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    Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 12:14

What was the last king of:

  1. Kingdom of Asturias?
  2. Kingdom of Pamplona (I think Pamplona as 812-970) and who was the first king?
  3. Kingdom of Lotharignia (843-922)?
  4. Kingdom of Leon (until 1065)?
  5. First Bulgarian Empire?
  6. Second Bulgarian Empire?
  7. Dukedom of Normandy in 1204?
  8. Kalmar Union?
  9. Two Kingdoms of Burgundy (as the Southern Kingdom of Burgundy and Northern Kingdom of Burgundy united from 937-1032). ANd who was the first?
  10. Kniazdom of Jaroslavl?
  11. Kievan Rus?

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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2005 at 16:20
Originally posted by rider

What was the last king of:

  1. Kingdom of Asturias?
  2. Kingdom of Pamplona (I think Pamplona as 812-970) and who was the first king?
  3. Kingdom of Leon (until 1065)?

As far as I know all these kingdoms are still under nomnal soverignity of monarchs claiming legitimate descendance for their original rulers. Asturias (or rather "Asturias and Galicia") just started to be called Leon at some point. Then Leon merged with Castile as Castile and Leon (most commonly known as just Castile) and they eventually merged with the Crown of Aragon, after which the kingdom started to be called Spain.

Pamplona is a more complex story: the kingdom was first divided by the first kings of Aragon and Castile, brothers of the legitimate king of Pamplona, Garcia, who killed him. Then the Pamplonese army chose, following the tradition of self rule and elective kings, a new king in the person of Sancho IV, who was assasinated.

After this, Castile annexed the western half of the kingdom and Aragon the eastern one, including Pamplona. The Aragonese dynasty attained then the title of Kings of Pamplona and would be under their rule that the name of the kingdom was gradually changed to Navarre.

When Alphonse the Battler decides to give his kingdom to the Templar Order, the nobility of both kingdoms rebels and soon an new king is appointed to Pamplona, now known as Navarre. This king was Garcia Ramirez, the Restorer. The kingdom continued its existence under the new name till the Spanish invasion of 1512-22. Even, after the loss of Pamplona, Navarre continued existing for some time as an independent kingdom till it was united to France dynastically and then completely. Anyhow the kings of Spain and France kept entitling themselves as Kings of Navarre, that is Pamplona.

So if you want, the last king of Pamplona under that name and as a fully independent state, was Sancho IV. The last king of Pamplona with that name was Alphonse of Aragon. And the last king +/- legitimated to claim that title (in the modern form of Navarre) is Juan Carlos Borbn, incumbent king of Spain.

The myth places Eneko Aritza (Iigo Arista) as first king of Pamplona but this obscure figure can't be confirmed historically.


  1. Kingdom of Lotharignia (843-922)?


I think no such kingdom ever existed. Lothairingia was part of the domains of Lothaire, heir of Charlemagne as Emperor of Franks and Romans. His brothers incorporated that strip that will later be dependant of the Eastern Frankish kingdom under the status of Duchy.

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Posts: 3148 		  Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 02:23

7.Dukedom of Normandy in 1204?

kind of a complicated answer:  Some sources say That John I was duke of Normandy in 1204 others say he lost it in1203. either way After which it was "united with the French crown"

in addition in :1469: Charles of France, last Duke of Normandy, is dispossessed of his Dukedom. 

 after which it became the province of Normandy

 

 

 
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 11:50

Well, thanks.

I know the complicated stories of Spainsh kingdoms and that is why I gave the dates. I mostly considered the change of the names as a set up of a new kingdom.

Thanks, Dawn.

Lotharingia has existed and there was a king for It until some kings of HRE's reign.

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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 16:37
  1. Ordono I 850-866 was the last king of Asturia.
  2. Garcia III Sanchez 926970 was the last king of Pamplona and Eneko Aritza was the first.
  3. Charles III "the Simple"
  4. Ferdinand I the Greatb was the last king of Leon.
  5. Tsar Ivan Vladislav of Bulgaria.

  6. TSAR Ivan Sratsimir (1356-1396)

  7. John of england(annexed by French  in 1204) but the English kings continued to claim the title of Duke until the 1259 A.D.

  8. 1513-1523 : Christian II (Christian II).

