"Gender Jihad"

At the time the Qur'an was written, it was the equivalent of the every major accomplishment women have made in the last 100 years rolled into one.

The Middle East went from a place where female babies were burried alive, where females at any stage in their life could be disposed of, and usually were, ahead of any difficulty (food shortage, etc.) to a place where women were valued and given rights far more equal to those of men than most women around the world enjoy today.

Mohammed's own wife, Khadija, was an older woman, a successful businessperson - she proposed marriage to him, not the other way around. This would have been like walking naked on your hands on water before Mohammed and Islam.

The Qur'an lifted women up using examples relevent to the time.

Some Muslims believe we should stay as we were then - with the same technology and societal structure. Others believe we must try to find meaning behind the lessons of the Qur'an and apply them to today's world.

Originally posted by Maju Turkey may be the most clear and radical case but most Muslim countries have secular laws and only apply Sharia in some specific matters. I can't be sure of all the states, but I believe that Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, PNA, Syria, Iraq (under Hussein and in the transitional period), Azerbaijan, the Central Asian repulics, Pakistan (except in the tribal area), Bangla Desh, Indonesia, Malaysia, Zanzibar, Seychelles, Comores, Eritrea, Djibouti, Senegal, Gambia, Mali, Chad have civil law as pritoritary. All them are majoritarily Muslim countries - I have intentionately excluded multireligious states such as Albania, Lebanon or Kenya. In fact the countries applying Sharia as dominant law are just a minority: Saudi Arabia and Iran are the most extreme cases, the other states of the Arabian peninsula fit in this pattern too, as do Sudan (partially) and (quite surprisingly) Lybia. A few sud-Saharan states may fall in this category too, including some federal states of Nigeria.

Many countries listed here have religious parties that sway their vote towards Sharia based standards of living. Most of these standards have recourse to legal influences on citizen rights. That is one of my issues. Politicians are making 'religious' edicts without popular consent and they often look toi hadith while creating them. This mindset can lead officers of the state towards an overdependence on beliefs or solutions that may or may not have practical implications today. The latter countries are the obvious ones as you said. Yet most, aside from Turkey, allow religion into their constitutions and legal bodies of legislature. This is a big difference.

Originally posted by Maju Beyond simple secularism, a concept that can be even adopted by fascists, there is the belief that human rights are above anything else. This is a sort of humanism but I don't know what specific tag can it have, as humanism is older and wider.

Humanism can represent pragmatic and reformative values. Much are beneficial. Yet we need to be on guard from the over sensitivity to human needs at the expense of ...

Religious or secular humanism has a lot going for it. I am a proponent humanistic ideals, education and government. Moderation is still the key here. Religious values and rituals, though personal yet mutual, may be discussed. The discussion itself will influence secular decision making. But the secular state needs to decide to what degree it will allow humanistic and/or religious activities and rituals to influnce national standards of living.

Let me start by saying that I'm a western muslim and that I sincerely hope for the complete emancipation of muslim women all around the world. I could never mistreat a sister, a mother, a daughter or a wife. It's barbaric and unislamic in my humble point of view. I believe God spoke through the Qur'an and through Muhammad's example, but muslims shouldn't be trying to live a life of the 7th Century Arabia! God has provided us with intelligence and good sense. So let us reason.

A great part of the muslim world of today is sick, and there are many reasons for that. But the greatest one, I think, is the mentality. Fortunately, thank God, many young muslims dare to think differently and act differently.

It is with enormous satisfaction that I see women like Misla (and I must say I have been very well impressed with the photos of Bosnia she's shown) and others, standing out and living their religion without hate or backdrawn mentality.

I've not been a muslim for a very long time but let me tell you that I'm tired of attending to mosques where inevitably (with some honorous exceptions!) the Imam has always the same speech (some needless khutbas) and where people just can't healthfully debate or recognize what is wrong in the islamic world and what we as muslims could do about it.

Not to mention the saddening everyday news about the bloodbath in Iraq (of course the US have responsibility, but let's leave that for other threads), the not-so-surprinsingly ghazi Iranian president, the once-and-then extremists attacks (apparently, now the jihad is to be carried whether in evil western or corrupted muslim countries!!) instigated by some angry mullahs that send their pupils to bomb themselves in order to get Allah's favour, etc...

