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Admiral YI Sun Shin

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    Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 07:32
hi guys, in this forum, please post interesting facts that you know about Admiral Yi and his achievements, this is for a school paper so help me out here!! thnx
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 08:00
He's often considerd the "Francis Drake of Asia".
"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 12:44
oh hes more than that, I think if you add all enemy ships sunk and battles would , statisitcally, be the best admiral in history.  Although he didnt design the turtle ship, as claimed, he greatly improved it and made new ones, in addition to his panokson and good cannons he would troll around the southern coast of Korean shores and trap japanese ships between the islands and in bad areas and blow them to smithereens.  I would tell you more and post links but I know thee are many other people here more than capable of doing htat.
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 17:43
invented a flamethrower cannon for his ships.
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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 18:55

Here is a long summery.  Just take what you think is important

Okay, be4 I start presenting Admiral Yi, I want to say that he is NOT that Yi Sun Shin in Age of Conquerors.  That game made Korea out of imagination...

----

Yi Sun Shin

----

Imjin War:

It all started after Japanese unification under Doyotomi Hideyoshi.  He was an ambitious men, he watned to conquer india.  He also needed to give land to his warriors who served under him.  So, he decided to invade Korea.

The initial Japanese Expeditions were divided into 9 groups, all sent before April 6:

1-Gonishi Yukinaga (18700 men)

2- Gato Kiyomasa (20800)

3- Guruda Nagamasa (12000)

4- Simazu Yoshi-hiro (15000)

5- Hookushima Masanori (24700)

6- Gobayakawa Dakakake (15700)

7- Mori Terumodo (30000)

8- Ukida Hide-yie' (10000)

9- Hashiba Hidekasu (11500)

158800 men in first expedition.  They were armed with sword, shield, spears, bows, and most importantly, muskets.  These were introduced by the Portuguese, and these weapons were not known by Korea.

The first wave reached Busan.  The soldiers, never seen a musket in their life, thought that these Japanese were using spears and so brought longer spears to "deal" with them.  Of course, they failed miserably.

The Japs continued to move on.  Before Yi got into action, he received the following transmission:

-Japanese ships number nearly 500

-They captured Busan, Kimhe, Yangsan, etc

-Though the Admiral in that region (kyongsan- and his name is Won kiun) destroyed 10 ships (a lie), overwhelming number of Japanese streamed on and thus he retreated

Meeting place : Dang Po

----

some facts about Yi
 

-Built his own navy

-Designed Turtle ship- world's first ironclad ship (first turlte ship sat sail in April 11th- 27.6X10.4X6.6 Meters, Ironclad, spike from its back, has dragon face, 8 rows on each side making it a total of 16, )

-Raised his own militia

-Built his own fields to feed his troops

-Never lost a battle under his command

-Forged his own weapons from blacksmith

-Praised by their enemies, Japan, as well

Basically, he made his own country .  This makes him a bit better than Nelson.

--------------------

Main battles:

Okpo: (May 7th, 1592)

Korean Ships: 91

Japanese Ship: 50

Result: 26 Japanese ships down compared to one korean got shot lightly in his arm

First major naval battle between Japan and Korea, Victory due to the fact that it was a surprise attack.

Sa Chon (May 29, 1592)

Korean: 25 + 1 Turtle ship

Japanese: 13

Result:  All Japanese ships down, about 4 Koreans killed (Yi was injured in arm)

This was the first battle with turtle ships.  Yi lured the enemy into ambush once again.

Han San (September 8, 1592)

Korean: 48 + 3 turtle ships

Japan: 73

Result: 42 Japanese ships down, No Korean ship sunk

This is one of the top 3 Korean victories in Imjin war.  He first lured enemy into Han San straight.  Yi then used the T cross, surrounding the incoming ships, followed by another one, and crushed the upcoming forces.  KRUSHING victory, only 4 Japanese retured to base (Japanese sources say around 1000).

The T cross tactic was later used by a Japanese general who studied Yi to defeat the Russians in Japo-Russian war.