  9.  Rudolf II (912937) was  the first king of burgundy and Rudolph III (9931032) was the last king.

  10. The last ruler of kievan-rus was Danylo of Galicia 1239-1240 A.D
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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 16:40
 Please rider correct my information if I made a mistake and help me by giving the last kniaz of Jaroslavl name.
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 17:04
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

  1. ...
  2. Garcia III Sanchez 926� was the last king of Pamplona and Eneko Aritza was the first.


That's wrong. How would a king that reigned before Sancho III the Great be the last king of Pamplona? Sancho was king of Pamplona till his death in 1035 (aditionally he was also count-consort and regent of Castile, count of Aragon, Sobrarbe and Ribagorza, regent of Leon and protector of Wasconia/Gascony). Then, as I have explained before, Garcia Sanchez (he must be the IV) inherited him till the battle of Atapuerca where he got killed. The army then elected Sancho IV but he was assasintated in a plot involving his own brothers. Then the crown passed to Aragon until Alphonse the Battler, when Pamplona is restored under the name of Navarre.

I've been checking the names of the kings during this period:
  1. Garcia III Sanchez (926-970)
  2. Sancho II Garces (970-994; became count of Aragon)
  3. Garcia IV Sanchez, the Trembler (994-1000)
  4. Sancho III Garces, the Great (1000-1035)
  5. Garcia V Sanchez (1035-54)
  6. Sancho IV Garces of Pealen (1054-76)
And then it comes a series of Aragonese kings that also wielded the title of Kings of Pamplona, until Alphonse I the Battler, who wanted to give his kingdom to the Templars and was posthumously overruled by the Courts of both Aragon and Pamplona. Only since Garcia VI the Restorer is the (again independent) kingdom called Navarre, though some county of that name had already been existing under Aragonese rule in the lands south of Pamplona.

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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 17:10
Originally posted by rider

Lotharingia has existed and there was a king for It until some kings of HRE's reign.



You're right. Lothair II was named King of his own Kingdom upon the death of his father Emperor Lothair I. Upon his death, the kingdom was quickly divided between Western an Eastern Franks. Duration of the kingdom 855-869. First and last king: Lothair II.

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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 05:50

 I answered the questions based on rider conditions he considered the change of the names as a set up of a new kingdom.

After Garcia III Sanchez (926-970) the title became Count of Aragon.

then Garcia III Sanchez was the last king with title  King of Pamplona.

don't forget his questions are traps and you fell in it.


 

 
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 11:48
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

 I answered the questions based on rider conditions he considered the change of the names as a set up of a new kingdom.

After Garcia III Sanchez (926-970) the title became Count of Aragon.

then Garcia III Sanchez was the last king with title  King of Pamplona.

don't forget his questions are traps and you fell in it.



Nope. Pamplona was a kingdom (state) and Aragon just a county (province). The main title of the ruler was King of Pamplona. Furthermore, after Sancho III, the Kingdom was divided and two more kings ruled only in Pamplona, not in Aragon nor Castile.

The new royal titles confered to Aragon and Castile came from the royal (and quasi-Imperial) quality of Pamplona. It was the king of Pamplona (and count of Aragon and Castile) who wished his sons all to be kings equally. The kings of Castile and Aragon are therefore kings only because they are heirs (in these domains) of King Sancho III of Pamplona, aka the Emperor. Even after being divided by Aragon and Castile, the part of the kingdom under Aragonese rule kept the royal title and the separate law - it never ceased to exist: it was just dinastically incorporated to the crown of Aragon (also ruling in other domains: Barcelona, etc.).

I know what I'm talking about.

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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 14:07

Who said you don't know what you are talking about your Knowledge is very good but I am sorry to disappointed you in this time here is my argue:-

Sorry I was not clear in my ex-post you are right about the title (Count) but also the kingdom name has changed to Navarre.

The last king with title king of Pamplona was Garcia III Sanchez 926970.

 Garcia was succeeded by his son Sancho II Garces, nicknamed Abarca, who apparently was the first historic King of Navarre or the first to use the style(of Navarre) rather than (of Pamplona).

 Sancho II  ruled from Pamplona as king of Navarre and count of Aragon from 970 to 994. The valley of Aragon he had inherited from his mother.

And rider considered the change of the names as a set up of a new kingdom.
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 21:37
Originally posted by Ahmed The Fighter

The last king with title king of Pamplona was Garcia III Sanchez 926�.

 Garcia was succeeded by his son Sancho II Garces, nicknamed Abarca, who apparently was the first historic King of Navarre or the first to use the style(of Navarre) rather than (of Pamplona).