I think that we all, as muslims, owe to ourselves, to the world and to God, to clearly and definetely step out into the modern age, to reform the old mentalities and, insh'Allah, to be once more (because we were before) a thriving example of prosperity, tolerance and spirituality to mankind! 

 

Infidel. Ithink the major problem in the Muslim world is that non-Islamic cultures from the period of Jahaliye or even from the non-Muslim world have leaked into what many think of as Islam.

For example Pakistan has many cultural influences that originate from Hindus. The Taliban not allowing girls to go to schools, again this is cultural thinking and not Islamic at all.

There are also various topics to address as in Islam and the 'modern' world. We must never try to change or misintrepret the words of the Qur'an and Sunnah, other wise we mind end up like the Christians who have had countless major changes to the Bible (still the word of God?). But issues such as eating with the hand, because our Prphet (pbuh) did so, well the knife and fork was invented after his period (infact by Ali Bin Knafe). So i suppose eating with a knife and fork should be halal, as should the driving of a car instead of using a camel.

Thus Islam allows a certain level of leway for technlogical change.

If this topic is to stay open we should keep our discussion about the title at hand instead of deviate into Islamic philosophies. I think that we have already covered enough history on our versions of orthodox and progressive beliefs.   

Well OSMANLI...

tht part is one thing... wht about polygamy... is not to said tht I am against it.. coz it is allowed by Islam... Unfortunately the men... well.. most of u here are guys... are taking it as an excuse to marry more thn one (not to say u guys are like tht!)...why it is necessary to do so when ur existing wife is providing whtever necessity u need in life...

The worst part is.. when the wife reluctant to allow for the second marriage.. maybe she will run back to her parents home or wht so ever..and her husband is taking the excuse tht the first wife didn't respect him...or wht was it called? nusyuz? disobey... give him a good support to have second marriage... huh!!!  well to allowed ur husband to hv a second wife is much worst thn he spank u....

-just a thought-

(wont allow my future husband to marry for second time.. na'uzubillah.. kill!!kill!!die!!die!!  - just joking)

What I don't understand is why it is written (and has not been changed or updated yet) that women get "beaten" if they don't satisfy the criterias of their "man". Even if only "slightly" beaten (by the way, what does that mean? "Slightly" = just hematomas and "heavily"= broken bones or death?) There is no difference, it's a "beating" anyhow! Not only does physical abuse cause pain and suffering, but psychological disorders as well. Abused women live in fear of their lives and must remain "subdued" so as not to enrage her "man". That's not an equal balance in any relationship. And what about not permitting women to drive, or vote, or go to University. Why not? Is it that the men are afraid of women becoming an equal to them? Are men afraid that educated women will somehow control them? Or is it a "macho" thing that is masqueraded as "cultural"?

Thank you, Osmanli, for your kind and informative response. I hope you were not offended by my questions as that is not my intention, but rather, to gain more knowledge as to the different customs and cultures in which we live. Many women are physically abused in America and all over the world as well. It's just something that women have had to endure since the beginning of time (maybe because they have always been considered as the "weaker" sex), and probably always will, but there is no harm in hoping that positive changes are forthcoming in the not too distant future! That is always my hope for the future generations of women (I certainly don't think it will happen in my lifetime)! Thanks again!



Edited by morticia

Originally posted by morticia Those are very pro-women statements you've made and I thank you on behalf of all women for saying them.

You're being too kind. I don't think women, muslim or not, need my statements for anything. What they definitely need is to stand up for their own rights and their families, societies and cultural environments to open up and to mentally evolve in a way that it may be possible for women to actually be equal to men.

Originally posted by morticia May I ask then, what were you before becoming a muslim and what compelled you to become one?

I was culturally a christian but a pratical non-believer. There were many a reason that led me to Islam, but the definite one was reading the Qur'an. Then, deep down isinde, it all made sense to me.

Jazakallahu Khairan 

Edited by Infidel