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Indians of East and South Africa

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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Indians of East and South Africa
    Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 09:55

Despite the long history and pervasive Indian influence on every facet of East and South African commercial life, Indian presence in this region of the world is still little known. Some even argue that early Indian migrants, not White settlers, provided the essential groundwork for the subsequent colonialist economy.

There are many issues that one can look into regarding this topic. E.g. the comparative socioeconomic condition of the Indian settlers in countries as diverse as Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania, Rwanda, Zimbabwe & Zambia (former Rhodesia), Democratic Republic of Congo (Zaire), and South Africa; the relationship between the Indian settlers and the native African people; the ambiguous ethnic identity of these settlers; the relationship between these settlers and the native Indians. The situation of these settlers is further complicated by their mass migration into countries like Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States (which provided the background for the 1991 film "Mississippi Masala" featuring a young Denzel Washington).

For those who are interested in this fascinating topic, go to:

http://www.asiansinafrica.com/

 

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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 10:04

I forgot to mention there's also considerable Indian (mainly Goan Indians) presence in the ex-Portuguese colonies of Mozambique and Angola (less sizeable). Of course, there has been a historical presence of Indians in Madagascar, Mauritius, and Reunion. From the 1970s-80s onwards, Indian professionals also began heading towards the more prosperous African countries like Botswana and Nigeria.

The Indian presence in countries like Senegal, Ghana, Gambia, Namibia, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Sudan etc. is comparatively limited or negligible.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 12:09

Isn't this one of the finer points of how the British empire worked. And not just Africa, all over SE Asia and the Carribean too.

Britain migrated 10's of thousands of Chinese to countries to act as the working classes and do the manuel labour.

Thousands of Indians to act act as the middle classes, do the civil service administration, policing and skilled manuel labour.

Then a couple of hundred English to sit on their fat arses all day doing sod all.

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  Quote flyingzone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Dec-2005 at 16:38

Paul, while your depiction of the hierarhical order of the inner working of the British Empire is very interesting, I don't think it's historically correct. For one, I don't think you can forcibly put the Chinese migrants into this picture. The emigration of Chinese (especially from Quangdong province) had long existed even prior to the period of Western imperialism. Poor peasants left China because of poverty, not as recruits working for the British Empire. Some did, eventually, such as those in the case of Malaysia. But a lot of them were second, or third generation immigrants there, and they worked as "middle persons" rather than laborers.

Moreover, while many Chinese migrants did start off doing manual labor (especially those who went to North America), a lot of those who went to Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin America, and the Carribeans actually did set up businesses (usually the laundry business) of their own. Some of them, not unlike their Indian counterparts, contributed substantially to the local economy.

And not unlike the Chinese, emigration of Indians had long existed before the age of Western Imperialism, as indicated in the article that I posted. But as a result of the colonialization of India by Great Britain, the Indian immigrants did eventually play a role in the various colonial outposts of the British Empire. India was always regarded as the "Jewel of the British Empire" (or was it Hong Kong?).

 

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  Quote stupidumboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 12:11

Indians dominate East and South African economy like Chinese dominate SE Asian economy.

 

 

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 21:51

It is an interesting point that while Mugabe gleefully persecutes his farmers of European origin, he has also targeted the South Asian merchant class with similar enthusiasm. He regards both as having a stranglehold on the Zimbabwe economy, he thinks both must be removed as an economic power to ensure his own black Africans can have opportunity.

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 22:03

There's a long history of Indians being persecuted in Africa. They enjoyed  a similar status to jews. Being seen as too comercially successful. In Uganda the government persued a highly racist policy expelling all ethnic indans from the country and seizing all their wealth. Across other countries their have been significant racial attcks on them and call for expulsion, Kenya notably bad.

Indians are also common around the world too both Fiji and Guyana had similar expulsions to Uganda and even in the Carribian a lot of these view prevale.



Edited by Paul
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  Quote guo hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 01:42
Originally posted by stupidumboy

Indians dominate East
and South African economy like Chinese dominate
SE Asian economy.





Indian are economic strong in place around Indian
Ocean, like East Africa And Indian Ocean Island like
Manutitus and Maldives.

As for South Africa, the Indian economic power are
stable on Kwa-NataZulu, a province of South Africa
where 85% of the 500,000 Indian South African lives.
The main core of economy in South Africa or
Southern Africa are still dominate by the European
migrate.
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  Quote guo hua Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 01:46
Originally posted by Paul

Isn't this one of the finer points of
how the British empire worked. And not just Africa, all
over SE Asia and the Carribean too.


Britain migrated 10's of thousands of Chinese to
countries to act as the working classes anddo the
manuel labour.


Thousands of Indians to act act as the middle
classes, do the civil service administration, policing
and skilled manuel labour.


Then a couple of hundredEnglish to sit on their fat
arses all day doing sod all.



Chinese migrated to overseas to work as labour is
all by it ownself in search for better income return.

The Indian was employed to serve under their
colonised Master (British) which they was migrated
to serve their master rule.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 01:46
India was always regarded as the "Jewel of the British Empire" (or was it Hong Kong?).


Hong Kong = Pearl
Pearl river, predictably lame cliche.
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 02:08

Originally posted by guo hua

 Chinese migrated to overseas to work as labour is
all by it ownself in search for better income return.

The Indian was employed to serve under their
colonised Master (British) which they was migrated
to serve their master rule.

fraid not,

If the Chinese had turned up on boat without papers they have been packed off and sent hone, same as today.

The Indians weren't slave either, they came of their own free will.

Both would have been recruited by agents in their own country, rather the same as today.



Edited by Paul
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jan-2006 at 02:15
There were Tamil Indians in Malaya before the Brits came along, they went there for trade. Indians also visited other parts of South East Asia, taking their religion with them, from around the 1000 onwards, to this day there are parts of Indonesia, especialy Bali, that are majority Hindu.
I think the Chola kingdom activily conquered parts of the region, or at the very least exerted a strong influence there through its powerfull navy.


Edited by Cywr
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