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More- should Turkey join the EU???
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Jhangora 
Chieftain 
Joined: 02-Oct-2005 Location: Korea, South Online Status: Offline Posts: 1070 |
 Topic: More- should Turkey join the EU???Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 01:43 |
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I think Turkey would benefit economically by joining the EU.Most Turks want to join the EU.The question should be "R the european nations willing to include Turkey in the EU".
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 Jai Badri Vishal
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azimuth
Caliph 
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 03:03 |
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by Europeist intentions you mean a Union as strong as the US or even stronger? and as i see it there are some members are pro US more than the EU itself. anyway about Turkey, i think Turkey is starting to get bored of EU and started making some relation improvement with the eastern regions, the below picture of the Turkish and Emirates officials signing an investment agreements.
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Alparslan
Colonel 
Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 517 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 12:37 |
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Very nice news. Turkey should improve its relations with every countries of the world. But we have neglected our relations with Islamic world. The relations should be much better. Turkey should stay away from the EU. But the economical relations between the two parts should remain the same. We have focused too much with EU. EU is a declining power and in the future this trend will continue. They will never compete with the rest of the world; Asia-Pasific, Euroasia (Russia, Turkic republics, India and Pakistan) and USA. We will be on loosers side if we eneter into EU. There is a growing opposition against the membership to EU in Turkey and hopefully we will never enter into nonsense union which is alien to our cultures and values..... NO TO EUROPEAN UNION !!!!!!!
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poirot
Arch Duke 
Editorial Staff Joined: 21-May-2005 Location: Belgium Online Status: Offline Posts: 1838 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 13:36 |
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I disagree. I think Turkey's best route is to enter the EU. Brussels welcome you! Well, at least one person in Brussels welcome you! |
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AAAAAAAAAA
"The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.� ~ HG Wells |
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Maju
King 
Joined: 14-Jul-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6565 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 17:06 |
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I'd plainly kick them out. That's clear in the case of the UK and it may affect other countries such as Sweden, Denmark and Poland. We need a strong European Union, not the EFTA (which is deceased, you know). We need to be able to stand as United Europeans in the world and we need a democratic confederation for that. |
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NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
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Alparslan
Colonel
Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 517 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 17:34 |
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Thank you very much Poirot. But it is a fact that very big majority of European people do not want Turkey inside EU. We do not have anything to say but respect them. We will got good relations with EU. We will still be in alliances with them such as NATO. You have to see that starting negotiations is nothing. There will be referandum about Turkey's entrence let us say 20 years later when negotiations end. Then we will be refused anyway. In that case I cannot even imagine what will be the outcome of this. The biggest possibility is a war between Cyprus and Turkey and Greece since Turkey will give all they wanted to be a member. Europe is not honest, I do not trust them. So this nonsense adventure should end now. We will always keep our secular, democratic state forever. Some idiot Turkish politicians and journalists warn Europe that if Turkey cannot enter into EU radical Islam will gain too much strenght. No this is not true. We have a deep rooted strong state and enough public support to preserve it in line with Ataturk's ideals and for the best benefits of people of Turkey. |
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erci
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1426 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 19:28 |
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Poirot thanks mate.We all know there are people who support
Turkey in Europe.but they are minority you know it, we know it.
One must be blind to see EU is the only solution.It's not.There are countries which not EU members, even in Europe and they do alright without it.What we will miss that only EU subsidies yet we did not recieve 1 cent so far. What you and even some Turks fail to see is that EU is a cultural and economical union found on Christian roots.(I don't mean a christian club)now culturely I don't accept myself as European nor I'm christian.that means I'm forcing myself where I don't belong, where I have no place.Our relations with Europe should have limits.Our dance was over some centuries ago and pushing it will make it worse.You can not start a Mercedes-Benz with Diesel oil.It will start for sure but it won't work right.I have no problem With European countries and I respect their desicion cos they have every right to defend their union. |
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"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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Seko
Emperor 
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 20:51 |
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I appreciate the sensible opinions that you all have expressed recently. Poirot, nice to hear of your courteous stance. Alp Arslan and Erci you have presented your views from the heart. You have my respect for that. As far as a war with Greece or Cyprus, I find that hard to imagine. Both countries have sensitive issues with eachother, but I do believe that without either one instigating any territorial aggression towards the other that those issues would be either left unresolved or only argued over. Whether Turkey is even accepted to the table (at this rate the Austrians won't accept it) or not is still tenuous. |
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erci
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1426 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:43 |
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I have respect for Austria, they
are the only ones who see the truth.They have more guts than those
other hypocrite EU countires hiding behind Austria to shout it out.Most
of them relieved after Austria's unwillingless
Edited by erci |
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"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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pikeshot1600
Tsar 
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 21:51 |
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There must be more to this "no to Turkey" among EU members than human rights. Dilution of influence in Europe of other Euro states; potential immigration from a Moslem country. Perhaps some economic issues, who knows? At any rate, the strategic implications for Europe are important. The snubbing of Turkey may start the unraveling of NATO. If so, the EU, with the lack of political will it has demonstrated, and the substantial disarming of it's constituent armed forces (both in the last decade), further isolates itself from North America as ally and strategic partner. Greco-Turkish and Balkan problems would be even more difficult to address. Turkey, certainly a critical ally of the U.S., may well move closer to central Asian and trans Caucasus states for issues of strategic and security interests. Memories are short in modern times. Although Russia is not now an important player in the present politics, and in the security issues of Europe, nothing says that won't change again....a matter of time, perhaps. With a resurgence of Russia, directed west or southwest, NATO might look good to some states again. Turkey has been important to NATO.