Angol (September 10, 1592)
 
Korea: 56 (3 Turtles included)
Japan: 43
Result: 42 Japanese ships sunk, no Korean ship sunk
This battle had Korea under locational disadvantage, but due to excellent leadership and concentration of fire on the biggest Japanese ships, victory was archieved
 
Busan (November 1, 1592)
 
Korea: 170 + 3 turtle ships
Japan: 470
Result: 128 Japanese ships sunk, no Korean ship lost
Heavy training from Korea for this planned war, and used longer cannon range to advantage for victory
 
Jang Moon (1594 November 29~ December 4)
 
Korea: 50
Japan: 117
Result: 2 ships sunk, no korean loss
=========
By this time, Won Kiun(mentioned before Yi started) got jealous of Yi and decided to incriminate him for a crime ne never commited.  Yi was soon exiled to death, and on his way, it is said that his father died...and he could not visit the place because he was in exile (It was a bad thing due to the fact that Korea at that time was confusious).  Then, by persuation of another brilliant terrestrial general, Wol Kiun, Yi was back on duty, but under the title of ChoongMuGong, meaning "loyal but without honor".  During that time, the battle of Chil Chul Riang waged on, under leadership of Won Kiun.
========
 
Chil Chul Riang(July 16, 1597)

Korean: every naval ship: 268, no Yi sun Shin

Japan:

Result: 256 Korean ship sunk

Won Kiun was a jerk.  He was drinking when the Japanese under a crucial coordination under Dodo Dakatora, Yakijaka Yasuharu, Gurushima michihusa, Gato Yoshia, Simazu Yoshihi attacked in 4.am with nearly 100,000 marines .  No turtle ship was saved.  Only 12, all damaged escaped the massacre when Yi met them

=======

======

Myong Ryang (1598, September 16, one of the greatest naval victory in the world)

Korea: 12, No Turtle ships

Japan: 330

Result: 133 Japanese ships sunk, no korean ship sunk(only 34 men died)

Yi found a narrow straight named Myong Riang, that had currents accumilating up to 11 knots due to tides and width going as narrow as 300m, that shortening to 130 due to sharp rocks that surround the place.  Yi wanted to use tides to his advantage.  So he lured nearly 330 ships under Gurushima michihusa(btw, he was there to destory almost all of korean navy) into that narrow straight, around 12 am. 

The Japanese ships were divided into 133 elite naval ships and the rest.  The 133 elite ships hurled into that narrow straight, only to realize that the tide has changed against their favor. 

It was 1pm, and Japanese ships were colliding onto the sides, themselves, and the sharp rocks, because the knots moved so quickly--11 knots.  When they reached the narrowest place...militia from land lifted a chain barrier just like in Constantinople, and ships were being toppled alltogether.

Those who did get out Myong Riang faced cannons from the Korean navy.  On first hour, 20 ships were sunk.  But the Japanese ships who couldn't retreat because of the current charged foward in bunches...after the Japanese leader died, slowly the Japanese ships retreated-themselves damaged by current around the area. 

The battle was over.  100,000 Japanese marines under 330 ships were defeated by only 12 Korean ships

Noriang (1598, November 18~19)

Allies: (Ming and Korea)63 and 20 respectively

Japan: around 200

Result: around 200 ships sunk

Yi died on this one   The Japanese, eager to retreat due to death of Doyotomi Hideyoshi, were caught in the middle by the Allies. 



Edited by demon
Grrr..
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 20:50
there was some court intrigue so he was taken out of service for awhile and made a foot soldier, but because the new admiral kept losing every battle they reinstated him.
Also he first made his name fighting the manchus, or in korean the Orangae


Edited by Gubukjanggoon
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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Sep-2004 at 20:59

I believe they were also called Ywuejin people - in less than a century after the invasion, they would conquer China and construct the Qing dynasty.

Francis Drake? Yi Sunshin was no pirate...

Historywiz, I thought you said you were a prof...



Edited by Evildoer
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 14:34
Originally posted by Evildoer

I believe they were also called Ywuejin people - in less than a century after the invasion, they would conquer China and construct the Qing dynasty.

The Jurchens--the Japanese fought against them too, during the Imjin War.

Francis Drake? Yi Sunshin was no pirate...

Pirate?  No, no, no---"El Draque" was a privateer!  

 

 



Edited by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner
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  Quote Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 14:38

Originally posted by Tobodai

oh hes more than that, I think if you add all enemy ships sunk and battles would , statisitcally, be the best admiral in history.

OK let's not get carried away...

 

Although he didnt design the turtle ship, as claimed, he greatly improved it and made new ones, in addition to his panokson and good cannons he would troll around the southern coast of Korean shores and trap japanese ships between the islands and in bad areas and blow them to smithereens.  I would tell you more and post links but I know thee are many other people here more than capable of doing htat.

He was definitely a talented fellow.

However, one still has to wonder what would have happened if the Japanese had been able to secure Portuguese naval support for the Korean Invasion.

"Who despises me and my praiseworthy craft,

I'll hit on the head that it resounds in his heart."


--Augustin Staidt, of the Federfechter (German fencing guild)
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 15:34

"The Jurchens--the Japanese fought against them too, during the Imjin War"

 

Actually, they didn't, Nurhaci did offer help, but Korea was afraid of the rising power of the Jurchen, so they pleaded to Ming not to, and this was rejected. 