That's not correct, sorry. The kingdom was still named Pamplona until at least the Castilian-Aragonese invasion of the late 11th cantury. In fact, I think the name was kept even later but a county named Navarre (Nabarra) was created south of Pamplona and eventually this name was transfered to the Kingdom when it was restored.

Why would the kings of Pamplona change the name of their realm for Nabarra, when they kept other lands that didn't fit in that description (nabar in Basque means both brown and extended, open). Nabarra therefore was the brownish (Mediterranean climate) open land south or the mountains, with Pamplona city as its northernmost limit. But prior to the partition, Pamplona included many lands that did't fit in that description. Only under Aragonese rule a county of that name was created an later the name extended to all the state, when restored.

Another thing is that historians use at times both names indistinctly, calling the kings of Pamplona, kings of Navarre, as after all it's just a question of names and both are the same entity.

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Posts: 1106 		  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 04:41
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by rider

Lotharingia has existed and there was a king for It until some kings of HRE's reign.



You're right. Lothair II was named King of his own Kingdom upon the death of his father Emperor Lothair I. Upon his death, the kingdom was quickly divided between Western an Eastern Franks. Duration of the kingdom 855-869. First and last king: Lothair II.

You are wrong,Lothair II was the first but not the last and rider specified the end date in 922 A.D.

The last king was Charles the simple 911-922 A.D.

After Lothar's death in 855, his realm was divided between his sons:

Louis II, the eldest son, succeeded his father as Emperor and received Italy.
Lothar II, the second son, received the Frankish parts of his father's realm, which after him were called Lotharingia.
Charles received Burgundy.
this is from wikipedia

a list of Lothairingia

Kings of Lotharingia

Charles the Bald claimed Lotharingia at his nephew's death and was crowned king in Metz, but his brother Louis the German opposed his claim and in 870 the Treaty of Meersen divided Lotharingia between the two brothers and subsequently their sons. In 880, the Treaty of Ribemont gave the whole of Lotharingia to Louis the Younger, son of Louis the German.

After this Lotharingia was permanently subsumed into the Eastern kingdom and the Holy Roman Empire



Edited by Ahmed The Fighter
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Posts: 2419 		  Quote JanusRook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 13:56

I would suggest checking out http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html 

To boil it down here's what i got:

1. Alphonse IV the Monk (King of Leon 914-31)........925-931

To Leon thereafter...

Mention should be made that the Asturian dignity did not disappear with the dissolution of the Kingdom. From the 14th century on Castilian and then Spanish heirs to the throne were regularly styled Prince or Princess of Asturias. It may be of some interest to note these heirs, although the dignity was titular only and implied no actual rulership over the Asturian province.

2. First King (Counts actually)- Iigo I Arista...........c. 810-851

    Last King-Fortuno..............882-905

3. Actually it's technically Lorraine so Stanislaus........................................1737-1766

4. Alphonse IX......................................1188-1230

5. John Vladislav....................................1015-1018

6. John Stracimir (at Vidin).........................1360-1396

7. Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, 1448-1450

9. 1st-

  • Chlothar I.........................................534-561 with...
  • Childebert I.......................................534-558

    •    last-

    Marie.............................................1477-1482

    11. Daniel of Galitzia............................1239-1240 d. 1264

    Again all that just came from the site, some of it may not be what your looking for since it's difficult to tell when kingdoms begin or end, it all depends on what your looking for. Hopefully this will help you a bit.

     
    Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

    Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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    Posts: 6565     		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 22:19
    Originally posted by JanusRook

    I would suggest checking out http://www.hostkingdom.net/regindex.html

    2. First King (Counts actually)- Iigo I Arista...........c. 810-851

        Last King-Fortuno..............882-905



    EZETZ! = NOPE! Fortun was just the last king of the first dynasty.

    See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Navarre. It says clearly that:

    Pamplona, name of the capital, was used as the only or main name of the kingdom until the period of dominion of Aragon (1076-1134). However, the territorial designation Navarre came in use as alternative name in late 10th century, though it was used much less often. Aragonese kings created a county named Navarre in central areas of kingdom of Pamplona. When the country regained its independence, from 1134 onwards, the name Navarre was the main designation of the (new) kingdom.

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    Posts: 4664     		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2005 at 12:35
    Well, Ahmed haas been more correct, as I specified the dates. And the title, is that Navarre is more commonly used from that epriod from my senses.
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