a feeling of betrayal."
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/01368/web/text/independe nce/movements/pg-3.html
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But the issue is not enlisting Muslim support, it is supporting anti-imperialist struggle of Turks politically from the heart...The Muslims did that both financially and politically, Gandhi did that just politically.
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 20:18 |
Gandhi also had shown a similar political support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the Turkish cause in the war. |
I never knew Gandhi was such a macho hawk.
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TeldeIndus
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Posted: 27-Jan-2006 at 20:36 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Originally posted by TeldeIndus
Originally posted by Kapikulu
Gandhi also had shown a similar political support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the Turkish cause in the war. You know, even at that time,leaders like Gandhi,Nehru and Jinnah was influential on the Indian folk.
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Not sure I agree with you on Gandhi Nehru and Jinnah, though I could be wrong. Gandhi just wanted to enlist Muslim support for his own cause and so sided with the Khalifat movement.
"To enlist Muslim support in his movement, Gandhi supported the Khilafat cause and became a member of the Central Khilafat Committee. "
"Soon after Gandhi called off the Non-cooperation movement, leaving Khilafat leaders with a feeling of betrayal."
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/01368/web/text/independe nce/movements/pg-3.html
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But the issue is not enlisting Muslim support, it is supporting anti-imperialist struggle of Turks politically from the heart...The Muslims did that both financially and politically, Gandhi did that just politically.
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I see. But it seems that Gandhi was more interested in enlisting Muslim support to his Congress so that he could gain more political power for himself - suggesting it was not any princpled stand or fist on the table for the Ottoman caliphate that made him join the Khalifate committee.
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We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty - Nguyen Co Thatch, Vietnamese foreign minister
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 28-Jan-2006 at 05:15 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
Gandhi also had shown a similar political
support in this issue.He had put his fist on the table to support the
Turkish cause in the war. |
I never knew Gandhi was such a macho hawk. |
Oh Gandhi was the most cunning and intellegent basta.. politician
probably in history. The first of his lies is that he peacefully
attained independence for the subcontinent. The second that he made a
significant effect on gaining independence. I was discussing with an
Indian friend of mine and we both agreed that the subcontinent would
have been far better off without Gandhi.
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Gharanai
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 14:11 |
Originally posted by OSMANLI
Who is your fave.
Mine is Erdogan. He has certanly brought around a lot of improvement in Turkey.
Above: Erdogan is not willing to accept any other rulings from the EU
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Dear i would like to know if it is right that the header says muslim ruler or not because i don't know what have Mr. Erdogan done for islam but to take off the scarfs of our muslim sisters studying in schools, colleges and universities.
so please clearify it what is that he has done for Islam not for Turkey.
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