 

"However, one still has to wonder what would have happened if the Japanese had been able to secure Portuguese naval support for the Korean Invasion."

 

If Korea has Ming's support there is no way Japan could have won, the resource and manpower of Ming is inexhaustable and even if ming is toppled by internal rebellion the Manchus would then help Korea since Japan would have been a threat.

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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 15:44

Privateer or pirate... all the same thing. KGB thug or Mafia thug.

He was not just a talented fellow. He was a Poseidon. Even without Portugese help Japan might have conquered Korea without him. He defeated Japanese navy at enormous odds. If he just lost a single battle, whole of Korean navy would have been doomed. The ships under his command were the ONLY warships Korea had. (That was why he had only 12 ships after he returned from exile and while he was in exile a stupid commander lost all the others.)Note that Korea was a de-militarized nation at the time with only 3000 garrison at Seoul (!!!).

Francis Drake was not the naval commander in charge of defeating armada - he was under someone else's control. By the way Brits had advantage all along because they were fighting on their own seas - Spaniards could not navigte well in dark North oceans - plus their ships were designed to fire from distance whereas Spanish were more of transport-grapplers, and had to carry troops as well in place of sailors. Plus Brits had a better experience.

Even at the on start of the invasion, almost all experienced Spanish admirals and seamen were opposed to it. It was a stupid blunder made by a Catholic-fanatic who knew nothing about navy (Philip II).

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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 16:14
Someone show me a picture of this fantastic turtle ship
Begging plea of the weak can only receive disrespect, violence and oppression as bestowments. Blood and sweat of the weak can only receive insult, blame and abuse as rewards.

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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 16:37
You can find lots if you go to google and type turtle ship in immage search... I don't know how to post picture here though.
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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 17:08

However, one still has to wonder what would have happened if the Japanese had been able to secure Portuguese naval support for the Korean Invasion

Portuguese navy would have been defeated.. a little more work for Yi Sun Shin, but no real effect to the war

Even without Portugese help Japan might have conquered Korea without him.

I don't think so.. People were rising up in arms, Chosun army was regrouping, and Ming forces would not have let Japan get near the Ming border.. but of course, without the best admiral in the world, it would have been much more difficult



Edited by I/eye
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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 17:41
actually the Japanese did have some skirmishes with the Jurchens, they plowed through korea and got up to the yalu, crossed it, screwed around, and came  back.
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  Quote hansioux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 19:35

I don't think the Portugese would have made a difference either.

 

Just look at Zheng Cheng-Qong's victory over the dutch years later.

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 20:44

Actually, they didn't, Nurhaci did offer help, but Korea was afraid of the rising power of the Jurchen, so they pleaded to Ming not to, and this was rejected

I heard that the King of Korea did not wanted help from "barbarians" such as Jurchens and rejected the offer.

If Korea has Ming's support there is no way Japan could have won, the resource and manpower of Ming is inexhaustable and even if ming is toppled by internal rebellion the Manchus would then help Korea since Japan would have been a threat.

I don't know if that is 100% certain.  Ming was in its decline in that era.  They were running out of money, and imjin war did deplete their treasury.  That resulted in the rise of Qing.

My point is that Ming during imjin was not Ming back then when it commenced.  It was weakened by corruption.

Grrr..
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 20:51
Originally posted by Landsknecht_Doppelsoldner

Originally posted by Evildoer

I believe they were also called Ywuejin people - in less than a century after the invasion, they would conquer China and construct the Qing dynasty.

The Jurchens--the Japanese fought against them too, during the Imjin War.

Francis Drake? Yi Sunshin was no pirate...

Pirate?  No, no, no---"El Draque" was a privateer!  

 

 

 

How is that carried away , no one I have seen, not Nelson, not Drake destroyed as many ships of the enemy.  WHy on earth could he not conceivably be the best admiral? Because hes not european?

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2004 at 22:37

Plus Drake and Nelson were from the greatest European sea-power with the world's best navy. They had advantage against the Armada, and at Trafalgar.

The only advantage that the tiny Korean navy had against the Japanese armada were turtle ships, which Yi Sunshin himself helped to build up. So he was indeed a genious and a political saviour in all sense of the world.

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  Quote I/eye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2004 at 02:14

Admiral Yi's record:

Ratio of ships used:
Korean 1 : 7 Japanese

Ships destroyed, damaged beyond repairable, or captured by enemy:
Korean 0 : 359 Japanese

Casualties suffered:
Korean 243 : 33,780 Japanese

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