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Darwinism On Trial In Kansas
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Spartakus View Drop Down
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Darwinism On Trial In Kansas
    Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 05:44
Darwinism On Trial In Kansas

If the board, as expected, adopts the standards next June, Kansas would join Ohio in requiring students be taught there is controversy over evolution.
Topeka, Kan. (UPI) Sep 06, 2005
Kansas is reportedly ready to approve teaching standards requiring Darwin's theory of evolution be challenged in the classroom.

In the first of three daylong hearings being referred to as a direct descendant of the 1925 Scopes Monkey Trial in Tennessee, academics testified last week about the flaws they see in mainstream science's explanation of the origins of life, The New York Times reported.

Defenders of Darwin's theory have refused to testify during the hearings, ordered by the Kansas State Board of education's conservative majority, the Times said. However, their lawyers pushed the other side into acknowledging nothing in the current standards prevents discussion of challenges to evolution.

If the board, as expected, adopts the standards next June, Kansas would join Ohio in requiring students be taught there is controversy over evolution.

One high school physics teacher, Cheryl Shepherd-Adams, took an unpaid day from teaching to attend the hearings. "Kansas has been through this before," she told the Times. "I'm really tired of going to conferences and being laughed at because I'm from Kansas."

By TerraDaily
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 16:59
Well they should be laughed at, they are an embarrasment to the nation.
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 17:14
The work of extremist religious fanatics is never funny... okay, this one is
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 20:51

What is wrong with people. I think the educated people should start pushing for Evolution to be preached in church.

Church is for religeon, school for education. Are these people that backwards to no have any common sense?
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 01:30
um, yes?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 06:37
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

What is wrong with people. I think the educated people should start pushing for Evolution to be preached in church.


excellent point!
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Posts: 3959 		  Quote eaglecap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 17:35
Spatakus why are you so concerned with what happens here?
I would oppose any particular religion being taught in public schools but the idea of intelligent design should be taught only as a possibility and then let the students do with it what they please. Also evolution should be taught as a theory and not a fact. Regardless of what we think of it, evolution is still only a theory.
I do not know why the evolutionist are so afraid this concept being taught in our schools.
But, even though you have the right to an opinion on this forum neither you or Mixcoatl have any right to influence our politicians on this issue since you are not citizens of the U.S.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 17:38
Regardless of what we think of it, evolution is still only a theory.

just like gravity.
Should we also teach children that there are fakirs in India who claim gravity doesn't exist?
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 17:52
Originally posted by eaglecap

Spatakus (...)

But, even though you have the right to an opinion on this forum neither you or Mixcoatl have any right to influence our politicians on this issue since you are not citizens of the U.S.




Yes, as citizens of the colonies of the USA, we demand our inalienble right to participate in USA elections, the same as Puerto Ricans and Navajos. After all if the US President is going to rule our countries we should have a say as much as the people of Oklahoma, I believe.

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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 18:17

eaglecap:I am interested in what happens in USA.For different reasons.Moreover,knowing that there are Americans here,i want to provide them with information.It's an article.I provide it,you judge it.It's not my opinion since i did not wrote that article.And how do you know,that i am not a citizen of USA?.Because i do not live there?
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Posts: 1838 		  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 19:40
 The only thing that humans have completely understood is thermodynamics.  We can teach alchemy too!  I have a very funny comic about William Jennings Bryan

Edited by poirot
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Posts: 1838 		  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 19:45
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Posts: 1027 		  Quote Anujkhamar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 08:10
Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Regardless of what we think of it, evolution is still only a theory.

just like gravity.
Should we also teach children that there are fakirs in India who claim gravity doesn't exist?


You can just imagine it now

*apple falls out of tree*

"it's all in your head..."


Edited by Anujkhamar
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 14:41

Originally posted by eaglecap

Also evolution should be taught as a theory and not a fact. Regardless of what we think of it, evolution is still only a theory.

 

'Evolution' is not a theory, it's an observable fact. There are many theories that explain evolution, whether reasonably scientific like Darwinism and related theories, or metaphysical like Intelligent Design.