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 22:05 |
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well from Maju's explaination about the current EU union, i would say they aren't doing what they has to do. and dont think Turkey will benifit that much from that union. dont see why they want it so bad, they can be part of World Trad and be friends with Europe without being actully in the Union. so the advantages i noticed from this joining is that Turkey becomming more democratic which is good, but still not that democratic since they are pressuering their big religous community as we disscussed earlier in the thread
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erci
Chieftain
Joined: 22-Jun-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1426 |
Posted: 02-Oct-2005 at 22:15 |
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As far as I know, one of the condition of full membership is that Citizen of Turkey won't be able to reside or have work permit for 10-15 years within any European country after the acceptance.so we're talking about 25 to 30 years from now(with at least 10 years of negotiations) but until then how many Turkish citizen will want to go to Europe anyway? Economy somewhat will get better and there will be no reason to immigrate to Europe.so, that can't be the reason alone. Who knows what will Turkey do afterwards!Either form a new union or contunie you the road as now.I always felt European Union as a band aid of Europe.not stable, not strong, temporary.They will go their way and we should go our way Edited by erci |
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"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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Artaxiad
Baron 
Joined: 10-Aug-2004 Location: Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 488 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 00:13 |
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EU wants Turkey to recognize Cyprus. Does that mean recognizing the southern Greek part of Cyprus, or Cyprus as a whole? |
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Yiannis
Sultan 
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2329 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 04:01 |
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Recognize the legal government of the whole island, which is the Greek-Cypriot one. The Turkish north is not recognized by anyone (except Turkey), as illegal and the product of Turkish invasion. (Now, it would be good if the Turkish members would not start firing away, this is the legal explanation which is accepted by all internalional organiozations). Latest developments: no news, EU is still deadlocked after Austria's stance. Perhaps Austria wants to excange "yes to Turkey" with a "yes to Croatia" by the other members.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
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Maju
King
Joined: 14-Jul-2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6565 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 05:14 |
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That's the rumor (more or less) but Austrian tory government (and I think the population too) is also the one that more strongly opposes Turkey's full membership. They want to offer an open negotiation with diferent final posibilities: full membership or preferential association. This is something that Turkey won't accept, or so they say. I think it's an error to be discussing future expansions when we don't know what to do with the current EU. There's a strong danger of getting stuck. The logical thing should be to solve first the internal lack of cohesion and project and then look outside for new members that fit in the new reviewed frame. I don't think it is good to take this decission on reasonings such as we must demonstrate that there's no clash of civilizations or things like that... the so called "clash of civilizations" is something that the Anglo-Saxon bloc has created by means of keeping the Muslim world subjugated, I don't think that EU is here to put the pretty face that Washington and London don't want to show. And I don't think it is here to solve the internal problems of Turkey either, thought this could be a more reasonable objective provided it fits in the internal agenda of the existing EU, which should be prioritary. |
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NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
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Yiannis
Sultan
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2329 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 11:49 |
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Finally Austria has caved in and Turkey will now be able to start the long process. Perhaps after Del Ponte announced that Croatia is finally collaborating.
Some analysis on Turkey's dilemmas, concerning EU accession: http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901 051010-1112777,00.html?cnn=yes http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4302468.stm
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 12:03 |
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Yeah, that is a good question. Argentina is still recovering from a severe economic depression, plus they do not have any heavy industry. Regards |
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Jalisco Lancer
Sultan
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 07-Aug-2004 Location: Mexico Online Status: Offline Posts: 2112 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 12:11 |
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EU Reaches Deal on Talks With Turkey
By ROBERT WIELAARD, Associated Press Writer 37 minutes ago LUXEMBOURG - European Union nations reached a tentative agreement Monday on pursuing full membership talks with Turkey, diplomats said. A spokesman for the Turkish prime minister denied reports that Ankara had agreed to the deal. European Union foreign ministers were to give their official backing to the deal among the 25 member states, the diplomats said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks. No specific details were released about the deal, reached after hours of arduous talks. Turkish media reported that Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul approved the document and was preparing to leave for Luxembourg, but a spokesman for Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan denied that Turkey has agreed to the EU framework agreement. "Talks are continuing. There is no agreement yet," said Akif Beki, a spokesman for Erdogan. Austria has been demanding that Turkey be given lesser partnership rather than full membership. |
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Seko
Emperor
Spammer Joined: 01-Sep-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 8595 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 13:05 |
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According to Komnenos' observation of some reporting done people on the streets of Vienna, the Austrians are more-or-less saying that they do no want Turkey to enter due to the fact that the Ottomans tried to capture the city centuries ago. http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5905& ;PN=1 If that is the case, I hope this simple grievance could be put to sensible rest and old animosities would just wither away. |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
Posted: 03-Oct-2005 at 15:12 |
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Seko: As I am sure you have observed, the closer you get to the Balkans, the less likely it is that old animosities wither. Just something to be aware of, I suppose. |
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