But 'evolution' is not itself a theory: it is something that needs to be explained by a theory. 'Apples fall down' is not a theory.  One theory that explains why apples fall down in Newton's theory of gravitation.

'Survival of the fittest' is also not a theory, but in effect a logical necessity - a tautology. 'The fittest' is only definable as the one that survives: therefore it is logically necessary that the fittest survive.

Personally I favour teaching religion in schools as long as children are taught several of them, but I'd give that up like a shot in favour of teaching them English and how to think straight. So that they wouldn't say things like 'evolution is a theory'.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 14:42

Originally posted by poirot

 The only thing that humans have completely understood is thermodynamics. 

Speak for yourself.
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 18:09
People always say evolution is a theory, well then how do you discount the numerous sekeltons we have found documenteing most of the stages of human biological change? How do you account for insects near factories that have evolved smokescreen colored wings?  How do you account for the existence of Neanderthals?  All these things are definitive proof of at least some kind of evolution.
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Posts: 2728 		  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 18:16

'Evolution' is not a theory, it's an observable fact. There are many theories that explain evolution, whether reasonably scientific like Darwinism and related theories, or metaphysical like Intelligent Design.

But 'evolution' is not itself a theory: it is something that needs to be explained by a theory. 'Apples fall down' is not a theory.  One theory that explains why apples fall down in Newton's theory of gravitation.

'Survival of the fittest' is also not a theory, but in effect a logical necessity - a tautology. 'The fittest' is only definable as the one that survives: therefore it is logically necessary that the fittest survive.

Personally I favour teaching religion in schools as long as children are taught several of them, but I'd give that up like a shot in favour of teaching them English and how to think straight. So that they wouldn't say things like 'evolution is a theory'.

I was going to say the samething on the theory, only you explained far better then I could.

But on religeon being taught in school, I can't agree with that. If it was ever to be taught, it should be in a historical way only, like talking about how a religeon influenced say the Byzantines and maybe why they decided to adopt it.

Religeon is just a life style, and life styles if in education should be more towards a historical view point if anything. Religeon and mans imagination that causes mythology have no place in anything of science. Evolution is taught because it explains where we are from, because we can watch living things change and evolve in a microscope, because their is skeletal evidence and DNA linking evidence of other species that further along the idea of evolution. The only thing we have to support Creationism, and is far from living evidence are holy books, organized religeon, and cults and whatever else there is. All Creationism is, is faith and education is about whats in the world. Church is where creationism belongs and should stay.
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 21:31
Yes, SearchAndDestroy, good point. The only schools that creationism should be taught in are Catholic Schools.

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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2005 at 22:42
Originally posted by Emperor Barbarossa

Yes, SearchAndDestroy, good point. The only schools that creationism should be taught in are Catholic Schools.


Actually Catholics don't make much noise with creationism, they seem to be more worried about the Big Bang. Creationism is specially a Protestant obsession, because Protestantism tends to interpretate all the Bible by the letter, something that Catholics don't do, at least nowadays.

In fact I spent much time in a Catholic school myself and they always said that the story of the Genesis was a metaphore, that we shouldn't take it literally.


Edited by Maju

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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Sep-2005 at 06:14
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

But on religeon being taught in school, I can't agree with that. If it was ever to be taught, it should be in a historical way only, like talking about how a religeon influenced say the Byzantines and maybe why they decided to adopt it.

Since I co-wrote a school textbook on comparative religion I probably count as biassed.

Teaching religious development as part of history (or anthropology, if schools teach that nowadays) is certainly fine. Doing it as part of geography would be a good way too.

However I do believe that people should have accurate information about what members of various faiths believe, and that goal is better met by teaching it formally rather than allowing children just to pick up biassed and wrong information from here there and anywhere. No child should be exposed to the teaching of only one religion.

I can see there's maybe a constitutional problem with that in the US public schools.

Of course none of this should go on in science classes.



Edited by gcle2003
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